[bigshot]

This conversation is pointless. They deliberately aren’t listening and are just being argumentative. Fragmenting the discussion by throwing in one digression after another. More of our tag team trolling.

 

[Riccioli30]

This conversation is pointless. They deliberately aren’t listening and are just being argumentative. Fragmenting the discussion by throwing in one digression after another. More of our tag team trolling.

agree

 

[Dragonmilenario]

I dislike the condescension present in certain responses, whether they come from one side or the other.

As we say in Spain, ‘ni tanto ni tan calvo’ (neither too much nor too little).

On one hand, some ‘scientists’—have any of you conducted original experiments, or do you merely parrot the findings of others? Are you not familiar with the paradox of recurrence?

On the other hand, we have the audiophile prophets who claim that even a single hair on a cable can alter the sound quality.

A touch of humility is necessary, cause, to paraphrase the most famous bearded figure in history: only a fool believes they possess absolute certainty.

 

[Riccioli30]

I dislike the condescension present in certain responses, whether they come from one side or the other.

As we say in Spain, ‘ni tanto ni tan calvo’ (neither too much nor too little).

On one hand, some ‘scientists’—have any of you conducted original experiments, or do you merely parrot the findings of others? Are you not familiar with the paradox of recurrence?

On the other hand, we have the audiophile prophets who claim that even a single hair on a cable can alter the sound quality.

A touch of humility is necessary, cause, to paraphrase the most famous bearded figure in history: only a fool believes they possess absolute certainty.

agree

 

[texx2818]

Bigshot and others have called me that, come on, directly and bluntly.

I had no idea how cultish the forum could get. I thought it was a safe place to share experiences about sound and headphones, without all this PS3 vs Xbox 360 era level crap or worse.

Back to the topic of the thread, there is one thing I keep coming back to: my daughter’s response always came at a specific second of that clip (being open headphones, and even though the volume was low, I could hear it). At that point, she respond with the word old (silver) or new (copper) cable. It was always the same second, when the voice and the drums took on more presence.

For these reasons and others, I believe she was not cheating, at least not consciously.

This specific forum is a cesspool of arrogance, just move on. There's no point in even engaging. It's just a spot for people to feel better than everyone else to hide the shortcomings in their personal life.

 

[bigshot]

I do listening tests on every piece of equipment I buy to make sure it isn't defective so I can exchange it if there is a problem before the return window expires. Controlled tests aren't hard to do and they don't take a lot of complicated equipment.

I listen to music subjectively. It is creative and is a product of creativity and humanity. I evaluate the fidelity of sound equipment with logic and science. It's a product of technology. I don't mix those two different things up.

And just because you don't know something yourself, it doesn't mean that it can't be known. Argument from ignorance is a logical fallacy and it will prevent you from ever learning anything.

 

[bigshot]

And how far down the rabbit hole do we go? Amps, DACs, chips, and power supplies? Are we living in the Matrix? Is it all an illusion?

I hate to break it to you like this, but high end audio is largely built on lies. As we say in Spain, "El poopo del toro."

 

[Ryokan]

'Don't drink the water'.

 

[The Jester]

There’s always the “goldilocks” principle ?
Various mix n match components with very different specs …headphone amps with various output impedance, and headphones from 20 to 600 ohms input impedance, preamps with output impedance from 10 ohms up to 800 or more, power amps with input impedance from 10k ohms to 100k ohms, all effect to some degree how efficient a transmission line is, so it’s possible to reduce how lossy the transmission line is by optimising the characteristic impedance of the connecting cable including its connectors, not having ferrous metals, improving the velocity of propagation in the transmission line itself with a dielectric of say Teflon instead of PVC to minimise the effects of reflections and differing speeds of various frequencies, theoretically possible using the previously mentioned equations and pouring over specs but are there any meaningful gains ?, guess that depends on how transparent each component is, most likely there’d be no difference but it can’t hurt trying differently constructed cables of different materials and accidentally finding one that’s “ just right “ , totally impractical in say pro audio where time is money and tried and true brands work without issue, but for the inveterate fiddler that is the home hobbyist with time on their hands … maybe ?

 

[Riccioli30]

I hate to break it to you like this, but high end audio is largely built on lies. As we say in Spain, "El poopo del toro."

have a good night

 

[bigshot]

There’s always the “goldilocks” principle ?
Various mix n match components with very different specs

if all the specs are below the threshold of audibility, mixing and matching won’t matter. The only part that varies are the transducers. You have to find cans with a frequency response that sounds good to you and match them with an amp with a sympathetic impedance.

 

[bigshot]

'Don't drink the water'.

 

[Dragonmilenario]

I think it's impossible, as far as I can see, to have a pleasant conversation and discussion on these topics, and that's a shame.

For a certain group of users, audiophiles are like terraplaners and treat them with disdain and for the latter many users are blinded by scientific studies and cannot see beyond them.

I know very little about all this and I am not ashamed to admit it, in fact this thread is helping me to understand certain things (between attack and attack something good can be taken out).

I have a doubt: for example, there are two headphones that seem very similar to me both when I listen to them and when I look at their frequency graphs (they have the mid bass a little forward, a drop in the 1-2 Khz and some treble peak) such as the Hifiman Arya Organic and the HE1000SE... however the latter are more resolving, more separation of layers, the instruments are more realistic and the sound in general is more open and have more quality (its price is also an indicator). Can all the above be measured with electronic devices?

 

[bigshot]

I know very little about all this and I am not ashamed to admit it, in fact this thread is helping me to understand certain things

That is the purpose of this group. I'm glad you're beginning to figure it out. This isn't about winning an argument, it's about sharing information. If you didn't cling to you misconceptions so tightly, you'd have a lot less problems. It isn't polite to be silent and allow people to make mistakes, and it isn't rude to point out the truth. But you have to be receptive to information and not reject it out of hand because it doesn't fit your mistaken preconceptions.

Yes headphones do sound different from each other. Even two copies of the same make and model can sound different due to manufacturing tolerances. And yes, those differences can be measured. There are many sources of that info. But you have to know how to interpret the graphs. Transducers are mechanical and produce physical sound. That is a LOT more difficult to do accurately than to pass an electronic signal from point A to point B. Digital audio has solved the problems of fidelity when it comes to amps, DACs and players. The electronics are easy. The wild card are the transducers. There are good headphones and bad ones, and what might work well for your particular ears may not work well for someone else's.

If you want optimal sound, just going by your gut feelings isn't going to get you there. Random selection produces random results. You have to gather together real information, do your homework, and proceed with a logical strategy to reach your goals. You don't do that by throwing up your hands and focusing on your feelings. You do that by talking to people who know how things work and prioritizing what matters over things that just don't matter at all.

One thing you might want to think about is focusing your language a bit. Audiophiles use vague terminology like "resolving" and "layers". People who know how audio works refer to specifics of frequency response, distortion, dynamics and time. For instance, you mention cans that are more "resolving" which doesn't tell me much at all, but you mention a response dip at 2kHz, which is the range where the human ear is most sensitive. Small deviations in that area can make big differences. But to know that, you have to know what 2kHz sounds like, what part of the music occupies that range, and how human ears hear those frequencies. If you're actually interested in that, you could post a link to the two sets of measurements (it needs to be two sets measured by the same person because different people apply different compensation corrections) and ask for people to chime in and help you interpret those graphs. But if you're going to ask that, you shouldn't argue with them, especially if you don't know what you're talking about and they do.

It would also help to talk about one thing at a time. It frustrates us to explain things only to have our explanations ignored, and questions about three more completely different subjects heaped on top of the pile. We want to be able to answer a question, and any other questions you might have on that subject, before moving on to something else. When you flit from subject to subject to try to justify your subjective feelings, it makes it unrewarding for us to make an effort to bother to answer your questions thoroughly. That is when frustration creeps in and the temperature starts going up. Let us explain, carefully read what we say, acknowledge that you have read and understand, THEN move on to something else.

 

[Riccioli30]

I think it's impossible, as far as I can see, to have a pleasant conversation and discussion on these topics, and that's a shame.

For a certain group of users, audiophiles are like terraplaners and treat them with disdain and for the latter many users are blinded by scientific studies and cannot see beyond them.

I know very little about all this and I am not ashamed to admit it, in fact this thread is helping me to understand certain things (between attack and attack something good can be taken out).

I have a doubt: for example, there are two headphones that seem very similar to me both when I listen to them and when I look at their frequency graphs (they have the mid bass a little forward, a drop in the 1-2 Khz and some treble peak) such as the Hifiman Arya Organic and the HE1000SE... however the latter are more resolving, more separation of layers, the instruments are more realistic and the sound in general is more open and have more quality (its price is also an indicator). Can all the above be measured with electronic devices?

we started by discussing whether my, or the young daughters of others, can identify without any doubt that a silver signal cable sounds different from a copper one... and we concluded that dining on caviar and champagne is exactly the same as eating pasta and beans. And whoever says otherwise must take a bath in humility. Sin. Unfortunately it is a question of point of view and points of view are like ears and head: everyone has their own. Old story, nothing new, it's been fine for decades and we'll end it here. But some constructive contribution would have been interesting. Now I have to go out and I'm in doubt whether with the Ferrari 488 or with the Smart. No problem. They are absolutely the same. I'm relieved.