[deadlylover]

I guess what the other members are trying to say is that the increase in performance just comes from using 'better' amps, not from more power, since the calculations show that the cans aren't actually using up all the power.
It's well within the realm of possibility that an amp with better technical specs like slew rate and distortion could sound better than one with worse specs, especially if we can assume that the headphones don't push the power limits of the amplifier. And I think it's not too unfair to say that 'better' amps usually happen to be more powerful anyway.
 
This could probably be settled if someone compares the HE-6 with a good amp like a b22 and some random speaker amp that has a higher power output. That would probably settle the debate whether if it's the power, or the actual amplifier that makes the HE-6 sound better.
 
I think that sounds very reasonable, but what do I know =P.

 

[grokit]

Well the balanced Beta 22 is 11.2 watts into 32 ohms. If my 45 watt into 8 ohm balanced speaker amp translates to 11.25 watts into 32 ohm then they are roughly the same power. So comparing those two amplifiers wouldn't accomplish much except for perhaps validating the Beta 22's exceptional SQ reputation over more pedestrian offerings.
 
The OP's final comparisons have more merit as the Beta 22 has much more power than the other headphone amps he was comparing to. What you have described is basically the same as what I have been discussing, which is taking a $2000 2 watt headphone amp with a good reputation (WA22) and comparing it to a $200 balanced speaker amp with much more power like my Alesis RA150.
 
The dedicated K1000 jack of the Woo WA5 utilizes that amplifier's full 6 watts of speaker power as well, as opposed the the "normal" headphone jack on it which is 1.5 watts. A selling feature perhaps, but an extremely valid one. 
 
The Beta 22 is just as powerful even in it's 5.6 watt single-ended state as the Woo's K1000 jack, the Lyr, or my Alesis so I guess it's entirely unnecessary as well as there isn't a headphone on earth that needs more than one watt.

 
I didn't mean to completely distract from what is a well written and enjoyable review and comparison of top headphones; I just wanted to present my viewpoint on the one small fact that I happen to disagree with. I think that the HE-6, like the K1000, thrives on much more power than the 1 or 2 watts most headphone amps have to offer; to my ears they improve with at least 3 times that.
 
How much is too much? On paper is one thing, but in the HE-6 thread people were reporting hooking them up to 140 watts into 8 ohm speaker terminals without consequence, just like I have read regarding the K1000.
 
In the immortal words of Buzz Lightyear, we won't know the outer limit of either headphone until we have gone too far, so we can hear for ourselves. Just remember to always start with the volume set low.

 

[Frank I]

^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree the power planar in general can gobble up as much as you can give them. I had Maggie speakers and 200W was dring them and people are using 1000W amps with Maggies. I believe the HE6 is the most difficult to drive headphone I have experienced and 6W speaker amps are really terrific. The quality of the amps also makes a difference as my 2220B Marantz sound very good but the Taboo stomps it for musicality.

 

[Happy Camper]

I got my passive attenuator and my oh my what a difference. I've been controlling volume in the software. Being able to get the signal back to full strength really brought out the details. And as for power, I'm running 70 wpc and decided to give the HE-6 a try at full throttle. No distortion, just loud, sweet music. This weekend, I want to try a couple 125 watt monoblocks and another whirl with the 40 watt tube amp.
 
For the price of an attenuator, you can use whatever power amps you want.

 

[n3rdling]

Quote:

 
How much ias too much? On paper is one thing, but in the HE-6 thread people were reporting hooking them up to 140 watts into 8 ohm speaker terminals without consequence, just like I have read regarding the K1000.
 

What people are saying is that the headphone is never going to pull anywhere near that much power.  You can have a million WPC amp and it doesn't mean you're going to be using everything the amp's got to run the LCD2.  If you did you'd blow the drivers instantly.  Most headphones should have a maximum amount of power they can handle, IIRC the LCD2's is something like 15W without damaging the drivers.
 

 

[grokit]

Quote:

What people are saying is that the headphone is never going to pull anywhere near that much power.  You can have a million WPC amp and it doesn't mean you're going to be using everything the amp's got to run the LCD2.  If you did you'd blow the drivers instantly.  Most headphones should have a maximum amount of power they can handle, IIRC the LCD2's is something like 15W without damaging the drivers.

 
 
No one is talking about giving the LCD-2 that kind of power. I have already described how the LCD-2 can be driven quite nicely out of my 2 watt WA22 and don't really improve with more power like the HE-6 does.
 
OTOH, I just realized that the HifiMAN planars are the only other mass-produced headphone that I can think of to come stock with a 4-pin balanced connector and have a speaker amp adapter/extension cable available from the manufacturer besides the AKG K1000...
...probably just a coincidence 

 

[n3rdling]

Sorry, was using the LCD2 as an example; the same applies to the HE6 and K1000.

 

[grokit]

I currently own all three and the HE-6 and the K1000 both need more power to be driven well than the LCD-2 does; they also need a higher position on the dial to reach the same volume level. I can drive the LCD-2 well out of amps that don't cut the mustard with the HE-6 or K1000, while the LCD-2 doesn't improve similarly with more power to my ears.

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

I currently own all three and the HE-6 and the K1000 both need more power to be driven well than the LCD-2 does; they also need a higher position on the dial to reach the same volume level. I can drive the LCD-2 well out of amps that don't cut the mustard with the HE-6 or K1000, while the LCD-2 doesn't improve similarly with more power to my ears.

 
Well stated and I agree.
 
No, they do not need that much power to sound great. But neither does a street sedan need 550 hp.

  There are parts of a song that demands some attention that extra power opens up. It's good to know you can't damage them before damaging your ears.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I'm still green in DIY but,
is it possible that higher rated power amplifiers perform better than lower rated one on the same load? Maybe less distortion? 

Yup, but more importantly, some people forget the nature of real music when they're reading specs on a marketing slick.  Music is related to a 1kHz sine wave as the Himalayas are related to the gently rolling hills of the Midwest US.   The two do not compare in formidability of scale.   An amplifier's power rating, based upon reproduction of a sine wave, does not begin to tell the whole story with regard to it's capacity to reproduce real music faithfully.  
 
 

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

Yup, but more importantly, some people forget the nature of real music when they're reading specs on a marketing slick.  Music is related to a 1kHz sine wave as the Himalayas are related to the gently rolling hills of the Midwest US.   The two do not compare in formidability of scale.   An amplifier's power rating, based upon reproduction of a sine wave, does not begin to tell the whole story with regard to it's capacity to reproduce real music faithfully.  
 
 

 
True in theory.  The speaker manufacturer KEF once calculated that if a track was using on average 2 watts or so, a rim shot on a snare drum might need 8,000 watts to reproduce accurately - and that's easy to imagine, if you're familiar with live music.  Having said that, because no microphone or recorder or amp or speaker could handle that dynamic range, most music isn't recorded accurately - in fact compression is now so pervasive that a range as low as +/- 3db is becoming common.  Recorded music these days is a test tone.  So there's more to the HE-6 mystery than that.
 
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

True in theory.  The speaker manufacturer KEF once calculated that if a track was using on average 2 watts or so, a rim shot on a snare drum might need 8,000 watts to reproduce accurately - and that's easy to imagine, if you're familiar with live music.  Having said that, because no microphone or recorder or amp or speaker could handle that dynamic range, most music isn't recorded accurately - in fact compression is now so pervasive that a range as low as +/- 3db is becoming common.  Recorded music these days is a test tone.  So there's more to the HE-6 mystery than that.

I don't know about the music you listen to, but I wouldn't listen to something that sounds like a television commercial.  (television commercials are now the standard of repulsiveness in compressed audio)
 
The music I listen to is largely uncompressed and natural.  Yes, it can be found, and crest factors and dynamic range are well understood by the recording industry.  Real life dynamic range of real music can be accommodated by today's gear, and since it can, why settle for something less?  Unless of course, your music catalog consists of television commercials.  

 
 
 

 

[InnerSpace]

Quote:

Real life dynamic range of real music can be accommodated by today's gear ...
 

Are you kidding?  I must say, for an engineer, you make a lot of very unrealistic statements.  You seriously think that today's gear can reproduce the real-life dynamic range of a drum kit?  An orchestra?  Even a flute?  Or maybe you just argue for the sake of it.
 

 

[Danz03]

Yes, it certainly can, most recording systems nowadays record at 24bit, which is roughly 144 dB dynamic range (a drum kit is around 115 dB), more than what a human can possibly hear, and it is definitely possible to reproduce that especially in a studio environment.
However, it is near impossible to find something non-classical nowadays on CD that is not heavily compressed. 

 
Quote:

Are you kidding?  I must say, for an engineer, you make a lot of very unrealistic statements.  You seriously think that today's gear can reproduce the real-life dynamic range of a drum kit?  An orchestra?  Even a flute?  Or maybe you just argue for the sake of it.
 

 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Are you kidding?  I must say, for an engineer, you make a lot of very unrealistic statements.  You seriously think that today's gear can reproduce the real-life dynamic range of a drum kit?  An orchestra?  Even a flute?  Or maybe you just argue for the sake of it.

As I just said to a friend of mine, you have to open your mind before you can open your ears.  So I guess, we'll have to agree to disagree.  The facts back up what I said, the rest is up to you to accept or not.