My six-year-old daughter flawlessly passed a blind test between a silver-plated wire and a copper one
Jan 3, 2024 at 1:53 AM Post #376 of 424
What a bunch of smart words huh?

Your last phrase is laughable. Anybody that has been in this hobby a couple of months knows how blind-minded that sounds.

Nobody in this hobby is afraid, to acknowledge the mistakes. Typical assumptions and patterns, from measurments experts.

“You are all deceived, you can not hear it, because I can not read/measure” it type of guy

You just like to talk smart words without any real weight to them.
The posts always comes to some all vs nothing silliness, when we know for a fact that both sound difference and imagined difference are possible. It comes down to the specific situation and the amount of reliable data we can get about it. I have heard quite dramatic changes myself(I'm talking several dB here and there, or so much crosstalk that we might as well say the cable was mono, but worse). And even then, I'm fairly confident that the testimonies are for the majority, people fooling themselves, because there is so much evidence of psychological bias from serious research and so little evidence of cable difference from the people who claim it, that the cautious guess must always lean toward the human fault IMO. At least until we can get some data suggesting otherwise.
Instead, we get people who are so very sure they know what's going on, which is a strong case for psychological bias if you look into who is more likely to be wrong, the confident people with little evidence or knowledge of how electricity works, are the perfect demographic for false certainty.

On the other hand, I agree that audible differences do happen and that people who spent some time trying stuff in this hobby probably encountered the situation. and we usually don't measure enough. Now, is silver always having the same sound? Some things like that give away placebo IMO.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 2:22 AM Post #377 of 424
The posts always comes to some all vs nothing silliness, when we know for a fact that both sound difference and imagined difference are possible. It comes down to the specific situation and the amount of reliable data we can get about it. I have heard quite dramatic changes myself(I'm talking several dB here and there, or so much crosstalk that we might as well say the cable was mono, but worse). And even then, I'm fairly confident that the testimonies are for the majority, people fooling themselves, because there is so much evidence of psychological bias from serious research and so little evidence of cable difference from the people who claim it, that the cautious guess must always lean toward the human fault IMO. At least until we can get some data suggesting otherwise.
Instead, we get people who are so very sure they know what's going on, which is a strong case for psychological bias if you look into who is more likely to be wrong, the confident people with little evidence or knowledge of how electricity works, are the perfect demographic for false certainty.

On the other hand, I agree that audible differences do happen and that people who spent some time trying stuff in this hobby probably encountered the situation. and we usually don't measure enough. Now, is silver always having the same sound? Some things like that give away placebo IMO.
“Now, is silver always having the same sound?”………..it's a fair question.

But if I gave my personal answer based on my personal experience of listening in my system and based on what I hear with my own ears…….we will return to point “0” of this discussion and so…..we leave the arduous sentence for posterity (or another forum).

Happy New Year to everyone: to those who measure and to those who listen and don't measure.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 2:50 AM Post #378 of 424
Typical experts hiding behind their science and measurements. But still no weights to their words, and no real objective opinions.

Predictable conversations with no real content about sharing true perception and thoughts.

Selectable reading skills and manipulating people into believing what BS(“actual facts”) you have been teaching yourselfs.

Your stubborn attitudes was left in the late 90s

…which you still never realise it because of a prisoned mindset, locked to “how you should feel” by numbers.
 
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Jan 3, 2024 at 3:05 AM Post #379 of 424
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 3:17 AM Post #380 of 424
I don’t know what your intentions are, but I am assuming you are just here to troll people and mislead them with facts you are limited to measure with your equipment.
How can you not know what my intentions are when this is the Sound Science forum and I’ve stated my intentions. And, how can you assume something contrary to what I’ve stated? How do you know what equipment I have and what it’s limited to measuring? And lastly, clearly some of my most recent posts in this thread are about the semantics of the term “Hearing”, so nothing to do “with facts I am limited to measure” anyway!
I hope people will see your post patterns in this forum.
Me too. I hope they will see yours too!
It has never in your life accured to you that the graphs and measurments you are looking at is 2D…
Duh, of course that’s never occurred to me, because some of the graphs and measurements I look at are 3D (Waterfall plots for example), why would I look at a 3d graph as if it were only 2d? And when it comes to actual 2d graphs or measurements, how many dimensions do you think I’m looking at or should be looking at? You don’t seem to know what a graph is!
How would you measure layers, depth and holographic experience in Hz?
An analogue cable transfers an analogue signal and an analogue signal does not have any layers, depth, holographic or any other sort of “experience”. Obviously we cannot “measure in Hz” (or in anything else) something that a cable doesn’t have. You might as well ask: ”how do you measure the translucency of ghosts in decibels?” or “how do you measure the speed that mermaids can swim in kilograms?”!
Im getting tired of your “actual facts” when you can’t even stand(measure) behind what you say.
If you’re getting tired of the actual facts then you’re in the wrong forum, because that what this forum if for and, we weren’t discussing my measurements but the measurements of someone else. Of course I can and do stand behind what I say (and measure)!
I encourage people to stay open-minded
As this is the science forum, then we HAVE TO encourage people to be sceptical of any claim and not be open-minded to false claims which are contradicted by science/the facts.
and learn from their experience/placebo
Surely the very first thing that should be learnt “from their experience/placebo”, before anything else is learned, is that it is an experience/placebo, rather than some real physical property of an analogue signal or acoustic sound wave?
rather like you looking blind-minded on measurments that don’t even measure the human ear perception
Again, we’re discussing analogue cables, more recently a measurement of analogue cables, and cables do not have any “human ear perception”, they only have an analogue signal, so the only thing we can measure is that analogue signal or the sound produced when that signal is transduced into a sound wave (which also does not have any “human ear perception”). All we have to do is then compare that/those measurements with the well established thresholds of human hearing and/or the claims being made.
Typical experts hiding behind their science and measurements.
We’re not hiding behind “science and measurements”, what do you think analogue and digital audio is, if it’s not science and measurements? You think maybe they were discovered at the bottom of a mine or growing on some tree?
Predictable conversations with no real content about sharing true perception and thoughts.
Again, Duh! Of course it’s predictable that in a sound science discussion forum we would discuss sound science rather than “sharing perceptions and thoughts” that are contrary to the science
Your stubborn attitudes was left in the late 90s
Our stubborn attitudes were never “left”, we are very stubborn about proven/demonstrated/established facts and science, such as the Earth isn’t flat, 1+1=2 and numerous others. Your stubborn attitude was left in the late 90s though, roughly the late 1690’s when modern science was invented!
… because of a prisoned mindset, locked to “how you should feel” by numbers.
What do you think digital audio is, if it’s not just numbers? Plus, this is a strawman argument anyway, because no one is arguing how those numbers should make you feel!

The ONLY way I can see why ALL the above wouldn’t be obvious, is if someone had little/no understanding of audio measurements or of science. BUT surely no one would be stupid enough to come to an actual sound science discussion forum with such little understanding of audio measurements or science and argue or insult others about it?

G
 
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Jan 3, 2024 at 3:45 AM Post #381 of 424
“Now, is silver always having the same sound?”………..it's a fair question.
It would be a fair question for someone who doesn’t know. It’s not such a fair question for science though because it’s already been effectively answered. In fact science could very accurately predict the answer to this question by the 1890’s.
But if I gave my personal answer based on my personal experience of listening in my system and based on what I hear with my own ears…….we will return to point “0” of this discussion and so…..we leave the arduous sentence for posterity (or another forum).
Firstly, you would have to demonstrate it is actually “based on what you hear with your own ears” rather than just an a personal experience based on a perceptual error/bias. Secondly, we don’t have to leave it “for posterity”, it has already been answered around 130 years ago.
Happy New Year to everyone: to those who measure and to those who listen and don't measure.
And to those who both listen and measure (and have studied both)? If so, Happy New Year to you too.

G
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 3:52 AM Post #382 of 424
Typical experts hiding behind their science and measurements. But still no weights to their words, and no real objective opinions.

Predictable conversations with no real content about sharing true perception and thoughts.

Selectable reading skills and manipulating people into believing what BS(“actual facts”) you have been teaching yourselfs.

Your stubborn attitudes was left in the late 90s

…which you still never realise it because of a prisoned mindset, locked to “how you should feel” by numbers.
Considering that you haven't addressed a single thing in my post addressed to you, or it went in one ear (eye) and out the other, you seem to be here to do nothing more than close your eyes and ears and periodically spew diatribes in variation with no contribution to the discussion. We might as well have ourselves a ChatGPT troll. I may have no choice but to employ the term "jeerleader".
 
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Jan 3, 2024 at 4:29 AM Post #384 of 424
Typical experts hiding behind their science and measurements. But still no weights to their words, and no real objective opinions.

Predictable conversations with no real content about sharing true perception and thoughts.

Selectable reading skills and manipulating people into believing what BS(“actual facts”) you have been teaching yourselfs.

Your stubborn attitudes was left in the late 90s

…which you still never realise it because of a prisoned mindset, locked to “how you should feel” by numbers.
Observe the form of your argument before it's function. You who preach about open mindedness should try practicing it first. It's rather difficult to take you seriously because I can't hear you over what you're doing.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 10:03 AM Post #385 of 424
What a bunch of smart words huh?

Your last phrase is laughable. Anybody that has been in this hobby a couple of months knows how blind-minded that sounds.

Nobody in this hobby is afraid, to acknowledge the mistakes. Typical assumptions and patterns, from measurments experts.

“You are all deceived, you can not hear it, because I can not read/measure” it type of guy

You just like to talk smart words without any real weight to them.

Science is wrong and the uneducated are right. Because feelings trump objective data...

I was hoping that would be over when 2023 ended, but apparently not.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 10:09 AM Post #386 of 424
Typical experts hiding behind their science and measurements. But still no weights to their words, and no real objective opinions.

Predictable conversations with no real content about sharing true perception and thoughts.

Selectable reading skills and manipulating people into believing what BS(“actual facts”) you have been teaching yourselfs.

Your stubborn attitudes was left in the late 90s

…which you still never realise it because of a prisoned mindset, locked to “how you should feel” by numbers.

So science is hiding behind vetted facts supported by controlled testing and measurements while you hide behind completely fabricated concepts that you can't prove, won't test and can't explain.

What's the old saying? "Ignorance is bliss"?
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 12:04 PM Post #388 of 424
Never mind the accusations towards me and that I’m lying and that I did not hear what I heard, and my time wasted on providing data is “false”, but even more so towards OP, against whom they claimed he didn’t even have a daughter and make accusations against a six-year old.

I joined Head-Fi because I thought it was a great community with lots of knowledge to share. That’s still true: just not in Sound Science.
Perfectly said.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 12:22 PM Post #389 of 424
There is no “everything sounds the same” faith, the presenter was not “crucified” and “their science“ did NOT contradict that the two cables tested sound the same
The words of a true believer in the faith.

You keep on chanting the creed, and in the meantime, be sure to wash your hands if you ever take your fingers out of your ears.
 
Jan 3, 2024 at 1:01 PM Post #390 of 424
The words of a true believer in the faith.

You keep on chanting the creed, and in the meantime, be sure to wash your hands if you ever take your fingers out of your ears.

Comically, these words are in fact precisely what you and a couple of other folks are doing but you have drunk the audio kool aid so much that you can’t see reality even if it is put right in front of you.
 
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