[elnero]

puppyslugg,

Problem is I only have a Rat Shack here so 12V 1.5A is best I can do.

a1leyez0nm3,

The idea of sticking anything in my ear like that would drive me absolutely nuts.

kelly,

What would be your recommendation for a decent amp that isn't too much money? The Reality? A Meta?

Maybe I should just wait and get another amp for home use to go with the 580's. If I'm still not happy sell em then, it just seems like beating a dead horse though.

God, now I'm more confused than ever. It's really strange, when I first came here I was looking for a decent closed can for work. I don't have access to anything where I live and I rely on reading through these forums and asking questions to try to come up with solutions. I read all these glowing reviews and comments on the 280. I managed to get to try a pair and liked them so I picked myself up a pair. Now everyone says they're ****. What is that about? Most people rave about the 580's so I pick up a pair because they're held in such high regard but I must say I've been underwhelmed. They've shown a spark of life here and there but thats about it. People say they need an amp so I got a Cmoy (all my budget allowed for at the time) but now that's not good enough. So I'm not really sure where to go from here.

 

[puppyslugg]

HI elnero,

Quote:

Problem is I only have a Rat Shack here so 12V 1.5A is best I can do.

That kinda sucks. That may be worse than using the 2x9vs you're using now, for Senns. How about an elpac?

 

[elnero]

elpac seems quite expensive and once you convert to Canadian and get it shipped here, pay all the duties, taxes, brokerage fees and crap I think it the overall cost would be too high.

 

[a1leyez0nm3]

maybe you should get rid of your 580s and just listen to your 280s. i understand the ety thing...

my 280s are my main cans and I am satisfied.

which phone do you use the most? if its the 280s, maybe you should just use those... and wait until you have heard what you want to consider buying, each phone you will consider, and then decide.

just my 2 cents..

 

[Duncan]

Whilst the Cmoy isn't going to set the HD580s world on fire, and is worthy of an upgrade, as I've said two or three times now, you really do need to demo a better source...

My new cd player has made a night and day difference to my opinion of the X-Can V2

 

[puppyslugg]

I have to agree with Duncan, you should improve your source, if only to see if that is the reason. Have you tried connecting a home cdp to the cmoy? I have the d25 too, and it's a good pcdp, but it's not at the sound quality level of a decent home cdp.

 

[kelly]

elnero
First let me warn you that I've not yet heard one single perfect component in audio, at any price range. What I have found is that you can typically reduce the amount of complaints you have if you're willing to spend more money. You complained and people suggested ways to spend more money to reduce your complaints. Don't be so surprised.

The D25S is, in my view, a rather poor source. I don't like it even compared to other portables and I don't think any portable compares to even a cheap modern DVD player. If you're going to spend money and can have a statinary headphone system, do look into source first.

In regards to your specific complaints and which amp to buy. Your complaints were, "transients are rounded off and the bass is a bit behind the beat. Mix that with the recessed midrange and midbass hump, which I find quite distracting a lot of the time." You asked between the META42 and the SonicAdventure. Between the two, I'd say the META would go further to reducing your complaints. From my memory it's overall faster, cleaner and airier than the Sonic. The bass is not as deep but it is fairly tight and controlled and chances are more bass isn't what you want if you're already complaining about the HD580 bass hump.

Like I said, though, some people just don't like the HD580/600 sound no matter what you do to them and there's no guarantee. My suggestion would be to attend a Head-Fi meeting if at all possible and demo some stuff. If you have money to spend immediately, surf here and AA and figure out what the best bargain on a good sounding DVD player is. My feeling is that even if the HD580 isn't your thing that you'll eventually want a better source and amp and it'd be better to do this while you still have the HD580 rather than questioning later and having to repurchase it.

Try to have fun with this. I promise it's not all frustration.

 

[HappymaN]

So true kelly.

It's not the achievement of audio bliss that makes it all worth it, it's the fun that you have along the way...

 

[elnero]

Duncan, Quote:

Whilst the Cmoy isn't going to set the HD580s world on fire, and is worthy of an upgrade, as I've said two or three times now, you really do need to demo a better source...

I don't remember you ever telling me two or three times that I needed a new source???

kelly,

Trust me I know I’ll never find the perfect audio component but this hobby is about the quest to find the closest thing you can for your money. I’m quite sure I could get the 580’s to sound acceptable with enough money but that was not the point of my post. I thought I was pretty clear in my post that I wasn't that interested in spending more money on upgrading something that looks like a losing battle. In particular I was looking for advice on a possible alternative headphone to the 580's based on my likes and dislikes of what I have. Instead everyone posted about upgrading my amp. I was a bit tired last night and got frustrated with advice that goes in circles, what's good one day sucks the next. Maybe I have a tendency to over explain my situation in the hopes that the more information I give the better people can understand what it is I'm looking for, instead I only confuse the issue.

The main reason I'm reluctant to spend more on trying to get these phones to a happy place is I live in Canada so you can pretty much double the US price on most equipment. I don't make a huge amount of money and I'm at that point in my life where things like saving to build a house and bills take priority over headphone gear. It may take months to save for my next purchase and I'm reluctant to put it into a pair of phones that aren't doing it for me at this point. I look at it a bit like my home system. My Swans are worth alot more than anything else in the system but they still sound good. They'll sound a huge amount better when I finally do some upgrades but I'm still happy with them at this point. My thinking is to pick up something I am happy with now and when I upgrade they'll only get better instead of spending money trying to get something I'm not all that happy with to an acceptable point.

Because of where I live I'm somewhat isolated. There really is no access to anything. The nearest Head-Fi meet would be about 2000 km's away. I really dont have much way to audition gear so I have to try and make informed purchases through research.

I do have a DVD player in my home system and have tried the 580's with it as well. It again was a fairly big improvement but the nature of the phones was still the same. I don't listen from the DVD player because my home set up doesn't allow for easy connection and when it is connected the Senns cord is too short to allow me to sit anywhere.

And don't get me wrong I am having fun with this, it's allowed me to get back into and enjoying my audio hobby without spending too much money. I just want to spend that money wisely.

 

[jpelg]

elnero -

I think that everyone here has given you advice based on actual experience, and an interest in getting you the best sound for your (Canadian) buck.

Given the relatively low (to mid) price level of the HD580's, you'd be hard pressed to get better sound for similiar or less dollars. Therefore, an investment in a better amp, and or an upgrade cable, is relatively modest in cost for the improvement in sound that would result (read = HUGE).

But if that is still beyond your means, then the HD580 is not the can for you. Many here have the cmoy+HD580 combo and are relatively satisfied with it, especially when you consider the cost. You are obviously not, and that is ok too. If you are unable to get a better amp now or in the near future, you should be looking at lesser cans that can perform to their potential without the extra/better power. IMO, there is little to recommend other than the Koss 60ohm lineup. They sound great without an amp, and scale well with an amp (probably good with your cmoy). I think Koss is still selling the classic PortaPro at 50% off direct from them.

But kelly's comment on keeping the 580's are right on. I think it is a mistake to give up on them yet.

 

[elnero]

jpelg,

I never said that a better amp or cable upgrade is beyond my means. I merely stated that I didn't feel it would be beneficial for my next couple of purchases to put the money on trying to get the 580's to sound better when I don't think I'll ever truly like them. Maybe I'm wrong on that but I think I could better spend the money on something that I would enjoy more.

From what I've read the best cable upgrades for what I would be looking for would be in the $150 to $200 range. Add an amp that will cost me somewhere between $200 and $300 or more. That's a minimum of $350 US to $500 US or higher to try to get these to sound acceptable to me. Add what I would get for selling the 580's used and I think I could get a pretty decent set of cans.

As you stated other people have the 580+Cmoy combo and like it, that's part of the reason I don't think it's for me. It's obviously not a bad combo, maybe not the best, but I'm just not groovin to it.

I never said I was poor either, just that I don't have the amount of money that some of you have to put into this hobby so I want to try to make wise decisions. I was looking for a legitimate alternative to the 580's not a pair of lesser cans like the Koss. Yeeeesh!

 

[kelly]

elnero
I understand your frustration. It's a pet peev of mine when someone answers a question I didn't ask. Ever go out on a date and find "What kind of food do you want?" gets you a fifteen minute answer that doesn't include what kind of food she wants? Frustrating.

But there is a reason why everyone is saying you may want to try the HD580 in some different ways. The fact is that the headphone is pretty revealing of what's behind it and you don't have a lot behind it. Your amp and CD player combined cost less than the headphone. That should tell you that your system is a little unbalanced and you're simply not able to judge the performance of the headphone. You described what you didn't like about it and every one of those things change dramatically by changing the amp and CD player behind it. I plugged in my coworkers Sennheiser HD470, a headphone I really dislike, to my DAC and an amp I'm auditioning. I preferred it to the HD600 straight from the soundcard. Granted, that option cost more so I'm not comparing apples to apples exactly, but the point is that even the crappy little 470 got a LOT better. If it's true at that level, you can only begin to imagine how good the HD580/HD600 can sound and it probably won't surprise you that my coworker is probably going to end up buying one (and an amp).

The encouragement comes from the experience we have with seeing just how much the personality of the HD580 can change with the right stuff behind it. Again, you may not like the final result but a lot of people do and a lot of those people would say the same things you do if they were plugged into a CMOY and a D25S.

So basically... the point is, you haven't REALLY heard the HD580. Take that for what it's worth.

Still, you want a quicker sounding headphone in the same price range as the HD580. Grado is your answer there. Grados are also less recessed in the upper midrange and don't have as much of a midbass hump. The only problem is that for me, and a lot of other people, they're somewhat uncomfortable and very bright sounding. I also found the SR- series a little on the harsh side, but maybe it's a sound you become accustomed to (and again, source and amp play a big role). The RS-1 series is not harsh at all but even used will probably cost more than you're looking to spend. The HP-1000 is an awesome headphone but because its discontinued, the market is dictating ridiculous prices for them.

You might also consider the DT931 from Meier. It is tonally more balanced than the HD580 when using the 120ohm adapter (this is why I say to get from Meier--he carries those, besides the price). It's still a little bright compared to the HD580 and I think I probably still prefer the 580 when it's plugged into a good amp, but in general the headphone does sound faster, more detailed and with tighter bass. It's still a little bright and peaky to me but far less so with the adapter. This will cost you around $175 I believe.

Most of the other good headphones that are popular around here still have a midbass push. The DT250-80, Ultrasone, DT770 and V6 all have it.

One other thing. If you really like the sound on your DVD player, why not buy an extension cable? You can get one for under $10 and while it won't be as good as the $200 ones people here recommend, it won't really be your bottleneck either.

 

[elnero]

kelly,

Thank you! As always the voice of reason. You hit the nail on the head.

I fully understand that upgrading the source and amp will make things better and I'm open to trying that. Originally I said I was "thinking" about selling the 580's to get something else. In my attempt to try to nudge people into giving me the advice I was looking for I feel like I've ended up backing myself into a corner where I have to take the stance that I'm selling them because I don't like them.

As for your recommendations, Grado's are out because I'm far too sensitive to higher frequency's and fear the brightness would drive me nuts. That might deter me from the 931's as well. I would much rather a midbass hump than brightness. In fact sometimes the midbass hump can be pleasing, in the 580's case it's mixed with alot of other faults that make it glaring at times.

A cable extension is a good idea. I may do this for late night listening after my wife has gone to bed. It's just such a pain to get at the interconnects and change everything around.

Thanx for the sanity check.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

just that I don't have the amount of money that some of you have to put into this hobby

ROTFLMAO! Thanks for the mid-day laugh.

Good luck on your journey.

-j

 

[elnero]