My six-year-old daughter flawlessly passed a blind test between a silver-plated wire and a copper one
Nov 28, 2023 at 1:35 PM Post #91 of 480
if all the specs are below the threshold of audibility, mixing and matching won’t matter. The only part that varies are the transducers. You have to find cans with a frequency response that sounds good to you and match them with an amp with a sympathetic impedance.
And even if by some fluke you managed to use a cable that had a characteristic impedance that was a good match for amp and transducers it’s still impossible to claim that whatever the cable is made of is somehow “better” or different than another … just happened to be a “better fit” … someone else reading silver cables are better might find the exact opposite, or no difference at all …
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 1:55 PM Post #92 of 480
Unless I am wildly missing something in my understanding, and feel free to correct me if that is the case, the impedance of the cable is immaterial to the amplifier and, except for outlier cases like the Campfire Andromeda, it is also immaterial to the headphone or IEM.

Unless a cable has something wrong with it the impedance will be measured in small parts of an ohm and neither the amplifier nor the headphone will know the difference between the cables connecting the two, 0.05 versus 0.1 ohm doesn't matter to either the amplifier or the headphone.
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:00 PM Post #93 of 480
we started by discussing whether my, or the young daughters of others, can identify without any doubt that a silver signal cable sounds different from a copper one... and we concluded that dining on caviar and champagne is exactly the same as eating pasta and beans. And whoever says otherwise must take a bath in humility. Sin. Unfortunately it is a question of point of view and points of view are like ears and head: everyone has their own. Old story, nothing new, it's been fine for decades and we'll end it here. But some constructive contribution would have been interesting. Now I have to go out and I'm in doubt whether with the Ferrari 488 or with the Smart. No problem. They are absolutely the same. I'm relieved.

Except that there is a scientific quantifiable difference between caviar and pasta and your 488 and Smart and human senses are sufficiently reliably determine the differences every time sighted comparison or not.

Not so much with a silver cable versus a copper cable because scientifically the differences are measurable but the result of the differences are below the threshold of human hearing. Unless of course scientists have never thought to study the hearing of 6 year old kids.
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 2:00 PM Post #94 of 480
Unless I am wildly missing something in my understanding, and feel free to correct me if that is the case, the impedance of the cable is immaterial to the amplifier and, except for outlier cases like the Campfire Andromeda, it is also immaterial to the headphone or IEM.

...or very long runs of speaker cable. ("long" meaning a hundred yards or more.) You're right that it isn't something that most home audio fans are ever going to run into.

To be honest, I think sometimes folks in sound science put too much emphasis on exceptions to the rule. We end up spending 80% of our time discussing things that the average hifi nut will never experience themselves. That can give inexperienced folks who only half understand what is being said a skewed view on the reality of the situation. Footnotes are generally in an appendix at the back of the book so they don't detract from the main point being made in the body of the book.
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 2:04 PM Post #95 of 480
we started by discussing whether my, or the young daughters of others, can identify without any doubt that a silver signal cable sounds different from a copper one... and we concluded that dining on caviar and champagne is exactly the same as eating pasta and beans. And whoever says otherwise must take a bath in humility. Sin. Unfortunately it is a question of point of view and points of view are like ears and head: everyone has their own. Old story, nothing new, it's been fine for decades and we'll end it here. But some constructive contribution would have been interesting. Now I have to go out and I'm in doubt whether with the Ferrari 488 or with the Smart. No problem. They are absolutely the same. I'm relieved.

This isn't a constructive comment, and it's blather like this that makes me dismiss you as a troll.

we started by discussing whether my, or the young daughters of others, can identify without any doubt that a silver signal cable sounds different from a copper one...

By the way, you might be posting under the wrong account. Dragonmilenario is the account that supposedly had the daughter who could discern silver from copper, not Riccioli30. You might want to go back and fix that. The admins don't look kindly on sock puppetry.

As we say in Spain, "qualcuno che finge di essere qualcun altro".

EDIT: Oh nice. I see in the user list viewing this thread that you switched back.
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 2:22 PM Post #96 of 480
This isn't a constructive comment, and it's blather like this that makes me dismiss you as a troll.



By the way, you might be posting under the wrong account. Dragonmilenario is the account that supposedly had the daughter who could discern silver from copper. You might want to go back and fix that. The admins don't look kindly on sock puppetry.
Come on, man, relax. I guess the other user is speaking in general or impersonal.

Really, some people see ghosts everywhere.
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:24 PM Post #97 of 480
uh huh...

Really, some people see ghosts everywhere.

My six year old daughter sees dead people.
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 2:32 PM Post #98 of 480
uh huh...



My six year old daughter sees dead people.
Very mature…

Going back to what I asked before that among so much nonsense has gone unnoticed.

What tests can be done to a headphone that demonstrate the sensations we hear as more realistic timbre, more clarity and separation of instruments, more natural voices, spatial sensation ... etc? With a frequency response it is not possible as there are headphones that have a similar response but there is a world of quality between them.
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:33 PM Post #99 of 480
Come on, man, relax. I guess the other user is speaking in general or impersonal.

Really, some people see ghosts everywhere.

Maybe, maybe not ..... I saw similarities between different users on an audio Facebook page and observed over time that apparently different people were the same person, this guy occasionally shared the same photo under different names. He would start a thread then have a conversation with himself under his different names.

Giving you the benefit of the doubt here but there are crackpots all over the internet that maybe you haven't stumbled upon, that in part is why people a quick to point out that you might actually be simply full of sh..t and are making this all up.
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:35 PM Post #100 of 480
Aside the feeling of "audiophiles" who perceive a bigger stage with a bigger amp, or more brightness with a silver cable (because it's color is brighter compared to a cooper one :relieved:)... There is one aspect that people don't comment a lot and is "the mood"...

Some times I'm in the mood to listen to one kind of music and it will sound spectacular with the same source, DAC/AMP, pair of headphones and cable and other times I can't stand that kind of music...

De todos modos, DragonMilenario, mi hija, también de seis años, podría hacer la prueba... pero paso de gastar dinero en cables... De hecho, cambié el original de los HD 800, que se me rompió, por uno de Aliexpress de 20 €... y SORPRENDENTEMENTE, al principio noté la escena sonora más reducida... lo que hace la mente...
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:36 PM Post #101 of 480
What tests can be done to a headphone that demonstrate the sensations we hear as more realistic timbre, more clarity and separation of instruments, more natural voices, spatial sensation ... etc?

Asked and answered...

One thing you might want to think about is focusing your language a bit. Audiophiles use vague terminology like "resolving" and "layers". People who know how audio works refer to specifics of frequency response, distortion, dynamics and time. For instance, you mention cans that are more "resolving" which doesn't tell me much at all, but you mention a response dip at 2kHz, which is the range where the human ear is most sensitive. Small deviations in that area can make big differences. But to know that, you have to know what 2kHz sounds like, what part of the music occupies that range, and how human ears hear those frequencies. If you're actually interested in that, you could post a link to the two sets of measurements (it needs to be two sets measured by the same person because different people apply different compensation corrections) and ask for people to chime in and help you interpret those graphs. But if you're going to ask that, you shouldn't argue with them, especially if you don't know what you're talking about and they do.

I just realized I left out one other parameter in the list of the terminology used by people who know how audio works... noise level.
 
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Nov 28, 2023 at 2:42 PM Post #102 of 480
There is one aspect that people don't comment a lot and is "the mood"... Some times I'm in the mood to listen to one kind of music and it will sound spectacular with the same source, DAC/AMP, pair of headphones and cable and other times I can't stand that kind of music...

That doesn't have anything to do with the wire, DAC, amp or headphones. It has to do with you. A lot of high end audio reviews do refer to this kind of stuff though. I call those "Solipsistic Reviewers". Their reviews only apply to one person at one particular point in time. It's not really necessary to even post them for other people to read.
 
Nov 28, 2023 at 2:54 PM Post #105 of 480
That is the purpose of this group. I'm glad you're beginning to figure it out. This isn't about winning an argument, it's about sharing information. If you didn't cling to you misconceptions so tightly, you'd have a lot less problems. It isn't polite to be silent and allow people to make mistakes, and it isn't rude to point out the truth. But you have to be receptive to information and not reject it out of hand because it doesn't fit your mistaken preconceptions.

Yes headphones do sound different from each other. Even two copies of the same make and model can sound different due to manufacturing tolerances. And yes, those differences can be measured. There are many sources of that info. But you have to know how to interpret the graphs. Transducers are mechanical and produce physical sound. That is a LOT more difficult to do accurately than to pass an electronic signal from point A to point B. Digital audio has solved the problems of fidelity when it comes to amps, DACs and players. The electronics are easy. The wild card are the transducers. There are good headphones and bad ones, and what might work well for your particular ears may not work well for someone else's.

If you want optimal sound, just going by your gut feelings isn't going to get you there. Random selection produces random results. You have to gather together real information, do your homework, and proceed with a logical strategy to reach your goals. You don't do that by throwing up your hands and focusing on your feelings. You do that by talking to people who know how things work and prioritizing what matters over things that just don't matter at all.

One thing you might want to think about is focusing your language a bit. Audiophiles use vague terminology like "resolving" and "layers". People who know how audio works refer to specifics of frequency response, distortion, dynamics and time. For instance, you mention cans that are more "resolving" which doesn't tell me much at all, but you mention a response dip at 2kHz, which is the range where the human ear is most sensitive. Small deviations in that area can make big differences. But to know that, you have to know what 2kHz sounds like, what part of the music occupies that range, and how human ears hear those frequencies. If you're actually interested in that, you could post a link to the two sets of measurements (it needs to be two sets measured by the same person because different people apply different compensation corrections) and ask for people to chime in and help you interpret those graphs. But if you're going to ask that, you shouldn't argue with them, especially if you don't know what you're talking about and they do.

It would also help to talk about one thing at a time. It frustrates us to explain things only to have our explanations ignored, and questions about three more completely different subjects heaped on top of the pile. We want to be able to answer a question, and any other questions you might have on that subject, before moving on to something else. When you flit from subject to subject to try to justify your subjective feelings, it makes it unrewarding for us to make an effort to bother to answer your questions thoroughly. That is when frustration creeps in and the temperature starts going up. Let us explain, carefully read what we say, acknowledge that you have read and understand, THEN move on to something else.
I miss this post.

Sincerely and respecting your opinion, I don't agree here... there is much more than frequencies, dynamics or distortion.

A low end 100 euro headphone and a high end 1000 euro headphone will sound completely different in the aspects I mentioned before even if they share similar frequency graph and distortion.

And you only need to have two ears to realize that. Probably it can be measured somehow by doing diaphragm studies or whatever... that's why I was asking and keep asking. Your answer here, in my opinion, is not accurate.
 

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