[blackreplica]

Alright, here are the measurements as promised, with me actually wearing the cans and sticking my mic into the gap between my ear and the driver. As before, please take my measurements with a pinch of salt, i have no way of knowing if they are even remotely accurate.

Right Channel

Left Channel

These are a much better result than the first time when i just measured the phones when they were sitting on the table. There is still some problem though, i was described the response as it should be by the shop thru email (there should be a broad 10db bass hump up to about 200Hz, this is clearly not the case. And there is a substantial hole in the midbass region above 100 and below 300Hz. This might be whats causing that weak bass i'm hearing, since most of that thumping impactful bass we hear is from the midbass region. The low end is pretty much what i expected, about 5db down from the rest of the spectrum from my earlier estimate when listening to 'no scrubs'. In any case, i definitely need more bass with these cans than what the measurement show, my understanding is that they do actually deliver a lot more bass than what my measurement graph is alluding to?

Any feedback welcome

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackreplica Wow there are so many replies to i'll try to answer them one by one. The batteries on my mint amp are definitely fresh, i got a new pair the moment the headphones arrived(anticipating many hours of intial listening). I'm absolutely sure the amp is 100% working. The headphones definitely dont thunder with my MINT. It sounds very good with michael buble-type music ATM but still sounds weak on trance/eurodance, which is 90% of my music collection. Hahah it was nice to point out that garbage's music is poorly recorded, i know, its true. but i love their music so much, they and everclear are pretty much the only rock bands i listen to at all and its the first time i came across such a high frequency mess when listening to that song. my westones and shures played the song with ease and not a hint of harshness, although that might be because of the rolled off highs compared to the beyer. Also, i have that TLC song "No scrubs", i've had that album since i was 17 or something, although i didnt listen to it much, no scrubs was IMO the only nice song and i wasted my money. I'm listening to it now, and although the vocals and treble are really good, that rumbly bass that cuts in from time to time is really weak, it's audible, but that it, definitely no thundering or anything like that. its hard to judge with hearing along but i would say the bassline is at least 5db down(probably more) than the vocals. I'm starting to really hope it's defective and that once i send it back, i'll get back a pair of phones which has the bass i want and i'll be happy. and last of all, my speaker measurement software. Kramer, the method i use for measuring my headphones is MLS (or maximum length sequence) instead of RTA style software like yours. The reason the graph is so precise if because MLS captures the frequency response on a continuous basis as opposed to RTAs which capture fixed frequencies, thus lacking resolution. Its a bit trickier to set up and use but infinitely better for measuring, at least for loudspeaker. Of course, like any measurement, its accuracy will depend on the measuring equipment that you use. So i would recommend a very good condenser mic + mic preamp too if you dont already have one. The software is free: I looked high and low for a free MLS program that was easy to use and nice looking. There are many programs out there, WinMLS 2000(good value at only 79 dollars and far more functionality than my software), Soundeasy (hard to use, expensive), LSPLab (best MLS program i have ever used, supremely easy to use, but expensive, and now discontinued i think). In the end i ended up with this one, cos it's free and does the job. a guy i know found it on sourceforge. The program is called FreeProbe. It's a small program, if you want it, send me an email at kevins AT student DOT unsw DOT edu DOT au.

YGEM...
thanks!!

 

[blackreplica]

hey there garett, i've sent the program, do post measurements of your 770 if you have the chance.

If anyone else has any idea what could be going on, i would love to hear from you

regards

Kevin

 

[kramer5150]

thanks for the prog...

Here is my first measurement... Its NOT a measurement of my DT770 (!!).

its just my laptop mic measuring ambient air.

Ive gotta get a small mic now and fit it inside the earcup...

 

[EdipisReks]

who knew that the open air had such strange bass response and such an extreme treble roll off?

 

[Jahn]

i hereby dub that frequency "Airy." all folks commenting on how Airy something sounds must now mean whacko bass and a treble rolloff!

 

[blackreplica]

ROFL it's probably because the laptop mic is wacky in response, not like measurement mics. Also MLS measurement need to record the tone burst that the software will output...if there is no MLS signal detected, the MLS measurement comes out all screwy...what good is an MLS measurement without MLS

Garett, do remember to access your sound options in the control panel just to make sure your mic volume settings are not at zero or something. I anxiously await your measurements

PS try uploading your images to imageshack, its much faster than uploading stuff on sounddomain (i have my car sound system on that website as well, lol)

 

[kramer5150]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackreplica ROFL it's probably because the laptop mic is wacky in response, not like measurement mics. Also MLS measurement need to record the tone burst that the software will output...if there is no MLS signal detected, the MLS measurement comes out all screwy...what good is an MLS measurement without MLS Garett, do remember to access your sound options in the control panel just to make sure your mic volume settings are not at zero or something. I anxiously await your measurements PS try uploading your images to imageshack, its much faster than uploading stuff on sounddomain (i have my car sound system on that website as well, lol)

Yeah sounddomain is slower than it used to be...

Heres what I have so far... its a shure SM57, spliced to a radio shack 1/8" plug. I used to mic up my guitar cabinet with it... before I got a lin6 POD. We also used it as a vocal mic for a while. I dont think I have an impedence mis-match, I use the mic-boost ON feature(?) on my control panel. It looks like what it is.... a rush hack job LOL.

I'll try and figure out a way to fit it into my DT770... The headband itself might stretch far enough...

 

[blackreplica]

Looking good! Those look like they could fit, but you'd lose a bit of seal, and it might be a little more than uncomfortable for you. I anxiously await!

I'm sending the headphones back to the shop tomorrow, and we'll see what they say.

 

[meesha]

I had the same problem with mine that I bought a week ago. Right now I am holding onto the belief it is due to improper amplification. I would be very interested to see what the shop says tommorrow.

 

[blackreplica]

wow so you have the same problem too? Could you be more specific about the problem you have with the bass?

 

[meesha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackreplica wow so you have the same problem too? Could you be more specific about the problem you have with the bass?

I doesn't feel as impactful as I think it should be.. It does give a farty bass but the mid bass (which I believe gives headphones that

) seems very lacking. Sometimes it sounded just plain wrong.

Maybe it was due to overexpectations, but I wanted bass and it didn't seem any better than other headphones I had. I think an amp should help alot but I am also wondering if it is defective. Out of my reciever and bass boost the differences start to come out. Straight out of an ipod it just sounds plain bad. Curious what the store says to you tomorrow.

 

[blackreplica]

Sounds a lot like my problem. sounds ****** even when amped out of my iriver h140. out of my more-poweful laptop headphone output, sounds decent, but the bass is still lacking. Esp the midbass punch(midbass tap?

). The online store i bought from is halfway across the country though, so it may take longer than a couple of days to get to them, but i will definitely post here once i have heard what they have to say

 

[blackreplica]

Alright the headphones are on their way back to me.

Short story is: The headphones are not faulty. The guy at the shop says they sound exactly the way they are supposed to, and demoed it with a whole bunch of equipment. Apparently the MINT i had was ok to power it but just to be sure i bought myself a more powerful V.A.L E10 to try out on the beyers when they come back

Overall i would say that if the sound doesnt improve, then i will be very disappointed with them, its hard to imagine that these cans are the bass masters of the full sized headphone group. if this is in fact true, i may never buy another full size can again (and will probably sell the beyers too). it doesnt even compare to the kind of bass i get on my westone um2 (although the beyer's mids and highs are much better on well recorded material, but where did the bass go?)

I guess this is a lesson in not taking internet reviews too seriously. we are all used to different levels of bass. i am a self confessed basshead and i can say with great certainty, these phones are definitely not basshead phones at all (to me that is).

Anyway i once the phones get back to me sometime next week i will post my opinions again from a new listening test (i have almost forgotten what the cans sound like)

 

[blackreplica]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

The headphones, with my new, more powerful tube amp, are a completely different animal. The moment i put them on, i could already sense a big difference in the bass. True, they dont have a midbass hump, but extend very low, and have amazing presence, very hifi-like in it's delivery. And yes, finally, actually a little bass heavy. Maybe not so much bass heavy, but the presence is definitely there, and there is even quite a bit of punch, but only on recordings with a healthy dose of it.

The treble has also become a lot less scratchy...songs i couldnt bear to listen
to before suddenly become a lot more bearable, this is by far the most shocking difference for me, for these songs, they almost sound like a different headphone.

As i listened to them more and more, i liked them more and more, always a good sign. I appreciated the way it delivers bass without over-emphasis on any particular region. With the right amplification, they are also no way lower in level than any other part of the spectrum, like what i had before, although i
still dont think they sound anywhere close to 10db up from the midrange & treble that we see in commercial measurements though

On more listening, i also thought more about the 'recessed' midrange everyone says these cans have. After some thought, i realise why people say that the midrange is recessed. I personally feel that 'recessed' means a good ways down in volume from everything else. This is not so much the case, but rather, if i were nitpicking, parts of the midrange might sound a little 'thin'. I think this would come from a small dip in the upper-lower midrange (where the female vocal fundamentals) are, making female vocals appear just a hint weak. male vocals, to me, are faultless though. The recessed midrange is hardly a concern for me, and i only notice it when i am listening for it. If there was one improvement i could ask for, it's that female vocals had just a little more body and warmth.

Other than those minor niggles, i am enjoying these headphones thoroughly now. With the added power from the amp, i can also apply bassboost without getting any kind of distortion (none at sane listening levels anyway). i had it on bass boost for a while, but turned it off later, and liked it a little more. Which means i am really satisfied with the bass on these things. Who would have though that could happen?

Thanks to everyone here again for the help. Happy to answer questions or take comments if any of you guys have them

P.S Now there is only one thing that the westone does better than the beyers (and even then, only by a slight margin): midbass punch. It loses out in just about everything else (save for sensitivity, portabilty and isolation of course). Oh dear, if i wasnt such a portable nut, i might actually sell them. I havent listened to the UM2s ONCE since i got the beyers. LOL

P.P.S I highly recommend the V.A.L E10 (do a search in the amps forum for details on it) for ANYONE who wants hi-fi, extremely well built tube headphone amps at a ridiculously low price (think 200US, shipping included worldwide!!!!!!!!). Its absolutely fantastic and a perfect match for the beyers IMO, at a price that cant be beat, period!