[Pwn3r4Life]

Quote:

Good of you to share your business acumen. I am sure Apple appreciates the message and perspective of a kid living in his parents basement.

  This place just gets funnier and funnier.

Have you ever heard of the phrase, "If you don't have anything nice to say don't say it?"
And just an FYI I don't live in my parent's basement, I live upstairs.

And it is actually more likely that Apple would listen to me than you considering, for one, that I am nice to everyone unless they give me a reason not to be.
Two, Apple markets their things as the cool new things of the next generation. I am the next generation.
Three, Apple loves new ideas and innovation, they are a unique breed of company that innovates even when they are the best. *cough cough* ford five years ago *cough cough*
Sure you might be older than me, but that does not mean that you are better.
I would like to end this friendly discussion with a simple question to you...
http://www.polyvore.com/cgi/img-thing?.out=jpg&size=l&tid=11178110

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

I'm not joking and I own a 3rd gen and use that primarily because of the other things it does besides a music player, I have used my brother's and my dad's iphone 4s as a source and I agree there is a substantial amount of improvement but the truth is it still is not as good as HD sound cards used in computers, and it is also not the best source as far as sound quality output goes.
I love my iPod and it is the only Apple product I wish to own. I'm just saying that sure they could have got by with an iPhone 4s having a normal 8 megapixel camera but they made it do so much more and that was Apple prides themselves in.
 

Try comparing Apples with Apples (pardon the pun).  Compare the SQ of the iPhone4 with another DAP in a similar price range (eg Cowon, Sony) - not with a sound card .....  Since when was a sound card portable?
 
I'll suggest again - IMO they have decent sound equipment on both their iPads and iPhones (which is what your original post was stating was sub-par).  And remember - these are targeted toward the masses - not the audiophile market.  The fact that many on head-fi use them and like them is a testament to the overall design.  If you want something strictly for audiophiles - you'll need to target the sflo or the hifman players.  Yo'd be better targeting them anyway and suggesting they improve battery life, ease of use and capacity.
 
IMO you're wrong targeting  the iPhone and iPod.  They've revolutionised the portable source world, and created a product that for it's price range and feature set has very good SQ.
 
Also - while you're at it - why don't you let fly at Samsung - evidently (from what I've read) - they were the ones that have really dropped the ball on SQ with the new S2 version ......

 

[anetode]

My Message to Apple.... Sorry to hear about Steve

 

[music_man]

it was already out. i just did not feel like saying that. it is very sad.

 

[ozz]

Very sad day indeed my prayers go to his family.

 

[Eric_C]

Pwn3r4Life, please don't send a message to Apple saying that the Head-Fi community is asking for this. As has been pointed out to you, the iPhone 4 sounds good enough for at least some of us.
 
I'd also ask you to re-look at your statement about Apple needing to market to the next generation, and how you're the next generation. Apple needs to market to the current generation, including the young and the old, because the old ones got the cash and the young ones got the itch to upgrade--this is not always mutually exclusive, mind you. Also, if you're so sure that you represent your generation in terms of what people want from a DAP, look at your peers (possibly in school); do they complain that the Classic hasn't been updated? Are they complaining that Apple's sound quality isn't good enough? What do they own or desire to own, in terms of DAPs?

 

[Parall3l]

^^ X2
 
I'm 15 and I don't really care for a DAP's sound quality, as long as its not so bad its obvious. Its the other features that I care about. Thats also the reason I picked the Touch over the Classic.

 

[Pwn3r4Life]

You guys need to stop hating...
All I meant in my simple statement is that the camera on the iPhone 4 was par or above. The iPhone 4s made it amazing. And since when are all the filters, lenses, and arpetures available on a phone? They werent and Apple made that happen. I'm just suggesting an seeing if anyone else cared about an upgrade in sound quality on possibly the next generation. I was just suggesting that the use of slightly more advanced audio equipment in their phones and iPods would be beneficial. Just like with the camera only photographers would know what an lens arpeture and that fancy filter thing is, but when it is put into action it is fantastic. If Apple simply used higher grade magnets in their speakers, not neodymium that's too pricy, but something almost as good, would leave me more than satisfied and a lot of people I know. For a fact I have literally seen countless times that people will say, hey have you heard this song? And then blast the volume on their phones but the speaker is too low quality and low volume to even hear it let alone make out the words. A HD soundcard type thing would be awesome too. I'm not saying the sound quality of iPhones is bad I'm just saying that the sound quality isn't best and why can't it be the best? The camera is a great example of what apple can do and why can't they do the same for the what started the iPhone, they added an iPod to a phone and got the iPhone. It would be awesome to literally be walking around with a boombox in your pocket.
Stop hatin'
"Throw dirt on me, and grow a wildflower."

 

[Eric_C]

Quote:

Hey guys I was planning on sending a short, sweet, and to the point letter to Apple simply saying this.
 
Congratulations,
The iPhone 4S has a camera that astounds even professional photographers.
Now, can you make the sound astound even audiophiles?
Sincerely,
(The Head-Fi Community followed by a bunch of signatures that I hope to get from you guys)
 
The parentheses at the end explain themselves but I am not going to send this without it being accompanied by something like 1,000 signatures (virtual of course.)
And as far as having it say Head-Fi community I'm not going to say that without approval from Jude because that would be illegal.
Maybe we could even get a big piece of paper at CanJam for signatures.
Anyway you guys comment, hype this, get some virtual signatures, and help me improve this because I am serious about this and want to have a major impact on Apple and seriously get some decent equipment in their iPhones and iPods.
 
Thanks for your help guys and for just reading this,
Peace,
Pwn3r4Life

We're not hatin'. We're commenting and helping you improve it--and sometimes improvement means calling out a bad idea when we see one. 

 

[Brooko]

Totally agree with Eric.  You put forward an idea - I was just telling you why I think it's not going to get a lot of traction.
 
But be specific - what would you improve about the SQ?  "How can you make a sound that will astound audiophiles" is just a trifle loose.  What actually needs improvement?  And I really don't think the audiophile market is the market that Apple has targeted - it's really too small to matter for them.  The fact that they've come out with something with really good SQ for a portable is a bonus, and why so many of us enjoy them.
 
To be honest, and possibly I read it wrong (mea culpa), your original post sounded like the usual 'beating up on Apple because we think it's cool to slag them off' post - rather than recognising that what they have done is actually pretty good in it's own right.
 
FWIW - this is the phrase that led me to that conclusion:
 
 
Quote:

and seriously get some decent equipment in their iPhones and iPods

 
What is in there now is decent IMO.
 
BTW - have you heard the internal speaker in an iPad2?  Go listen to one - it is worth the effort.  I was actually quite surprised that it sounds half decent.  As far as having a boombox in your pocket - how exactly are they supposed to make that happen - with the current size of the iPhone - and make it a decent speaker?  Really?  That's why iPods are iPods - they require headphones to sound their best 

 

[Eric_C]

^ x2 what Brooko has stated.
 
I'm also reminded that iDevices may not sound great on their own, but the 3rd-party market (for audiophiles) already has products to extract the unamped, and in some cases pre-DAC, signal from the iDevice. Which is as audiophile you can get.
And some DAPs don't even have the ability to give you an unamped signal, let alone a digital one. So, there you go.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Hmmm... where to begin.

First, please do not speak on behalf of Head-Fi. That's Jude's job. If you send a message, please make it on behalf of audiophiles generally.

Second, Steve Jobs was one of us. No joke. I'm on the iPhone, but Google for that famous photo of Steve in the mostly empty room with a Tiffany lamp. Look in the background. That's a J.A. Michell Gyrodec and a pair of Acoustat electrostats in the background. If you're not familiar, that's some hardcore audiophile gear. (Good choice on the Gyrodec (I bought one, too) but prefer Quads to Acoustat.)

Apple has always pushed good sound in their products. The original Mac was noted for having serious audio chips and there's a reason why Apple has done well with pro sound. Same reason Apple has given us optical out on Macs for a long time now.

If you want to rag on a mainstream company for audio quality, Apple should be at the bottom of your list.

There are two problems with the iPod:

1. It is tuned for maximum battery life, so the internal amp doesn't deliver much power. It measures well and is accurate, but was tuned for efficient IEMs. This is sort of like bitching about how a Prius won't turn in a 12 second quarter mile. You're missing the entire point. If you want high power, buy something else. I like the HD-800. But I run it on an appropriate amp. I don't plug it into my iPod and whine.

2. The iPod isn't exclusive enough for audiophiles. Horrors! Something affordable and appeals to many. Why, why, why it MUST be terrible! If an iPod cost $2,000 and had a 1" thick aluminum faceplate, it would be an audiophile masturbatory device. But since everyone knows about it, it's "awful."

No, the iPod isn't the best available. But if you want great sound, but a high-end turntable and some electrostats. Like Steve did. Or me.

And you really should appreciate Apple for building things like bit-perfect optical out into mainstream products. That would never have happened if Apple didn't have a serious audiophile around.

 

[Pwn3r4Life]

Thanks for the constructive criticism guys! I now get why it would be illogical to improve the headphone out aspect of the iPhones and iPods. But that still leaves the speakers, which especially suck on the iPods... Any thoughts there?
I never meant to say the headphone aspect of the iPhones and iPods arent decent otherwise I wouldn't use one myself. I really was aiming more towards the speakers especially those in iPods, it seems like they just put them where they put them randomly and they suck...

 

[Brooko]

Who - in all honesty - actually listens to the internal speaker on an iPod?  Or on any DAP for that matter?
 
OP - I think you're clutching at straws here.  Might pay to quit with this line of thought while you're behind 

 (and no personal disrespect intended) - but you just moved from the misinformed to the ridiculous IMO.

 

[Brooko]

I just reread my post and it sounds a little condescending - which it's not meant to be.  I just couldn't understand what you're trying to get at.  It almost appears that you made a statement that wasn't well thought out - and then have been trying to backpedal ever since.  When I do or say something stupid - once I realise, I usually just apologise and move on.  Maybe that was what what you were trying to do.  If it was - I'm sorry for being a prat.
 
IMO - the only reason the speaker is there on the iPod at all is for the alarm.  With the iPhone - it's obviously for the phone.  They're not for real audio (music).  The iPad on the other hand is meant to be used without headphones if you want to - and the speaker on that is actually semi-decent.  Hope this answers your question.