My Thoughs on This Past Week's Big Issue(s)
Oct 21, 2004 at 6:55 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 160
This past week there has been a lot of discussion about Singlepower, in large part because there are, I believe, approximately 200 members who own Singlepower products, and, for the first time, photographs of the inside of a Singlepower amp (an MPX3 in this case) were posted.

There are, in my opinion, valid questions raised by those photos, and I think we've covered the lot of them. In large part, it's up to Singlepower to answer most of those questions, on this forum or by other means, if they choose to. Of course, the opinions of those members who have technical experience who've reviewed the photos might make for helpful discussion, too, and, from what I've seen, already has at times.

As for what class Singlepower amps run in: I have seen no proof one way or the other. I'd rather not see it debated ad nauseam unless someone, from either side of this argument, has proof, one way or the other, that Singlepower amps do or don't run class A, or are or aren't single-ended. If you're just going to jaw at each other without proof, save it for another place. Of course, at their option, Singlepower could also elect to comment more about this on the forums, which may or may not be helpful to the discussion.

Regarding the issues of patent(s) pending: From what I understand, one can't claim "patent pending" until the patent is on file with the USPTO. However, I have seen no proof so far that proves whether or not Singlepower's claims of patent(s) pending are valid or not. So, once again, we can debate this until the cows come home without proof either way (which many of you seem apt to want to do), or we can wait and see if (a) someone who knows for sure wants to explain it, or (b) see if a patent filing does eventually show up, to see the date of the filing relative to the claims of such. As someone stated, it can take quite some time for a filing to become visible on search (if someone knows otherwise, then please say so). Again, Singlepower could also elect to answer this on the forums at their option, which may or may not be helpful in the context of this discussion.

Regarding 6Moons: Let me say first that I really enjoy reading 6Moons. Any suggestions that they should investigate every single claim a manufacturer makes to them is, in my opinion, ridiculous. If an amp manufacturer tells me his amp runs class A, or tells me he has patents pending, I would usually be inclined to believe him. Now, if any of what that amp manufacturer tells me proves not to be true, then the fault, in my opinion, lies with the manufacturer for providing incorrect information. Is that what happened here? Again, I haven't seen any proof of it yet (see my previous two paragraphs). Do I think Srajan should have posted that open letter to his readers? I don't know what information he received, or from whom he received it, so I won't comment on that.

If you have photos you want to post that are relevant to this discussion, then it's up to you to post them for discussion if you wish to.

I will say that recently (not long before all of this happened this past week) Singlepower explicitly requested that I not allow internal photos of Singlepower amps to be posted by anyone, and it was a request I respectfully told the manufacturer I would not grant. I will also say that the manufacturer, in making that request, told me about patent(s) pending as one of the reasons for the request. At this point, I don't know if any patent has been filed by the manufacturer. Sooner or later, any patent filing becomes available via online search, and if and when such a filing appears, then we'll know whether or not a patent was filed before I was told that at least one patent was pending (I was provided no details of what was apparently being patented).

Here's what I'd appreciate from the members of the community: Don't let the discussion devolve into petty arguments about things for which there's no proof. If the technically inclined wish to offer opinions about the construction of Singlepower amps based on the current or future photos -- or any other amps for that matter -- than go ahead and state your opinions as your opinions, unless, of course, you have proof to state them as facts. Again, I do feel that the photographs that were posted do raise valid questions, and civilized discussion about them should not be that difficult.

Here's what I'd also appreciate: Don't write off valid questions as the pursuit of a witch hunt -- I've seen that happen over the last several days a lot. If, in response to valid questions, that's all that you have to say, then don't bother posting it. If more internal photos are posted (and I wouldn't be surprised if we see more in the future), please don't resort to the witch-hunt accusations in response. If you think something that someone posted is witch-hunt-like, then contact me (and/or other moderators you feel comfortable with) directly via PM. I may or may not respond (I get a lot of messages, so don't be offended if I don't respond), but if I (or the other moderators you contact) agree with you, then something will be done about it.

There, I think that about covers my opinions on this. If I have anything else to add, I'll post again in this thread.
 
Oct 21, 2004 at 7:58 PM Post #4 of 160
I haven't really been tracking this issue, but Jude's post is, as usual, very rational (i.e. very Cartesian!!
biggrin.gif
) Way to go, Jude.
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 12:45 AM Post #6 of 160
It seems to me that we're no further along now in this Singlepower controversy then we were from day 1. I admit I've been following this topic with great interest, and one thing that I have concluded is that NOTHING is conclusive. Until there are some cold hard facts presented in regards to the issues at hand, I doubt if anything will ever be resolved. I really question if this forum is even an appropiate format to even TRY to resolve these complex issues, even the "experts" seem to be confused at times, so how in hell are us "laymen" going to be able to sort it all out?
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 1:25 AM Post #7 of 160
Quote:

Originally Posted by GlowWorm
It seems to me that we're no further along now in this Singlepower controversy then we were from day 1. I admit I've been following this topic with great interest, and one thing that I have concluded is that NOTHING is conclusive. Until there are some cold hard facts presented in regards to the issues at hand, I doubt if anything will ever be resolved. I really question if this forum is even an appropiate format to even TRY to resolve these complex issues, even the "experts" seem to be confused at times, so how in hell are us "laymen" going to be able to sort it all out?


You don't. It's been kicked around, diesected, rationalized, picked appart, nitpicked, praised, condemed, ect. Now it's time for us to give it a rest, buckup and go home.
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 8:36 AM Post #10 of 160
I have been following these discussions with some interest, have no axe to grind in either direction.
One thing that does puzzle me is in reguard to the issue of publishing photos and patent pending( and I suppose possible piracy of ideas)
Surely once a product is out in the market place on commercial release all a compeditor/copier has to do is purchase the item and have a free reign to disect/test the product at their leisure, much better than trying to get the information via photos on the internet.
If there're patents you want to register the time to do it would be before general release , or are the time spans involved in this so lengthy as to make this unrealistic.

The photos and some of the information coming out have been helpful to someone like myself, well outside the USA looking at a Singlepower amp.
Going by the wiring layout it could be very difficult to get a repair done at a local audio shop and return shipping costs to Singlepower could be in the region of $200 for me(based on a rough shipping estimate to me some months back). I know at this stage the amps have a very good reliability record but if I'm going to layout close to $2000(my currency) I would like to have not only longterm reliabilty but a product that I have at least some chance of repair locally.

I've been a service manager for a Honda Motorcycle franchise for many years and I know that even the biggest get it wrong sometimes but the best way to rectify any perceived problem is through prompt action, either clearly and desicively correcting erroneous information or by admitting to a mistake and and carrying out the necessary modifications needed.
Like many others following these threads I wish that Singlepower had given a more definitive answer to the questions raised.There have been tecnical questions raised which deserve more complete answers.

I am not comdeming Singlepower, I love the extenal looks of their amps and would really like to hear one but one way or another the means of settling this debate is in their hands.
.
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 1:27 PM Post #11 of 160
Better than buying one just ask for a unit to audition.

I believe all the original designer would have to do to prove it’s his design is show prior work. We keep dated and signed engineering notebooks in an effort to establish the design history in the event we have something worth filing a patent for.

The pictures show only a small part of the power supply. These in no way compromise any aspects of the design yet an effort was made to suppress even these.


Mitch
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 3:04 PM Post #12 of 160
Although I may be wrong, it seems that everyone who has criticized the SinglePower amps does not own one. Have any negative comments been made by owners of these amps?
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 3:11 PM Post #13 of 160
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg
Although I may be wrong, it seems that everyone who has criticized the SinglePower amps does not own one. Have any negative comments been made by owners of these amps?


Mike, with all due respect, I think the point you're trying to make, and the question you're asking (quoted above), is irrelevant to the discussion.

I think the photos posted (taken by lextek and trevornetwork) raised valid questions, and one need not be an owner to have valid questions about them.
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 3:14 PM Post #14 of 160
Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeg
Although I may be wrong, it seems that everyone who has criticized the SinglePower amps does not own one. Have any negative comments been made by owners of these amps?



Although I can see what you are getting at - Singlepower owners dont necessarily have sole rights towards being concerned. Actually you should be concerned more than the "potential customers" because at least - they - still have the choice - you dont because you already made it.

Now I am not saying anything against of for singlepower but it does have certain issues that havent been clearly dealt with in Mikhails statement. I really like the guy but some of the issues have been skirted skillfully. I can understand the concerns of the overseas buyer...even as a local customer - if 10-15 years down the line singlepower is out of business - it will be near impossible to get these amps fixed because of the nature of the construction inside.

There is no reason to take this personally - in this thread and in several other threads, singlepower owners constantly ask the people who ask questions "Do you have an amp? Why are you concerned if you dont have one" and THIS I think is a lame line of questioning that needs to stop.
 
Oct 22, 2004 at 3:29 PM Post #15 of 160
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari
"Do you have an amp? Why are you concerned if you dont have one" and THIS I think is a lame line of questioning that needs to stop.


My asking "how many of you people that are making such a big deal out of all these things are Singlepower customers or have been considering buying a Singlepower amp? If you're not either why do you care so much?" was not rhetorical it was because I'm genuinely interested in hearing the answer.
 

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