[gLer]

The one thing that I know from years and years of audio work is that EVERYTHING, ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in your chain affects the sound.

This is such an important point. I really wish more reviews would be clear on this. Even if the change is very subtle, it's still a change, and the change could be just the thing that tips the scales for someone, either good or bad. Your point on the Code 51 cable is a good one - it may have a very positive effect on bass, but for someone who doesn't really like bass, it's a negative. Same goes for the treble emphasis. Look forward to your cable review, I hope it includes the PW 1950s and 1960s as these are, for me, the de facto high end copper cables.

 

[Lépine]

removed

 

[SCBob]

Wow remarkable experience and so well explained with such details and nuances! You are true 64audio fan! I totally understand why as I am also a huge fan of 64a and while I am only a normal audiophile guy but also known as the mighty Tiger Ears of headfi. I always believed and found 64a and specially Tia Fourté! To be the best iem that simply exists on the planet! This is world class sound and reading your professional inputs and examples at how remarkable it is, truly made go wild and wowed, like yeaaa I was right I was right this the supremacy of sounds!!!

While I see your favorite is u18t I unfortunately haven't had any experience with this one yet and you make really willing to try it asap haha.
I love DD and u12t didn't make it for me as bass, I wonder how would u18t? I always felt that fourté DD is the absolute reference and pinnacle of bass in the iem world... The impact the textures the organical rumble is simply unmatched!

I'll tell you a secret, wm1z + fourté is simply heaven of heavens for bass galors and endless textural and timbral orgies
I even compared that combo vs sennheiser He-1 and highly preferred the 1z+fourté

Today I have sp2000 copper + Tia Fourté with premium silver cable in 3.5mm also a copper cable from double helix the compliment C.
And I am still finding 1z and fourté to be the most exiting and unique experience that you can find in the portable world.
Emotional, seductive, sexual, most exclusive, just bliss.

With sp2000 copper I find things to be more accurate and less fun factors as with 1z. I guess this is the sound to go go for more accuracy and less of a slightly V shaped 1z hehe.
Man 1z + u18t should be ludacriously good!

This was Tiger Ears! I Rooar for you thanks for sharing!

Have you spent enough time with the Double Helix Complement C cable to give your impressions and comparisons to other cables you've used? Thanks!

 

[Vitaly2017]

Have you spent enough time with the Double Helix Complement C cable to give your impressions and comparisons to other cables you've used? Thanks!

I have not yet had enough time but sure will on the 64a thread and double helix.

I also just acquired EA Janus B so will add that to the comparisons as well.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Wow remarkable experience and so well explained with such details and nuances! You are true 64audio fan! I totally understand why as I am also a huge fan of 64a and while I am only a normal audiophile guy but also known as the mighty Tiger Ears of headfi. I always believed and found 64a and specially Tia Fourté! To be the best iem that simply exists on the planet! This is world class sound and reading your professional inputs and examples at how remarkable it is, truly made go wild and wowed, like yeaaa I was right I was right this the supremacy of sounds!!!

While I see your favorite is u18t I unfortunately haven't had any experience with this one yet and you make really willing to try it asap haha.
I love DD and u12t didn't make it for me as bass, I wonder how would u18t? I always felt that fourté DD is the absolute reference and pinnacle of bass in the iem world... The impact the textures the organical rumble is simply unmatched!

I'll tell you a secret, wm1z + fourté is simply heaven of heavens for bass galors and endless textural and timbral orgies
I even compared that combo vs sennheiser He-1 and highly preferred the 1z+fourté

Today I have sp2000 copper + Tia Fourté with premium silver cable in 3.5mm also a copper cable from double helix the compliment C.
And I am still finding 1z and fourté to be the most exiting and unique experience that you can find in the portable world.
Emotional, seductive, sexual, most exclusive, just bliss.

With sp2000 copper I find things to be more accurate and less fun factors as with 1z. I guess this is the sound to go go for more accuracy and less of a slightly V shaped 1z hehe.
Man 1z + u18t should be ludacriously good!

This was Tiger Ears! I Rooar for you thanks for sharing!

Hey there Tiger Ears!
I apologize for the delay in replying to your awesomely energetic response! I was quite overwhelmed with all the responses and it's taken me some time to make sure that I wrote back to everyone. I really appreciate your words and glad you liked the post!

You are definitely not the only one that loves the Fourte, it's world class for sure. And indeed, the bass is really without comparison for me, best I've ever heard. The 18t isn't quite as good overall, the perfect texture and organic nature of the Fourtes DD is hard to replicate in a BA, but it's REALLY CLOSE, as close as any BA I've ever heard. And, while it is not quite as textured it is faster, which can be nice for wildly orchestrated and complicated music, like orchestral, metal, even some modern jazz where that clean and fast cohesion does lend itself to clearing the space. So there is tradeoffs either way. If you're mostly interested in bass then the Fourte is a winner.

Where the 18t starts to win it over for me is everything else The way everything feels as it should, there is absolutely no break in frequency response, no hills or peaks, you don't feel a single disconnected note as when you hear the different crossovers, like I can hear with Fourte. Its just one connected sound, from the deepest rumble to the highest airy sparkle on top, it's all just one and this was what really impressed me the most.

I read once in a review that "what most impresses us in the first few minutes of a listen can become the tiny thing that nags at us after longer listening. True perfection is when that first listen doesn't degrade but is proved true, even after long term use."

This is what I was looking for, and the 18t proved this to be true over and over again. Just my opinion

Enjoy your Fourte! And give the 18t a listen if you ever have a chance.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

I have not yet had enough time but sure will on the 64a thread and double helix.

I also just acquired EA Janus B so will add that to the comparisons as well.

I am also very interested what you felt with the DH cables, especially compared to the Janus. I have the Janus Dynamic version with 64A 18t, and I really like the idea behind the DH stuff. Cool science. Also the PW Audio 1950, similar idea there. How do they compare?

I come from a 2 channel Hi-fi background and they use pure copper to achieve some RIDICULOUSLY amazing clarity. DH seems to have the same idea. My only concern would be with the size, I already find the Janus to be as big as I could ever consider using for portable. I've never heard an IEM cable sound like my Cardas Golden Reference speaker cable before, so the weight is worth it.

 

[Vitaly2017]

I am also very interested what you felt with the DH cables, especially compared to the Janus. I have the Janus Dynamic version with 64A 18t, and I really like the idea behind the DH stuff. Cool science. Also the PW Audio 1950, similar idea there. How do they compare?

I come from a 2 channel Hi-fi background and they use pure copper to achieve some RIDICULOUSLY amazing clarity. DH seems to have the same idea. My only concern would be with the size, I already find the Janus to be as big as I could ever consider using for portable. I've never heard an IEM cable sound like my Cardas Golden Reference speaker cable before, so the weight is worth it.

Hi

I been studying cables for sometime now and have built upon my experiments a certain knowledge and feeling in regard of platings and pure monocrystals wires.

The thing is while some are pure purists and follow very strict religious rules against any unlegit approach's. I on the other hand closed my eyes on all rules and decided to try them all! Of course I am not crazy I wont buy cables over 2 000 a piece...

My expertise is still not complet as Janus B is one of my final test to fully comprehend the cables properties.

Ok so here it is,

I love double helix cables because they are pure! They only use very high quality occ and work only with silver and copper. Use eidolic jacks. You have options of gold plated jacks or rhodium. I go only with gold it has better sound quality performance.

Double helix has Prion4 as their flagship I only tried the Symbiote elite 19 not prion.
Symbiote elite 19 is very flexible and microphonics free cable, this pure silver cable is ultra refined clear and very very natural sounding. It has a nice organical feel and the textures layers are really high. Its a 18.9 awg wire it has superb detail retrieval and yet it still sounds natural even and super crystaline smoothe in the treble.
The points that come to mind when listening to this cable is beautiful vocals, gentle treble yet sparkly, very controlled bass and resolution+layers are among the best.

The cable is a bit big and bulky a T-shirt clip is a most have here.


The clone fusion
Is an awesome cable and price/ratio here flys threw the roof. You want a definitive upgrade from stock cable with a reasonable price, grab clone fusion.
While it is not a flagship it is yet a very capable one, its much smaller and uses 22awg. It has 4 wires in total, its like 1 wires and 2 are packed in side 1... This is 50/50 silver and copper.

I would say clone fision is, a dynamic, fun, powerful sound, it has speed in its signature. The treble is a little more sparkly and sharper then symbiote and bass also feels stronger. It has less details a little or less nuanced then symbiote yet not so far. Though I would almost say this one feels a little bit V shaped, not something I would recommend for a flagship iem.


I also had the Molecule 22awg 4 wires.
This one is fully made of copper.
This cable is a well rounded sounding one, like a copper its very smoothe gentle warm and a pleasant bouncy bass. Treble here is as silky and pleasant like in symbiote but not as sparkly and crystaline, it is sparkly but with a layer of warmth on top so not piercy.

Things that come to mind with this cable is lushy sound, good vibes, easy on treble, vocals are good but not the best. With this cable sometimes I had feeling of nosal vocals in occasions and even so more when I paired it with the noirs and less with og.


As goes for compliment C!

This is one of the best copper cables I tried I yet have to try 2 more ( kimber kable and eletech socrates ) as of now compliment c is the flagship at DH in pure copper cables. And it is made for headphones yet Peter is so nice with me he made it for my iems. I am sure he would build one who new requests.

About the sound of this beast

Compliment C offers a very close resolution of symbiote elite 19 since its a copper it goes for a bit more warmth and bassier tuning. This cable has an amazing balance and yet feels fun and very performant. Beautiful vocals no nosalness here, it feels also very natural just with a small tilt in the warmer direction yet it sounds very clean.
The treble is is so smooth and natural, no peaky spikes, no piercings bites. It has a sparkle that can give you the sense of the tonal decay without issue, yet smooth. This is probably due to its 19awg the thicker wire makes the treble very delicate and unforced, like it has a more natural flow that eliminates any glare or spike. It has some similarities with pure silver Symbiote elite its just a tad warmer denser in tonality.
The bass is very good, it has like a tuning where you got both bass presentation it can be slower and linear and if the music has speed and rumble it will adapt and present the proper tuning that is in the music. I would say it is in the sweet spot of speed, slam, quality with flagship iems or cables you will feel all the quality with a perfectly tuned slam like just the good quantity you need.

I really like the compliment C with my fourté cause it smoother down that treble, I am very sensitive to treble. It brings the perfect amount of warmth and bass to the whole spectrum. I am more on the bass side this why copper are my favorite cables!
And it is also why I went for Janus B im hope that maybe it can surpass the compliment C?



A few things I learned down the road.

Thicker the gage of the cable less bright and more controlled is the sound.

8w vs 4w 8wires has an enhanced resolution, some details seems more apparent, treble get less elevated and more bass control.

Silver cleanest purest sound, can get boring in the long run

Copper, fun, bassy flavorful sound considered being the most natural and harmonically right tuning.

Gold, has superb bass effects and very seductive vocals.
But I once tried the gold plated silver and it was a very bright cable an absolute NO NO. For fourté!

I yet have to try gold plated copper, but maybe Janus B (palladium plated copper) is superior so no need??? Will see


I hope that helps I am not an expert reviewer but I have stellar hearings it is on headfi that I earned my nick name Mr.Tiger Ears I just need to learn and find how to translate my hearing into words hehe so if there is something unclear let me know

 

[Vitaly2017]

Hey there Tiger Ears!
I apologize for the delay in replying to your awesomely energetic response! I was quite overwhelmed with all the responses and it's taken me some time to make sure that I wrote back to everyone. I really appreciate your words and glad you liked the post!

You are definitely not the only one that loves the Fourte, it's world class for sure. And indeed, the bass is really without comparison for me, best I've ever heard. The 18t isn't quite as good overall, the perfect texture and organic nature of the Fourtes DD is hard to replicate in a BA, but it's REALLY CLOSE, as close as any BA I've ever heard. And, while it is not quite as textured it is faster, which can be nice for wildly orchestrated and complicated music, like orchestral, metal, even some modern jazz where that clean and fast cohesion does lend itself to clearing the space. So there is tradeoffs either way. If you're mostly interested in bass then the Fourte is a winner.

Where the 18t starts to win it over for me is everything else The way everything feels as it should, there is absolutely no break in frequency response, no hills or peaks, you don't feel a single disconnected note as when you hear the different crossovers, like I can hear with Fourte. Its just one connected sound, from the deepest rumble to the highest airy sparkle on top, it's all just one and this was what really impressed me the most.

I read once in a review that "what most impresses us in the first few minutes of a listen can become the tiny thing that nags at us after longer listening. True perfection is when that first listen doesn't degrade but is proved true, even after long term use."

This is what I was looking for, and the 18t proved this to be true over and over again. Just my opinion

Enjoy your Fourte! And give the 18t a listen if you ever have a chance.

Thank you for the warm reply it made my day and I have a happy morning now

U18T sounds very impressive from what you are saying, its like the supreme linear sound that follows the curve from low bass to high treble without a single disconnect. This seems to be the perfect monitoring iem! As where not a single alteration or deviation in sound is allowed! Just real and straight sound feedback for perfect analysis.

That is the thing, u18t dont seems to be oriented for the fun or for the extravagant out of ordinary sound experiences that fourté can bring in. With fourté's DD and Tia Mid ba you get exclusive unique rare sound experiences that are spicy, rare, unique, with emotions, a lot of physical ground shaking sound waves. Not mentioning that fourté has such delicate deep abilities to nuances, textures, layers in sound that I simply struggling to find in any other iem...
Fourté will also scale tremendously, you need desktop class gear in order to fully feel and experience the mighty fourté!

I feel like u18t will be the master of the details and nuances and resoluting powers yet not as agitated or dynamic and fully blowing sound waves like fourté. With fourté's I can feel the sound waves physically travel threw my body and it gives me tears and bliss when I feel those grunty growling levitational bass textures vibing threw my whole body! Its exceptionally unique experience and with wm1z I remember it was just pure drugs

Also Fourté is ultra holographic, it can throw you in space time and you will be exploring the quantum mechanics of space dimensions. Its literally taking you into the inner univers.

Though I had ear fatigue from wm1z and it gave me often ear ringing... With sp2000 its much better for my ears and its almost like 1z in regards of bass and also a big bonus with treble it is way less peaky and elevated...

 

[SCBob]

Thank you for the warm reply it made my day and I have a happy morning now

U18T sounds very impressive from what you are saying, its like the supreme linear sound that follows the curve from low bass to high treble without a single disconnect. This seems to be the perfect monitoring iem! As where not a single alteration or deviation in sound is allowed! Just real and straight sound feedback for perfect analysis.

That is the thing, u18t dont seems to be oriented for the fun or for the extravagant out of ordinary sound experiences that fourté can bring in. With fourté's DD and Tia Mid ba you get exclusive unique rare sound experiences that are spicy, rare, unique, with emotions, a lot of physical ground shaking sound waves. Not mentioning that fourté has such delicate deep abilities to nuances, textures, layers in sound that I simply struggling to find in any other iem...
Fourté will also scale tremendously, you need desktop class gear in order to fully feel and experience the mighty fourté!

I feel like u18t will be the master of the details and nuances and resoluting powers yet not as agitated or dynamic and fully blowing sound waves like fourté. With fourté's I can feel the sound waves physically travel threw my body and it gives me tears and bliss when I feel those grunty growling levitational bass textures vibing threw my whole body! Its exceptionally unique experience and with wm1z I remember it was just pure drugs

Also Fourté is ultra holographic, it can throw you in space time and you will be exploring the quantum mechanics of space dimensions. Its literally taking you into the inner univers.

Though I had ear fatigue from wm1z and it gave me often ear ringing... With sp2000 its much better for my ears and its almost like 1z in regards of bass and also a big bonus with treble it is way less peaky and elevated...

Thank you for your DH Complement C impressions! I've been using an Code 51 with my Noirs and just got a U18t which also sounds great with the Code 51 but I wonder if it could be even more awesome with a very good copper cable. Based on your impressions I will give it a try.

 

[Marat Sar]

Writing to shortly answer u18t / Iliad question, and compare it to Janus D.

Janus D is definitely for you if you want to really tame the treble of U18t. For me it took away the treble-forwardness of the u18t, rearranging the soundstage a little so that the treble elements (cymbals etc) sound more distant. I noticed this effect across many sources, so I would say the u18t's signature was altered, for a warmer and more distant in the high registers sound. The bass also became slower to my ears. The clean, forward, tia treble, and the somewhat lean but fast bass, are for me defining traits of the u18t (especially the forward treble, which I think it's the best in the world still). The Iliad, from the sources I've used it with (SP2000 and Cayin C9) does not add treble to the u18t and is not a "treble happy" or "sparkly" cable, instead its treble is neutral. It extends it and adds a little resolution and some dynamics (sounds funner somehow) to the treble. BUT! Understand that these are very very resolving TOTL sources. Combos that appear a little "tizzy" or trebbly tend to lose that unpleasant edge, when fed by a super high rez source like SP2000 or especially Cayin c9 amp. The only way I can explain this is: the people who make the cables (Eletech, Effect audio etc) probably tune them for those TOTL sources, because that's where the clientele is for 2000+ USD cables; they'll have those sources -- sources that are able to translate peaky treble into just very resolving treble.

With my dx200, for example, the Iliad sounded a little sibilant to me and messed up the cymbals (too prominent).

So, if you like a more "copper" and warmer sound Janus D is probably better than Iliad for you. I don't claim to be "objective", it's audio and everyone's source and ears are different, but I would say it's pretty widely said that Janus D is that kind of cable. Mind you, I'm not saying the D "lessens" treble, it actually adds a tiny low treble peak -- but what it does is set that treble further out in the soundstage. However, if you want a slightly wider soundstage than the Janus D, more forward-sounding (but not over the top, pretty much exactly where the stock u18t cable's treble was) treble, and an added element of "fastness" or "dynamics" that's hard to explain (the Janus D was also a bit slow to me on the bass, though others hear that slowness as "natural timbre") -- then the Iliad is for you.

It's definitely -- at the very least -- worth a try for all u18t owners, I'd say. If you have a shop where you can hear it -- totally, totally do it.

From what I've heard, the Iliad is also a little tamer on the treble than Code 51, but since I haven't heard that I can't compare the two any further. (Kinda thinkin' I should buy the Code 51 for my Noir, actually. I've heard interesting things about the combo)

In conclusion, to my taste and with my sources, the Iliad is the "truest" cable to the u18t's nature, adding a little dynamics, fun and a wider soundstage, without changing anything. But, mind you, I always listen to the u18t with m15 module and thus think what it "truly is" is that lean and ultra-holographic version of this IEM.

I've heard the 1950s is the ULTIMATE u18t cable and the combo is "revered in Asia" (big and exciting claim), but I've never felt propelled to get the 1950s because reviews say it's not the biggest soundstage out there for cables. And soundstage size is the most important thing for me in IEMs in general.

 

[ajlolo]

Great comment, thanks for sharing

 

[Vitaly2017]

Writing to shortly answer u18t / Iliad questions and comparison to Janus D. Janus D is definitely for you if you want to "tame the treble" of U18t. For me it took away the treble-forwardness of the u18t, rearranging the soundstage a little so that the treble elements (cymbals etc) are a little more distant. I noticed this effect across many sources, so I would say the u18t's signature was altered by it, for a warmer and more distant sound. The clean, forward, tia tremble is for me a defining trait of the u18t. The Iliad, from the main sources I've used it with (SP2000 and Cayin C9) does not add treble to the u18t and is not a "treble happy" or "sparkly" cable. BUT! Understand that these are the very resolving TOTL sources, and it tends to be the case that combos that appear a little "tizzy" or trebbly lose that unpleasant edge, when fed by a super high rez source like SP2000 or especially Cayin c9 amp. The only way I can explain it is: the people who make the cables probably tune them a bit more for those TOTL sources because that's where the clientele is for 2000 USD cables, they'll have those sources, sources that are able to translate peaky treble into just very resolving treble.

Tl;dr -- if you like a more "copper" and warmer sound Janus D is probably best for you. If you want a larger soundstage than that, forward-sounding (but to my ears and with my source not over the top but exactly where the stock u18t cable's treble was) treble, and an added element of "fastness" or "dynamics" that's hard to explain (the Janus D was also a bit slow to me, though others hear that slowness as "natural timbre") then the Iliad is for you.

It's definitely, at the very least worth a try for all u18t owners, I'd say. If you have a shop where you can hear it -- totally do.

From what I've heard, the Iliad is also a little tamer on the details and treble than Code 51, but since I haven't heard that I can't compare the two any more.

To my taste and with my sources, the Iliad is the "truest" cable to u18t's nature. But, mind you, I always listen to the u18t with m15 module and thus prefer that lean and ultra-holographic side of this IEM.

Do you have any experience with Janus B and any thought on how it would react with Fourté?

 

[Marat Sar]

Do you have any experience with Janus B and any thought on how it would react with Fourté?

I've listened to it with my u18t, during the 2018 Can Jam in London. I liked D so much I basically took it home from that show. Liked the B too but it wasn't as magical to me, I guess. The marketing lead there (who I think went on to found Eletech a year later) told me D was tuned to give you the sound of "modern in ear monitors" and B to sound like "a speaker system". So, as you know, in most good speaker systems there is this very strong, visceral, central bass image in the centre-bottom of the soundstage. It's massive. You can feel it move the air. And the rest of the sounds are set out on a horizontal plane slightly above it, all of them smaller than the bass, yet still quite 3D and well placed. But the bass is the black hole at the bottom of the plane, so to say. That's what B sounded like. Very speaker-like, but like a speaker system (mostly) in your head. It wasn't as out-of-your head to my memory as D. It was similar to D in its technical capabilities, and that it was warm-ish and detailed. But a very different approach to staging. It was a very interesting cable, and if I had infinite money I'd get that too, in a blink. Just because it was so interesting -- and pretty unique. It really set out to do its "like speakers" thing and then delivered on it with too.

Fourte, actually, might be an interesting fit for it. On paper at least. Fourte's bass is often too lean for my taste. Great, but could just be MORE of it. B definitely adds that. Then the Fourte's treble is often too sharp. To my memory B also had D's "less up front" treble, so it's likely B could do something about Fourte's hit and miss treble. Can't say what the soundstage will be like... Very interesting combo idea. Would love to hear from someone who's tried it (Vitaly in this thread?)

But I defa wouldn't put down 1400 USD for that experiment blind. The B is way too experimental a cable to buy it blind for any monitor, unless you're rich as balls...

 

[tone.texture.soul]

I've listened to it with my u18t, during the 2018 Can Jam in London. I liked D so much I basically took it home from that show. Liked the B too but it wasn't as magical to me, I guess. The marketing lead there (who I think went on to found Eletech a year later) told me D was tuned to give you the sound of "modern in ear monitors" and B to sound like "a speaker system". So, as you know, in most good speaker systems there is this very strong, visceral, central bass image in the centre-bottom of the soundstage. It's massive. You can feel it move the air. And the rest of the sounds are set out on a horizontal plane slightly above it, all of them smaller than the bass, yet still quite 3D and well placed. But the bass is the black hole at the bottom of the plane, so to say. That's what B sounded like. Very speaker-like, but like a speaker system (mostly) in your head. It wasn't as out-of-your head to my memory as D. It was similar to D in its technical capabilities, and that it was warm-ish and detailed. But a very different approach to staging. It was a very interesting cable, and if I had infinite money I'd get that too, in a blink. Just because it was so interesting -- and pretty unique. It really set out to do its "like speakers" thing and then delivered on it with too.

Fourte, actually, might be an interesting fit for it. On paper at least. Fourte's bass is often too lean for my taste. Great, but could just be MORE of it. B definitely adds that. Then the Fourte's treble is often too sharp. To my memory B also had D's "less up front" treble, so it's likely B could do something about Fourte's hit and miss treble. Can't say what the soundstage will be like... Very interesting combo idea. Would love to hear from someone who's tried it (Vitaly in this thread?)

But I defa wouldn't put down 1400 USD for that experiment blind. The B is way too experimental a cable to buy it blind for any monitor, unless you're rich as balls...

It's really interesting how everyone's hearing is different. While we both fell in love with the Janus D, my feelings are different than yours. I was told by EA that the Janus D was the more "speaker sounding" and the Basso was more "head-fi" or modern and I definitely agree with this. I grew up around 2 Channel Hi-fi home systems and nothing I've heard comes as close to speaker sounding as the Janus D hands down. I have all Cardas wiring in my home wifi, which is pure Copper and they somehow make this as revealing and crazy resolution as anything you've ever heard. Some of their really expensive cables are even too revealing, go figure

So, the Janus D is more linear than the B, so everything is presented really clean, solid, with tons of space around the frequencies and not a lot, if any, additional anything like sparkle, forward upper mid presentation, or bass boom that is usually the trademark of TOTL cables vying for more details. The Janus D has as much if not more resolution than most cables but how it presents is different, using space and incredible layering to give every single instrument and detail the space it needs to be clearly heard in the stage. The stage is enormous too, throwing a lot of the treble details off to the sides to give that sense of space, keeping vocals and instruments in the mids clear and forward. The weight of instruments is more natural, bordering on thick, but always natural. By contrast the Basso has a boosted bass, so there is more of it, sounds weightier but not necessarily better. I personally love the D tuning of bass, giving just a bit of extra sub rumble to even out the entire bass spectrum. The Basso leans out the upper mids a little bit and adds more sparkle up top, not a lot but some. There is certainly more forward upper treble and sparkle in the B. So in the end, that perfect "magic" feeling you get with the Dynamic is somehow lost making the Basso more like all the other cables. And on the subject of treble, it's funny that the Janus gets this description of being softened treble, and that's jus not true. It just doesn’t add anything, but I A/B'd it for hours against the Leo II Octa and found the Janus D has more high end, the Leo simply had a push of forward upper mids. In the highest registers, the Janus had more detailed notes, reverb was clearer, voices and minute details were easily to hear and place. Weird right?

I do agree with you that the Janus does take just a bit of the lower treble feeling of the 18t away, keeping the whole mid response a bit thicker and more linear, which if people prefer that the Janus B might be their ticket. I totally agree with you that the magic of the two is by far the D. The Basso is cool, but sounds less natural, modern and even a bit scooped when compared to the D.

One thing I must mention, for anyone buying a brand new Janus. I found the high end was a bit soft and dark until after more than 250 hour of break-in, which is surprising for a copper cable. All the tiny details and crisp nuances are definitely there, it just took a bit for them to be show up, and I'm really glad I was patient enough to wait

On the subject of Fourte and Janus, I think it would be an amazing combo. But keep in mind that I found the Fourte to be a tad too thin in the upper mids, and the treble and transients were a tad rough for my taste too. So Janus D on Fourte would be a bit thicker, transients might be softened just a tad, and the whole feeling of semi awkward tuning of the Fourte would be somewhat corrected. I'd love to hear it, I think it would be magic. Just remember that the Janus is a HUGE cable, almost ridiculously so. I wear mine everyday, but it really took some getting used to. That's the trade-off for the amazing dynamic range with 24awg wire sound.

 

[tone.texture.soul]

Writing to shortly answer u18t / Iliad question, and compare it to Janus D.

Janus D is definitely for you if you want to really tame the treble of U18t. For me it took away the treble-forwardness of the u18t, rearranging the soundstage a little so that the treble elements (cymbals etc) sound more distant. I noticed this effect across many sources, so I would say the u18t's signature was altered, for a warmer and more distant in the high registers sound. The bass also became slower to my ears. The clean, forward, tia treble, and the somewhat lean but fast bass, are for me defining traits of the u18t (especially the forward treble, which I think it's the best in the world still). The Iliad, from the sources I've used it with (SP2000 and Cayin C9) does not add treble to the u18t and is not a "treble happy" or "sparkly" cable, instead its treble is neutral. It extends it and adds a little resolution and some dynamics (sounds funner somehow) to the treble. BUT! Understand that these are very very resolving TOTL sources. Combos that appear a little "tizzy" or trebbly tend to lose that unpleasant edge, when fed by a super high rez source like SP2000 or especially Cayin c9 amp. The only way I can explain this is: the people who make the cables (Eletech, Effect audio etc) probably tune them for those TOTL sources, because that's where the clientele is for 2000+ USD cables; they'll have those sources -- sources that are able to translate peaky treble into just very resolving treble.

With my dx200, for example, the Iliad sounded a little sibilant to me and messed up the cymbals (too prominent).

So, if you like a more "copper" and warmer sound Janus D is probably better than Iliad for you. I don't claim to be "objective", it's audio and everyone's source and ears are different, but I would say it's pretty widely said that Janus D is that kind of cable. Mind you, I'm not saying the D "lessens" treble, it actually adds a tiny low treble peak -- but what it does is set that treble further out in the soundstage. However, if you want a slightly wider soundstage than the Janus D, more forward-sounding (but not over the top, pretty much exactly where the stock u18t cable's treble was) treble, and an added element of "fastness" or "dynamics" that's hard to explain (the Janus D was also a bit slow to me on the bass, though others hear that slowness as "natural timbre") -- then the Iliad is for you.

It's definitely -- at the very least -- worth a try for all u18t owners, I'd say. If you have a shop where you can hear it -- totally, totally do it.

From what I've heard, the Iliad is also a little tamer on the treble than Code 51, but since I haven't heard that I can't compare the two any further. (Kinda thinkin' I should buy the Code 51 for my Noir, actually. I've heard interesting things about the combo)

In conclusion, to my taste and with my sources, the Iliad is the "truest" cable to the u18t's nature, adding a little dynamics, fun and a wider soundstage, without changing anything. But, mind you, I always listen to the u18t with m15 module and thus think what it "truly is" is that lean and ultra-holographic version of this IEM.

I've heard the 1950s is the ULTIMATE u18t cable and the combo is "revered in Asia" (big and exciting claim), but I've never felt propelled to get the 1950s because reviews say it's not the biggest soundstage out there for cables. And soundstage size is the most important thing for me in IEMs in general.

Thanks for all this info about the Illiad! I have started to look at it more closely now, I will try and find one.
I certainly know how ultra high end gear scales, and the better the source material and source are the better those potentially high end peaks will be delivered. I am listening on the A&K SE200 which is a wonderful player, with amazing detail especially considering how portable it is.

So, I had the Code 51 for a few days, and I've read every review about the Illiad I can find, and they all say the treble of the Illiad is more forward. While the Code 51 might be a bit more punchy, (even too intense and PRat for me) I worry that the brighter top end could be a problem for me. I also had the Leo Octa and found the tuning quite bizarre actually. That Palladium takes away some of the highest registers of treble, rolling off the details, while also bringing the upper mids forward without giving them the extra body and weight I would prefer. I was surprised really. I love the Janus D, but I want something smaller, and a bit more energetic for my second pair of 18t, so I will have both. Your words have certainly gotten me more interested in it!

What I would like is something like the Code 51, but 20% less explosive and intense, and a bit more relaxed and organic, and that does certainly sound like the Illiad. I'm not really a pure copper sound guy, usually too fat and dark for my tastes, the Janus being a notable exception. My experience with Palladium silver was the Leo and Leo Octa and I just didn't dig the signature. Sounds like the Illiad could be the one, I am just worried about the potentially too bright high end for me. Is it like Horus bright?

I am also using the 18t only with m15 module, and that open soundstage is very important to me as well!

Thanks again for all your help!