[blackreplica]

Hi everybody,

I recently got myself a pair of DT-770/80 Pros. I'm a self confessed basshead, and was looking for a good set of home cans to complement my westone UM2 which are my portables

Imagine my shock when i played these things for the first time, and found the bass seriously lacking. This was about 2 days ago. The kind of bass i got what just this light thump, with the mids and highs absolutely drowning out anything below 300Hz. Their bass was very Senn HD595-like, there, but hardly noticable, and unlike the senns, the bass was audibly much lower in level compared to the rest of the spectrum. They dont even come close to matching the raw bass clarity & impact of my UM2s. These can't be the best bass headphones have to offer, can they? Where's the head shaking stuff or brain punching bass everyone is talking about? All i hear is this very soft (and sometimes muddy) thud in the background.

So i emailed the shop i bought the cans from, they are very helpful guys over there. They offered some possibilities, first that it's defective, although i doubt it's possible. Second, and this seems quite likely, that these cans need a really powerful amp to sing. I currently use a Iriver H140 and a MINT battery-powered amp. I am quite dubious that a more powerful amp will work though because i can get very loud using the amp i have, just that there is no bass! And the mids and/or treble becomes very very scratchy and harsh. Some songs, especially rock songs (specifically, Garbage - Why do you love me) is completely unlistenable cos its just too harsh. I can almost feel my ears bleeding. And no kick in the head bass to make me feel better either.

When i first got the phones and discovered the deficiencies, i tried buring them in for about 6 hours with very low level pink noise. After that, i didnt hear a difference. I tried some other stuff as well with Shibatch's EQ plugin for winamp.

Now here's the strange part: When i first EQed it, i had a broad cut of about 4db from 400Hz to 12000Hz and this actually sounded better! Then i went to have dinner, came back, and found the EQ setting absolultely crap and found a flat setting better again. I keep going back and forth when messing around with these cans, sometimes i think they sound marvellous, then i play some other music, and it sounds terrible. Then i EQ it, and it sounds better. then i play something else later on, and find the EQ settings i am using are horrible, and it goes back to flat...and so on and on....

I was hoping i could get some input on this. i searched and searched but couldnt find much info from anyone who might have faced this problem. If things dont improve over the weekend i will be forced to mail the phones back to the shop for them to test to see if it's defective.

Funnily enough, i am listening to the Manger test cd, filled with high quality recording classical, jazz and instrumental as well as acapella music and they sound absolutely fantastic. But they still sound thin and sometimes screechy when playing trance, which is the exact opposite of what i expected (and what i wanted!).

I was looking for some general feedback on this, but some questions which i was also hoping to get answered is this: How critical is a powerful amp to getting these phones to really bump, and i mean get 100% bass, no less. I am wondering if my MINT is up to the task. Or is this an issue of burning in (i am not a big believer of burning in so i remain doubtful about this), or something else entirely?

Thanks in advance for the help, and damn you all for making my wallet a lot emptier than it was before i found this place.

Kevin

 

[Murdoch]

Thats the same reaction I had when I demo'ed a set at guitar center a year ago though some recording console they had on the floor. That definitely had insufficient amplification, but I was left with the distinct impression that the dt770-80 was too bright for my tastes regardless of how the bass might improve when properly amped.

Maybe the 770-80 just isn't for you, or maybe the bass will bloom with more burn in?

 

[tkam]

It is possible that they are defective, even if they aren't getting enough power the bass should still overshadow the rest of the audio spectrum.

 

[blackreplica]

I thought i would also include some measurements i took of these cans as well. A disclaimer: These are probably not an accurate response measurement by any means!! All i did was put my mic where my ear should be and measured the response from the cup. I also include comparison measurements i took of my friends HD595 and HD650.

A picture tells a thousand words: i'm not saying the 770s have the response i am posting here, but if i could describe what they sounded like, this response would describe it almost perfectly. Weak bass, overly strong mids, and a harsh peak somewhere in the treble

Anyway, here they are:

Beyer 770/80 Pro
Right Channel

Left Channel

Senn HD590
Right Channel

Left Channel

Senn HD650
Right Channel

Left Channel

Anyway, its just so wierd.....it seems now as if these headphones are pretty damn AWESOME with my manger test cd....instruments, percussion, bass, drums, all seems soooo balanced...watch me change my mind about that in 5 mins when switch to my trance cds....argh whats going on lol

 

[tkam]

I think you should go exchange them, if those graphs really represent how they sound to you then something is wrong with them.

 

[blackreplica]

hi guys and thanks for the reply....actually the treble is not that big of a concern to me though the bass definitely is. If the treble stayed the way it was, and the bass improved, then i would already be quite happy with these phones. its possible that the trouble i have with the treble comes from the fact that the bass is so deficient...so i end up turning up the volume, and this absolutely overpowers the mids and treble to get any kind of audible bass. If i got good bass at lower volumes, i wouldnt have to turn it up so much. I definitely dont notice poor treble when listening to classical or jazz though....they sound supremely balanced with these genres. Even the bass sounds pretty balanced for some reason. but with trance, everything goes to hell, and i dont mean in a good way

the fact that these cans supposedly have overpowering bass even when running unamped is pretty much the reason why i am posting here....its not like that with me at all.

 

[blackreplica]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkam I think you should go exchange them, if those graphs really represent how they sound to you then something is wrong with them.

Well i wouldnt go so far as to say they sound exactly like that, the response i posted is pretty horrendous. But very similar for sure, maybe with the seal to my head, the bass is a little better, and maybe the mids aren't *that* loud but its definitely not far from what you see in the graph.

 

[Murdoch]

I had a set of dt250-250's that had a manufacturing defect that resulted in loss of bass. This was verified by gerG who bought them from me to "work on". (you can find his results in the dt250 vs dt250 thread).

I think the dt250-250 uses the 770 drivers. Maybe Beyer has some persistent quality control problems these days?

 

[blackreplica]

I just read that thread. Its interesting, and those responses he posted sound very much like the problem i am facing now. a big hole where the bass response should be. It would be quite surprising if these phones suffered from the same defect though. I love the way the 'fixed' response looks, if the beyers are anything like that, i expect i should be very happy with them.

I'll definitely be sending these cans back come monday morning for the experts to check out

Mandatory pic of my rig is hereby included

(sorry for the crap pic, it was taken off my phone)

 

[kramer5150]

I would take it back the the shop and request an exchange or at least A/B compare them with another pair.

Note they are a low impedence can and therefore benefieit from a high current/low voltage amp circuit. They absolutely thunder with my PA2 and DIY cmoy.

Does you amp have fresh batteries?... cant think of anything else... a Mint should be plenty of juice for them.

Garrett

 

[mverscho]

Hi blackreplica,

It sounds to me like you have defective cans. The 80-ohm are relatively easy to drive, but apparently do require an amp (even a small one will work - I think your MINT should be enough) to sound their best. Burn-in is supposed to tame the high end and make the bass less boomy and a bit more articulate, so I don't think that would've helped...

It was a very good idea to compare the 770s to other phones using objective measurements, but you really need to get a good seal between the pads and the mic with a solid material, especially with closed phones like the DT770; the bass response drops off severely with a bad seal.

The HD650s should make a good reference; try measuring with a better seal, then
comparing your results to those at Headroom . The graphs should look similar, which your previous measuements do, except for the roll-off around 800Hz.

Hope this helps...

Cheers,
Mark

 

[Jahn]

Garbage - Why do you love me is a REALLY crappily recorded track. It's a hissfest with garbly scratches all over it, truly nigh-unlistenable on my Grados (barely passable on my forgiving KSC-35). The DT770's high sensitivity to the high freqs is probably bumping up that nastiness to ear bleed levels.

I found that my old stock DT770/80s from a cmoy brought the bass - i remember using TLC's "No Scrubs" to check it out, find that track somewhere, it drops that trunk rattling subwoofer bass. If it doesn't blow your eardrums out, your cans must be defective.

 

[kramer5150]

Hey blackreplica.... Not to hijack your thread.... if this is too OT just PM me and I'll edit this post.

what software RTA are you using for those graphs?

is it shareware?... downloadable?

IM using TrueRTA... but it increments are not precise enough for detailed measurements. I like your graphs very detailed measurement increments
heres a pic...

thanks,
Garrett

 

[blackreplica]

Wow there are so many replies to i'll try to answer them one by one.

The batteries on my mint amp are definitely fresh, i got a new pair the moment the headphones arrived(anticipating many hours of intial listening). I'm absolutely sure the amp is 100% working.

The headphones definitely dont thunder with my MINT. It sounds very good with michael buble-type music ATM but still sounds weak on trance/eurodance, which is 90% of my music collection.

Hahah it was nice to point out that garbage's music is poorly recorded, i know, its true. but i love their music so much, they and everclear are pretty much the only rock bands i listen to at all and its the first time i came across such a high frequency mess when listening to that song. my westones and shures played the song with ease and not a hint of harshness, although that might be because of the rolled off highs compared to the beyer. Also, i have that TLC song "No scrubs", i've had that album since i was 17 or something, although i didnt listen to it much, no scrubs was IMO the only nice song and i wasted my money. I'm listening to it now, and although the vocals and treble are really good, that rumbly bass that cuts in from time to time is really weak, it's audible, but that it, definitely no thundering or anything like that. its hard to judge with hearing along but i would say the bassline is at least 5db down(probably more) than the vocals.

I'm starting to really hope it's defective and that once i send it back, i'll get back a pair of phones which has the bass i want and i'll be happy.

and last of all, my speaker measurement software. Kramer, the method i use for measuring my headphones is MLS (or maximum length sequence) instead of RTA style software like yours. The reason the graph is so precise if because MLS captures the frequency response on a continuous basis as opposed to RTAs which capture fixed frequencies, thus lacking resolution. Its a bit trickier to set up and use but infinitely better for measuring, at least for loudspeaker. Of course, like any measurement, its accuracy will depend on the measuring equipment that you use. So i would recommend a very good condenser mic + mic preamp too if you dont already have one.

The software is free: I looked high and low for a free MLS program that was easy to use and nice looking. There are many programs out there, WinMLS 2000(good value at only 79 dollars and far more functionality than my software), Soundeasy (hard to use, expensive), LSPLab (best MLS program i have ever used, supremely easy to use, but expensive, and now discontinued i think). In the end i ended up with this one, cos it's free and does the job. a guy i know found it on sourceforge. The program is called FreeProbe. It's a small program, if you want it, send me an email at kevins AT student DOT unsw DOT edu DOT au.

 

[blackreplica]

forgot to mention, i will take measurements of the phones again with it against my ear and post the response here in a couple of minutes