Im not sure how it compares to the RU6; keep in mind Zeos goes off when he's manic and finds a new toy, and was on one of his fabuluos conviction laced tirades where he waved the monolith across the table to whatever other DAC/AMP portable happened to be around, and just said "THis is better than that, better than this this that this.." lol
My "subjective" experience with AKM vs ESS DAC chip "sound signature".
- Thread starter JayNetTech5
- Start date
KaiFi
500+ Head-Fier
It’d be interesting to see how Burr Brown compares.
It’s too bad that AKM DACs are less available and ESS almost has a monopoly at this point…
It’s too bad that AKM DACs are less available and ESS almost has a monopoly at this point…
originalsnuffy
Headphoneus Supremus
AKM is back in the game and I bet the next wave of new toys will have many AKM options.
I have the FIIO Q3 MQA with AKM and THX and I am very satisfied. A bit of a learning curve at first, then it became reliable.
I have the FIIO Q3 MQA with AKM and THX and I am very satisfied. A bit of a learning curve at first, then it became reliable.
Interesting to see other folks responses. After trying a few chip based DAC’s like the W2 ( CS43198) and Shanling M6 pro 21 (ES9068AS) decided for home system to go with the Ares 2 R2R and find it‘s sound quality much better than the chip based dac’s I have tried.
The Shanling M6 isn’t bad and once I added a Oriolus BA300s portable tube amp to it makes for a good sounding portable setup.
Just picked up the WiiM Pro streamer and it has Burr-Brown PCM5121 DAC chip. Listen to it briefly and wasn’t very impressed with it. I bought it to stream and since bypassing the dac in the wiim pro no big deal.
Personally they’re just something with the Ares 2 R2R Dac sound I enjoy that I didn’t find in a chip based dac.
The Shanling M6 isn’t bad and once I added a Oriolus BA300s portable tube amp to it makes for a good sounding portable setup.
Just picked up the WiiM Pro streamer and it has Burr-Brown PCM5121 DAC chip. Listen to it briefly and wasn’t very impressed with it. I bought it to stream and since bypassing the dac in the wiim pro no big deal.
Personally they’re just something with the Ares 2 R2R Dac sound I enjoy that I didn’t find in a chip based dac.
That's called Plankton. Tiny micro-graduation in the loudness of the timbre of instruments that makes it sound as if you're transported to an illusionary room
Postme
New Head-Fier
Hi there
Searching on the Web for some information about the differences between ESS and AKM DAC's I came across this thread.
Thanks for starting the thread because I've enjoyed all the replies and comments about the toppic very much.
I know it's called a subjective way of comparing these two DAC's but I want to share an other find about this topic on the well respected forum 'Audio Science Review'
You can find it here AKM vs ESS
Yes it's a lot of tech talk, figures, stats and numbers but it's also a very honest way of comparing two allmost identical DAC's with the ESS and AKM chips in it.
No it tells us nothing about the sound signatures ....if there even is any.
Beacause I am on the verge of choosing a new DAC and my choice is going to be between the Topping E70 (ESS) and the Topping E70V (AKM) I am very curious about the differences between them. These are also virtualy identical DAC exept for the chips in them.
Unfortunately I haven't found any reviews or measurements about them yet.
Especialy I am curious for the subjective listening reviews compared to the some more objective measurements.
Searching on the Web for some information about the differences between ESS and AKM DAC's I came across this thread.
Thanks for starting the thread because I've enjoyed all the replies and comments about the toppic very much.
I know it's called a subjective way of comparing these two DAC's but I want to share an other find about this topic on the well respected forum 'Audio Science Review'
You can find it here AKM vs ESS
Yes it's a lot of tech talk, figures, stats and numbers but it's also a very honest way of comparing two allmost identical DAC's with the ESS and AKM chips in it.
No it tells us nothing about the sound signatures ....if there even is any.
Beacause I am on the verge of choosing a new DAC and my choice is going to be between the Topping E70 (ESS) and the Topping E70V (AKM) I am very curious about the differences between them. These are also virtualy identical DAC exept for the chips in them.
Unfortunately I haven't found any reviews or measurements about them yet.
Especialy I am curious for the subjective listening reviews compared to the some more objective measurements.
Loftprojection
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I have yet to ear a R2R DAC but for me ESS is not my cup of tea and I have tried a few different equipment with it, Burrbrown and Wolfson are more my cup of tea but not nirvana. I agree with a lot that is written here about ESS, it can be fun, detailed but too digital sounding to my ears. Sony and Chord have their own house sound DACs, to me Chord Mojo leans on the side of ESS sound signature but with less aggressive highs. Sony DAPs (I have ZX507 and WM1A-M2) with their DSEE processors sound great but somehow darker, detailed but also less aggressive in the highs.
All this said, the love and smile of satisfaction arrives on my face when I listen to old NOS chip DACs. I have heard a couple and I own the MHDT Orchid. I don't know what it is with those old NOS chips but somehow, to my ears, they have a way to present the highs that you don't find on new chips, whichever the manufacturer.
All this said, the love and smile of satisfaction arrives on my face when I listen to old NOS chip DACs. I have heard a couple and I own the MHDT Orchid. I don't know what it is with those old NOS chips but somehow, to my ears, they have a way to present the highs that you don't find on new chips, whichever the manufacturer.
Im very curious about checking out a R2R DAC...I heard of them, and know they are considered a whole other level than most AKM ESS topics go.
Im glad this thread is blowing up, as its a highly sought after topic. The fact that most people (including trained musicans/sound technicians), are said to fail double blind tests comparing the two, the very rare .01% of those who CAN tell the difference have one thing in common, that luckily most of us can experiment with. I read an interview where the guy who said he was one of the those .01%, mentioned there was a particular song he uses as his frame of rerefence ,that has notiously hard to reprodce, and that he could tell which DAC was which every single time.
I was trying to look for that inerview to link it here but cannot find it. Maybe someone here read it and can correct me, but I beleive it was the kind of song that was not only the favorite he'd loved since a teen, but that he knew every single note and instrumental intricacy. He used only a ESS DAC for 2 months, just really meditating and becoming totally trascendedant with the song, which by now, he admitted he mustve listened to a few hundred thousand times in his life. Then after the 2 months he went with a AKM version of the very same manufacturer, and that the differences were so clearly obvious. The AKM reproduced the sound to a perfection he would have never known existed. I beleive after a few months he switched exclusive to a Brown and Burr and even back to the ESS.
Anyhow, since I got curious to see if I can do it, Im just going to pick a single song that I know better than any other and try to do what he did.
Usualy when i test IEMs, or DAPS, I use the follwing list of songs, due to either to their very peculiar sound and amazingly recorded equipment:
1. Blue Angel "Maybe He'll Know" (Cyndi Lauper's first band- late 50's style teen beat wop)
2. Paul Simon "Kodachrome"
3. Angelic Upstrarts "Woman in Disguise" (Oi! band from England- very big musical evolution here, probably best recorded song from them)
4. David Bowie "Ashes to Ashes"
6. The Shivvers "Teen Line" (Obscure Milwaukee 50's styled 80's pop)
7. Freshies "Dancin' Doctors" (Obscure power pop band from late 70's from the UK)
8. Vinnie Monte "Trail of Teardrops" (Obscure early 60 tean beat boo-wop crooner)
9. Smiths "I Know it's Over"
10. Flans "Corre en el Boulevard". (Obscure 80's pop mexican/female vox)
Im glad this thread is blowing up, as its a highly sought after topic. The fact that most people (including trained musicans/sound technicians), are said to fail double blind tests comparing the two, the very rare .01% of those who CAN tell the difference have one thing in common, that luckily most of us can experiment with. I read an interview where the guy who said he was one of the those .01%, mentioned there was a particular song he uses as his frame of rerefence ,that has notiously hard to reprodce, and that he could tell which DAC was which every single time.
I was trying to look for that inerview to link it here but cannot find it. Maybe someone here read it and can correct me, but I beleive it was the kind of song that was not only the favorite he'd loved since a teen, but that he knew every single note and instrumental intricacy. He used only a ESS DAC for 2 months, just really meditating and becoming totally trascendedant with the song, which by now, he admitted he mustve listened to a few hundred thousand times in his life. Then after the 2 months he went with a AKM version of the very same manufacturer, and that the differences were so clearly obvious. The AKM reproduced the sound to a perfection he would have never known existed. I beleive after a few months he switched exclusive to a Brown and Burr and even back to the ESS.
Anyhow, since I got curious to see if I can do it, Im just going to pick a single song that I know better than any other and try to do what he did.
Usualy when i test IEMs, or DAPS, I use the follwing list of songs, due to either to their very peculiar sound and amazingly recorded equipment:
1. Blue Angel "Maybe He'll Know" (Cyndi Lauper's first band- late 50's style teen beat wop)
2. Paul Simon "Kodachrome"
3. Angelic Upstrarts "Woman in Disguise" (Oi! band from England- very big musical evolution here, probably best recorded song from them)
4. David Bowie "Ashes to Ashes"
6. The Shivvers "Teen Line" (Obscure Milwaukee 50's styled 80's pop)
7. Freshies "Dancin' Doctors" (Obscure power pop band from late 70's from the UK)
8. Vinnie Monte "Trail of Teardrops" (Obscure early 60 tean beat boo-wop crooner)
9. Smiths "I Know it's Over"
10. Flans "Corre en el Boulevard". (Obscure 80's pop mexican/female vox)
Last edited:
emklap
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There are reviews comparing the topping E70 and E70V.
Here is one.
https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/topping-e70v-velvet.26322/reviews#review-30093
Here is what ChatGPT3 Had to say about the differences to the human ear: AKM vs ESS:
"It is unlikely that the human ear can reliably tell the difference between music played with an AKM DAC or ESS DAC. Both AKM and ESS produce high-quality digital-to-analog converters that are capable of producing high-fidelity sound.
In most cases, the differences between DACs are subtle and require sophisticated audio equipment and trained listeners to discern. Additionally, the differences between DACs are often overshadowed by other factors in the audio chain, such as the quality of the audio source, amplification, and speakers or headphones.
That being said, some individuals with highly trained ears and extensive experience in audio production and engineering may be able to detect subtle differences between AKM and ESS DACs. However, for the vast majority of listeners, the differences between these two DACs are likely to be negligible."
Damn, I want to believe that the AKM sound is "velvety" dammit.
"It is unlikely that the human ear can reliably tell the difference between music played with an AKM DAC or ESS DAC. Both AKM and ESS produce high-quality digital-to-analog converters that are capable of producing high-fidelity sound.
In most cases, the differences between DACs are subtle and require sophisticated audio equipment and trained listeners to discern. Additionally, the differences between DACs are often overshadowed by other factors in the audio chain, such as the quality of the audio source, amplification, and speakers or headphones.
That being said, some individuals with highly trained ears and extensive experience in audio production and engineering may be able to detect subtle differences between AKM and ESS DACs. However, for the vast majority of listeners, the differences between these two DACs are likely to be negligible."
Damn, I want to believe that the AKM sound is "velvety" dammit.
Loftprojection
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Don't sweat too much, ChatGPT gets most of its content out of fake news!
JayNetTech5
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What do any of you think of the Cirrus Logic CS43131?
KSB1978
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While many people absolutely believe in measurements, I believe humans are able to perceive some extremely subtle differences.
We also don't know what exactly makes up things like "soundstage". There's been a heap of studies trying to get at the measurements and it's been linked that treble clarity has an influence on the soundstage, no one has got to the bottom of how width, depth and height of soundstage can be influenced.
When we are in a position like this, how can anyone possibly say "measurement only shows slight difference, so people won't perceive it"?
To me, AKM sounds smoother than ESS. I don't like the treble forward presentation of ESS chips. There are good ESS DACs out there, but in general, I have liked almost every DAC with AKM chip in it, while I have only liked several ESS DACs I've heard out of so many.
I'm glad AKM is back in production after the massive delays (since their main factory burnt down) and I'm looking forward to more DACs coming out with the new AKM4499EX chips.
We also don't know what exactly makes up things like "soundstage". There's been a heap of studies trying to get at the measurements and it's been linked that treble clarity has an influence on the soundstage, no one has got to the bottom of how width, depth and height of soundstage can be influenced.
When we are in a position like this, how can anyone possibly say "measurement only shows slight difference, so people won't perceive it"?
To me, AKM sounds smoother than ESS. I don't like the treble forward presentation of ESS chips. There are good ESS DACs out there, but in general, I have liked almost every DAC with AKM chip in it, while I have only liked several ESS DACs I've heard out of so many.
I'm glad AKM is back in production after the massive delays (since their main factory burnt down) and I'm looking forward to more DACs coming out with the new AKM4499EX chips.
Ghoostknight
500+ Head-Fier
im happy with the ESS implementation of my recently bought aune x8, i choose it because its a somewhat cheap very good dac with some "audiophile" features you wont find in other dacs: op amp switchable, reconstruction filter selectable, FPGA implementation, balanced out
i think for the price it has many great features and i also really like it sound wise to the dacs i had before (tho they were rather cheap, fiio e10k and topping d10)
but because many people report AKM chips sounding better im really curious.... i will probably try to get my next dac with a AKM chip
i think its also great that there are options and that not the whole industry is build around one chip manufacture
without ever heared a AKM chip, i kinda believe people that report AKM chips sounding different, so many things matter or atleast have slight audible differences where objectivists say it doesnt matter that i think its just unlikely that AKM and ESS produce the exact same output
one point that also gets me curious... many if not all people that say there is a difference report a more smoothness of high frequency where ESS sounds kinda harsh and actually high frequencys is most of the time the only thing im really struggling with, it was worse before with other dacs and the aune x8 is already alot smoother in high frequencys but it still bothers me sometimes with stuff like sibilance
can someone recommend a AKM dac? balanced out is kinda a must, opamp switching would be really nice but kinda unlikely, it shouldnt be too expensive... max 300-500€
maybe its also a good idea to wait a year or so till "next-gen" akm dacs hit the market as production started again
i think for the price it has many great features and i also really like it sound wise to the dacs i had before (tho they were rather cheap, fiio e10k and topping d10)
but because many people report AKM chips sounding better im really curious.... i will probably try to get my next dac with a AKM chip
i think its also great that there are options and that not the whole industry is build around one chip manufacture
without ever heared a AKM chip, i kinda believe people that report AKM chips sounding different, so many things matter or atleast have slight audible differences where objectivists say it doesnt matter that i think its just unlikely that AKM and ESS produce the exact same output
one point that also gets me curious... many if not all people that say there is a difference report a more smoothness of high frequency where ESS sounds kinda harsh and actually high frequencys is most of the time the only thing im really struggling with, it was worse before with other dacs and the aune x8 is already alot smoother in high frequencys but it still bothers me sometimes with stuff like sibilance
can someone recommend a AKM dac? balanced out is kinda a must, opamp switching would be really nice but kinda unlikely, it shouldnt be too expensive... max 300-500€
maybe its also a good idea to wait a year or so till "next-gen" akm dacs hit the market as production started again
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