[RasmusseN]

Hi, I am knew to Head-Fi I joined to learn more and get a better Audio Setup my post is going to be long and maybe boring for some of you but please bare with me.

I'd like to start out with my current setup:
I am using my onboard Realtek ALC883
My headphones are Sennheiser HD555

edit: forgot what to specify what I use my Headphones for I play games and listen to classic rock

Changing my equalizer a few days ago with some help really made me see the power these headphones had to offer to be frank I was Impressed.

I'd like to ask a few easy questions for you guys first

Is it worth getting an amp, sound card, or DAC for these headphones? Will I see a noticable difference? Will I be happy about spending $300 for an AMP or DAC?

What is a DAC? what exactly does it do for the sound?

What is a amp? What exactly does it do for the sound?

I've learned a little amount of stuff from my computer friend who happens to be into audio and he directed me to this site. I first though X-Fi was really good than soon changed after understanding more about amps and DACs correctly. From what I was told there is an amp and a DAC in sound cards already but there generally low quality.

I than thought to myself why get an X-Fi with a crappy amp and DAC when I can get an individual Amp and DAC outside my computer that sounds better from what I've heard.

I started looking at amps and dacs and soon found HeadRoom
I know you guys are probably going to tell me the ones I thought were good suck but I have to learn somehow.

HeadRoom Micro Amp
HeadRoom Micro DAC ( with desktop module )

I want to make my sound better so I figured I'd get this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16829120103

a long with a that DAC than buy an amp when I get the money ( keep in mind I am 17 and I buy everything on my own not going to spend a lot of money )

I was told going optical from that sound card to a DAC would sound like crap and I'd have more luck going with an amp first so what do you guys think of that amp with that sound card than when I get the money for the DAC buy that to complete my setup. Keep in mind I don't want to have to buy a new amp or DAC for awhile and I want them to be able to power a nice pair of headphones so when I decide it's time to get new headphones lets say HD600, HD650 I already will have an amp and DAC to power them nicely. I will not be taking short leaps buying tons of pairs of headphones my HD555 were the start and I will jump straight to HD600 or HD650 instead of wasting money in the middle.

Thank you for reading my post

-James

 

[Uncle Erik]

Welcome to Head-Fi!

To begin with, an amplifier makes your signal louder. Even at lower volumes, your headphones will be driven more fully with one. They are an excellent investment in your system.

A DAC is a digital/analog converter. They take the digital output from your computer or other digital source (DAP, CD player, Squeezebox, etc.) and convert it to an analog signal for your amp and headphones.

The HeadRoom gear you mentioned is good stuff. I was just about to recommend the Total Bithead to you. It's a good, portable amp with a built-in USB DAC. Plug the DAC into your computer and you'll have both a DAC and amp for $199. It's a good deal.

Whoever told you that optical out to a DAC sounded bad was wrong. It sounds good. There's some argument over whether optical out or coax out (both digital) is better. I use both and find them to sound about the same. And both sound excellent.

If you're looking for a DAC with optical/coax digital inputs, the Chaintech AV-710 you linked to is a great deal. The price is right.

If you're looking for a further upgrade, I'd suggest dropping the HD-555 on the For Sale Forum. It's a good headphone, certainly much better than most out there, but there's a huge bargain out there right now: the Sennheiser HD-580, selling for $124 at Amazon. The HD-580 can wipe the floor with the HD-555. Much better headphone, and it'll get you 95% of the way towards a HD-650.

If you spend $199 for the Total Bithead, sell the HD-555 and buy the HD-580, you should come out under $300 and have a setup far better than your current one.

 

[dizzyorange]

A DAC takes digital audio information (1's and 0's) and converts it to analog audio information (continuous wave).

An amp takes this wave and amplifies it into a stronger electrical signal to drive speakers or headphones.

The chaintech AV710 is highly regarded on this forum as having a very good onboard DAC for the price. It's a great start.

Optical out from that sound card to a DAC would certainly not sound like crap. But the onboard DAC is more than sufficient for your current headphones.

An entry-level amplifier will not benefit the HD555 enough to make it worthwhile. If you interesting in trying, you can buy a LDM, Go-vibe, or other portable-type amp on the For Sale Forums for about $40-50. The cool thing is that if you don't like it, you can sell them back on the same forums for close to if not exactly the same price you bought them as.

So, IMO, the way to maximum increase in sound quality with limited funds is to get in order:

1. Source: Chaintech AV710
2. Headphones: HD580 ($125 on amazon, is a great deal, will get you to 80% of the HD650s, and are better than the 650s according to some)
3. Amplifier: the sweet spot is $150 - 250. Recommend looking at Corda Headfive, PIMETA, Millet Hybrid, Eddie Current Lunchbox, and others will give you many more suggestions.
4. DAC

The headroom micro amp and DAC you mentioned are highly regarded on this forum, but are generally considered to be of slightly lower performance-to-cost ratio than other solutions if you buy them new.

 

[RasmusseN]

I did not expect such fast replies but that's good I like forums with fast replies :-D

so basically the HD555 aren't worth getting the amp or DAC I posted? I didn't plan on keeping the HD555 forever I was just saying till I get the amp and dac setup so I have some power ready for the next headphones I buy.

I wan't to slowly buy my audio setup and space it out because I am saving money in the process but I will put money aside for each paycheck till I reach my goal to buy one of them ( DAC or amp till I have both).

In regard to the Total Bithead I think that that is pretty good for what I have now most likely but that's not really what I was going for. I want to start my setup now and be ready for better headphones while the Total Bithead wouldn't be good enough for lets say HD600 or HD650 right?

I just got these HD555 not too long ago seems kind of a waste to sell them and get the HD580 when I don't have anything really to power them with besides onboad audio they wouldn't sound much better than the HD555 with onboard at least.

edit: btw this isn't for portable use purely for my desktop computer. I don't want something ugly looking or BIG it has to be on the smaller side don't have much room on my desk. I also had a question about noise coming from a DAC or amp do they actually make noise I have an extremely quiet computer and I wouldn't like to hear any buzzing sounds or anything.

Thanks

James

 

[Lectorcito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Welcome to Head-Fi! The HD-580 can wipe the floor with the HD-555. Much better headphone, and it'll get you 95% of the way towards a HD-650.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD580 ($125 on amazon, is a great deal, will get you to 80% of the HD650s, and are better than the 650s according to some)

Hold on! We need to know who is right here!

 

[luckybaer]

There certainly isn't anything wrong with the HeadRoom Micro DAC and Micro Amp combo - a.k.a. "The Micro Stack."

In my set-up, I find the "Stack" to give me a pretty neutral presentation of the music with a wide soundstage. There just seems to be a lot of "air" and "clarity." The components really seem to work well together. Smooth and neutral are a couple of adjectives I use to describe the experience.

With this combo, you get an amplifier that has crossfeed, 3-position gain, and the ability to run on batteries or AC power through the wall-wart (included). The DAC accepts optical, coaxial, or USB inputs, and, like the amp, is powered either by batteries or by AC power.

Aesthetically, the two components obviously go together like peanut butter and jelly, sitting on top of each other nicely. Being a "portable" set-up, all the cables (except for power) are on the front panel, which may or many not be an issue for you. One wish: I wish that the combo would charge batteries, but they don't. My Hornet does, and I find that convenient (my PA2v2 does, too, but it doesn't stop charging when the batts are full like the Hornet).

I'm pretty sure that you'll have no problems driving your HD650 with the Micro Stack combo. It easily handles my headphone collection: DT880, DT770/80, K601, E4c, KSC-75, etc.

The combination is borderline portable - maybe "transportable" is a better word. I couldn't see myself carrying these things (or even just the amp) around while I was doing chores, shopping, on mass transit, etc. Each individual piece is 2x as big as the Hornet, so if you take 'em both with you, you're carrying the equivalent of 4 Hornets. Just for some size perspective...

Make sure you really plan on using the stuff a lot. You're looking at spending $600 on the "Stack" and around $300 or so on your cans. When you throw in cables, shipping, and all that other stuff, you're going to be pushing $950 or more.

Another thing to consider: You'll never know how good you have it unless you hear some lower-end stuff. I know I appreciate my set-up a lot more now since I started out with Sony MDR-V300 headphones plugged directly into my sound card.

 

[Gonz]

Theres many good suggestions above.

First and foremost, the Realtek has to go.

I'm really happy with my kit, and it wasn't expensive. My main listening setup is Foobar > Audigy > Home Vibe > Senn 485. I really don't feel the need to upgrade this. If I move forward (or up), it'll be for nothing but the fun of doing so.

If you want to go for the Headroom DAC, so be it. You can grab a Go-Vibe for the amp. It'll hold you over well, and inexpensively, while you save up for the Headroom amp. If you go this route, I'd probably do the headphones last, maybe try and squeeze a pair of phones from the parents for your birthday or something.

ETA: No, the DAC and amp will not make any buzzing sounds

 

[The Monkey]

Good first post. Welcome to head-fi.

I think the MicroStack is excellent and will make a big difference in how you listen to music. It eats batteries for lunch, though, with the Desktop module.

To me a nice DAC does two very important things: 1) Keeps it black between the notes, eliminates artificial decay and 2) as a result, maintains much better pace, rhythm, and timing.

 

[Gonz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzyorange /img/forum/go_quote.gif A DAC takes digital audio information (1's and 0's) and converts it to analog audio information (continuous wave). An amp takes this wave and amplifies it into a stronger electrical signal to drive speakers or headphones. The chaintech AV710 is highly regarded on this forum as having a very good onboard DAC for the price. It's a great start.

I agree with all of this, except one thing. You gave really good explanations, I'd just suggest a Creative sound card. More options, more versatile. I'm not saying I'd necessarily go for an X-Fi, as according to reviews, the only thing putting this card above the Audigy 2 ZS is the "sound processing" options, of which I don't usually like things like that. Second, the X-Fi does use a bit more processor, though its probably not enough to notice.
From what I've read on the new gen, the 24bit A2-ZS should be a steal at its current price point.

Quote:

Optical out from that sound card to a DAC would certainly not sound like crap. But the onboard DAC is more than sufficient for your current headphones.

Agreed. And probably most headphones on up too!

I'm not a real big believer in external DACs w/PCs. Laptops yes, PCs not really necessary IMO. I've never noticed anything like RF interference.

Quote:

So, IMO, the way to maximum increase in sound quality with limited funds is to get in order: 1. Source: Chaintech AV710 2. Headphones: HD580 ($125 on amazon, is a great deal, will get you to 80% of the HD650s, and are better than the 650s according to some) 3. Amplifier: the sweet spot is $150 - 250. Recommend looking at Corda Headfive, PIMETA, Millet Hybrid, Eddie Current Lunchbox, and others will give you many more suggestions. 4. DAC

I can't argue too much there, to be honest. Its a good way to go.
My own budget list would be:

Source: Audigy2 ZS or X-Fi
Phones: Senn HD485 ($65ish) or HD580
Amp: Go-Vibe, Xtra X1, C&C Box, Minibox, or the LD Micro Tube maybe.
DAC: dead last.

My signature covers my own budget toys. For some reason, I have more fun comparing different things, than just spending a lump sum on one thing. I also dedicate alot of funds to home (speaker) and car audio as well, so headphones are where I can experiment more freely, and cost/labor effectively.

Open phones, closed phones, and in-ear types are quite different, for example. I also make my own cables... which you should definitely try for yourself. Might not save money, but it's a crucial component you can make for yourself and experiment with.

Limiting yourself to just one amp, or just one set of phones, takes away the fun... just my opinion.

 

[RasmusseN]

What do you think of this? buying in this order and completing my setup after these

1.CHAINTECH AV-710
2.HeadRoom Micro AMP (Desktop Module)
3.Headroom Micro DAC
4.Sennheiser HD650

or

1.CHAINTECH AV-710
2.HeadRoom Micro DAC
3.Headroom Micro AMP (Desktop Module)
4.Sennheiser HD650

I am thinking since the cables are hooked in fromt the front I would like to get some short angled cables so it still looks clean just big enough to reach the other device

from side view the boxes something like this: yes, I know good paint skills.

I would like to put the Micro Stack where my headphones are in this picture do you think I will have a problem fitting it there? is it okay to be close to the computer?
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/4...uter004qu9.jpg

 

[illy2k]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RasmusseN /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you think of this? buying in this order and completing my setup after these 1.CHAINTECH AV-710 2.HeadRoom Micro AMP (Desktop Module) 3.Headroom Micro DAC 4.Sennheiser HD650 or 1.CHAINTECH AV-710 2.HeadRoom Micro DAC 3.Headroom Micro AMP (Desktop Module) 4.Sennheiser HD650 I am thinking since the cables are hooked in fromt the front I would like to get some short angled cables so it still looks clean just big enough to reach the other device from side view the boxes something like this: yes, I know good paint skills.

First off there is no reason to get a DAC and New Sound Card together. A DAC is a sound card but in a different form. The headroom MicroDAC is USB, so you hook it up to your pc, it sees it as an audio output device and you bypass your current sound card, so, there is no reason to upgrade to both. Go for the microDAC since it is portable and can be used on any machine with a USB port. Then I would suggest getting the 650's and amp at the same time. Since your current cans really don't need an amp it would be a waste to have a 650 w/o and amp, and also a waste to have an amp w/o headphones that need it. If anything though go amp then 650's.

About your paint skillz, ALO makes cables such as that, they also make iPod to mini cables.

 

[RasmusseN]

ahh I was just wondering this

I read a post about this that confused me I was like how does he plug it into the DAC? I thought it came from the optical out on a soundcard

Your idea seems very good to me I think i'll do that. An amp wouldn't do anything for my HD555 but will the DAC?

I know this will cost more and I probably won't even consider it but how would the Micro Stack compare to the HeadRoom Desktop Amp with a Desktop DAC? just outa curiousity.

I like these cables but WOW are they expensive is that normal?

I may look into making my own cables

found some less expensive cabling that looks good enough thinking this still may be too long

 

[Happy Camper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by luckybaer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Another thing to consider: You'll never know how good you have it unless you hear some lower-end stuff. I know I appreciate my set-up a lot more now since I started out with Sony MDR-V300 headphones plugged directly into my sound card.

Do you start with the fugliest dates and work up?

Go to chain stores to hear how bad it can sound. Don't use your money. There are no benefits to start out with a sucky system. Get the best you can afford (do your homework) and appreciate the sound. Your not second guessing the money spent and you have better sq sooner/longer making it a better value. You see people upgrade until they are satisfied with their sound. Then they stop. It may not be the most expensive, top of the line, superduperpooperscooper. But it makes them happy.

If finances guide the decision, go used and get what your finances allow. The issue is "I want it now" vs "save to get what I want". If you are not working, letting folks know what your desires are will let them pitch in to get that piece. If they really like you, you might get that piece. Then buy/sell from here to help those coming behind you.

A common guideline:

- headphones

Spend at least half your money on the speaker/headphone. This device makes the sound you hear. Get the best you can afford. Since you have value in your current senns, use it to offset cost to your goal. If you like the current sound, try an amp first. You might stick with your current setup and then you can put more resources into a bigger amp. Of the components, the headphones are the least expensive. If you get a good delivery system, you can cycle thru headphones until you find your mate. Then tweak with tubes, opamps, ICs to get the best out of them.

- source
bad in / bad out

DSP only makes it sound "really" bad. Buying something you can't hear because of lesser quality cans is a waste as well. (example: buy a Meridian or Ayre player using inexpensive headphones that can't duplicate the quality)

At some price point, a "on board" DAC has to function as good as an "out board" one. Otherwise, why buy a $$$ source? I personally do not feel a DAC is needed for most audio sources. It might make some less expensive units sound better. I bought a tube output DAC for a $400 laserdisc player (now laptop) to ease the hard digital sound. It sounds good enough that I won't upgrade my computer card.

When you start getting into $$$ components, then you may like a particular DAC sound better with your headphones. Then you are wasting your money on the DAC section of a player and thus affect the maker's sound signature. My experience is that a clean line out sounds pretty good. There are exceptions but budget constraints leave a DAC as that last 5-10% investment along with cables.

What do you want to do? Build a better source with a-sound card or b-out board components. If you want flexibility, (using different sources, DSP functions, portable) go "out board". Personally, "out boards" give you better value over time. Especially if you are using computer files for sources. You upgrade computers sooner than audio gear because they design obsolesence into computers. If you go "out board" components, you can get one piece now and if options change, you can change/add. Your piece can be used longer.

- amp

I feel it is an extension of the source. Amps become necessary (components that don't have a headphone out) to take the sound to it's next level (depending on your source and hearing ability). You can hear "deeper" into the music with less volume depending on the quality/quantity of the power supply. (When you get older, you will appreciate the help an amp gives. Maybe getting one sooner will help you keep what hearing you have longer) The quieter details are heard at lower volumes which means less fatigue. Then there are moments when you want more volume to get that satisfaction from a recording.

How do you know what is to be your goal? Go to a meet or retailer to listen to headphones. Decide what headphone maker you like best and work from there to see what components compliment them. The most impact on sound are the headphones. (Generally)

This is just one opinion and this is an opinion question. As you can see, there are several angles to view this. Good luck and "Sorry bout the wallet"

. But do let us know your decisions and impressions as it assists others. What you do is not right or wrong. You Win (unless you don't get anything).

 

[Happy Camper]

ahh I was just wondering this

I read a post about this that confused me I was like how does he plug it into the DAC? I thought it came from the optical out on a soundcard

Your idea seems very good to me I think i'll do that. An amp wouldn't do anything for my HD555 but will the DAC?

I know this will cost more and I probably won't even consider it but how would the Micro Stack compare to the HeadRoom Desktop Amp with a Desktop DAC? just outa curiousity.

I like these cables but WOW are they expensive is that normal?

I may look into making my own cables

found some less expensive cabling that looks good enough thinking this still may be too long[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is normal (price wise). And yes you need a digital connector determined by the one used by the amp/DAC and source. Either optical or 75 ohm coax. They also make speciality cables for conversion. http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/d...ables.html#pro

If you make your cables, make them hardy enough for use. Portables are very hard on a cable in a hip bag.

Have you heard your headphones with an amp? Say a tube amp? You should try before buying anything of cost. They sell alot of amps here.

 

[RasmusseN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by illy2k /img/forum/go_quote.gif First off there is no reason to get a DAC and New Sound Card together. A DAC is a sound card but in a different form. The headroom MicroDAC is USB, so you hook it up to your pc, it sees it as an audio output device and you bypass your current sound card, so, there is no reason to upgrade to both. Go for the microDAC since it is portable and can be used on any machine with a USB port. Then I would suggest getting the 650's and amp at the same time. Since your current cans really don't need an amp it would be a waste to have a 650 w/o and amp, and also a waste to have an amp w/o headphones that need it. If anything though go amp then 650's. About your paint skillz, ALO makes cables such as that, they also make iPod to mini cables.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RasmusseN /img/forum/go_quote.gif ahh I was just wondering this I read a post about this that confused me I was like how does he plug it into the DAC? I thought it came from the optical out on a soundcard Your idea seems very good to me I think i'll do that. An amp wouldn't do anything for my HD555 but will the DAC? I know this will cost more and I probably won't even consider it but how would the Micro Stack compare to the HeadRoom Desktop Amp with a Desktop DAC? just outa curiousity. I like these cables but WOW are they expensive is that normal? I may look into making my own cables found some less expensive cabling that looks good enough thinking this still may be too long

sorry, I saw your quote on me it didn't make much sense

I should of quoted his post so I decided to do it now.