[ADD]

Well I have actually gone out, auditioned one and bought it! I have gone from sceptic to believer. After my previous post I thought I would ring the store one more time. They did indeed have it in stock now.

I took along a DVD with some 24-96 PCM tracks (made using DVD Audio Creator) and asked the salesman if he would hitch up a NAD T515 DVD player to the V-DAC via the optical input and from there to the XCan V3. I brought my own headphones - Sennheiser PXC300.

The V-DAC sounded great from the very start - detailed and warm with excellent timbre rendition of acoustic instruments, especially violins. No digititis and no listening fatigue. I don't know well it might work used with CD, but for 24-96 material that only needs to be integer upsampled to double the original sampling frequency, it really sounds great. It has a very clear but completely non-abrasive and grain-free sound which lends itself to involving listening at low SPL - something that in itself will result in less listening fatigue.

I've got at home now connected to my Sony PCM D50 recorder playing the exact source material that I converted to DVD and listened to in the store. It is sounding better than it did in the store, though the better Amperex tubes in my own XCan and the Little Pinkie power supply are probably also helping here.

Anyway, notwithstanding MatsudaMan's position here at Head-Fi as part time Musical Fidelity Salesman and Evangelist, I have to agree wholeheartedly with everything he has said about this little black box. Sure, I can fully believe there are much better DACs out there but it is a bargain at the price and I certainly have never heard digital sound this good myself.

In summary, in my opinion this DAC absolutely must go on the audition list of anyone who listens to classical music. As for PRaT, all I know is that it is a surname I can find in the telephone directory.

 

[ADD]

Here it is in "test bench" mode awaiting placement down the track in my bedroom. Wall wart needs to go. I have some spare supermarket 6 volt lantern batteries and when I get a chance down the track I might connect them up in parallel / series to see how this thing performs on battery power.

001.JPG - 0.56MB

 

[knireis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I have actually gone out, auditioned one and bought it! I have gone from sceptic to believer.

Good. It does sound pretty nice does it! Glad to hear that one of the biggest sceptics likes it. It is always best not to believe the magazine reviewers ears but your own. But maybe the DacMagic is even better .........

 

[ADD]

It could well be. Unfortunately had I purchased a DACMagic, it would have been without an audition. There is nowhere remotely close to me where I can audition one. The DACMagic was going to be what I bought if I either could not audition a V-DAC within a reasonable amount of time or if I did not like the V-DAC. There's around $100 - $150 price difference too.

I guess the other plus with the V-DAC is that having a DC input, it is possible to battery power it, whereas I don't think this can be done with a DACMagic. The prospect of an improved power supply is extremely enticing given the level of performance it already attains and given how other components improve with them.

I am happy to have played safe - I know I don't have anything like the best equipment but it all synergises very well. I guess my experience is another case of magazines not meaning much if the reviewers don't have the exact same tastes in music or hear things the same way. Since I listen only to classical music (both orchestral and chamber) my opinions are likely to be different to others who prefer other genres.

 

[knireis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess the other plus with the V-DAC is that having a DC input, it is possible to battery power it, whereas I don't think this can be done with a DACMagic. The prospect of an improved power supply is extremely enticing given the level of performance it already attains and given how other components improve with them.

PinkFloyd is considering an Pinkie psu for the v-dac:

Rock Grotto Audio Forum - v-dac psu upgrade?

 

[Xoton]

Can someone tell me if the V-DAC would be a noticeable improvement over my Panasonic DVD player?

It's a Panasonic F87 that cost about $125 almost 10 years ago. It's nothing fancy -- but 300 bux could get me a new DVD Player!!!

Help!! I'm new to the DAC world.

 

[koto-in]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xoton /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can someone tell me if the V-DAC would be a noticeable improvement over my Panasonic DVD player? It's a Panasonic F87 that cost about $125 almost 10 years ago. It's nothing fancy -- but 300 bux could get me a new DVD Player!!! Help!! I'm new to the DAC world.

The dvd picture quality is no where near as good as your Panasonic!

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knireis /img/forum/go_quote.gif PinkFloyd is considering an Pinkie psu for the v-dac: Rock Grotto Audio Forum - v-dac psu upgrade?

It surely needs something better badly. The stock wall wart isn't even regulated. It spits out 19 volts without load and is probably a reason why the V-DAC runs quite warm. The unit itself must have 12 volt regulation on board. I have noticed already a noticeable difference in sound with the stock wall wart depending on the time of day (sounds good late at night but sounds bad in the morning when everyone in the neighbourhood is hammering the electricity supply) and possibly depending on how long it has been plugged in.

The V-DAC actually sounded noticeably worse this morning and I wondered what the heck had gone wrong. It had been plugged in and kept on all night long using the stock wall wart. I then decided to disconnect the wall wart and power the unit with two 6 volt lantern batteries in series and the sound was back to what it was last night. Swapped again to the wall wart and the sound wasn't as good.

I don't think the two lantern batteries have enough beef though - the voltage drop is about 1.5 volts under load when connected to the V-DAC. So it would probably work pretty well using a decent lead acid battery since it clearly has no problem with the (usually) slightly higher 13+ voltage of those things.

EDIT: LOL, current draw is massive. Voltage has dropped 1.2 volts after 15 minutes listening on batteries. That is with 5000 mAh lantern batteries.

 

[geering]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif It surely needs something better badly. The stock wall wart isn't even regulated. It spits out 19 volts without load and is probably a reason why the V-DAC runs quite warm. The unit itself must have 12 volt regulation on board. I have noticed already a noticeable difference in sound with the stock wall wart depending on the time of day (sounds good late at night but sounds bad in the morning when everyone in the neighbourhood is hammering the electricity supply) and possibly depending on how long it has been plugged in. The V-DAC actually sounded noticeably worse this morning and I wondered what the heck had gone wrong. It had been plugged in and kept on all night long using the stock wall wart. I then decided to disconnect the wall wart and power the unit with two 6 volt lantern batteries in series and the sound was back to what it was last night. Swapped again to the wall wart and the sound wasn't as good. I don't think the two lantern batteries have enough beef though - the voltage drop is about 1.5 volts under load when connected to the V-DAC. So it would probably work pretty well using a decent lead acid battery since it clearly has no problem with the (usually) slightly higher 13+ voltage of those things.

It's nice to see that somebody finally tested the V-DAC with something other than the wallwart. I think there would be a very noticeable improvement in sound quality with a full size car battery. Alternatively, I think the KingRex PSU would be a worthwhile upgrade. It puts out 12.9 volts and has a 48VA toroidal transformer, a transistor regulated power-stabilizing circuit with eight Nippon Chemicon aluminum electrolytic capacitors, 5 x 2200μF at AC input stage and 3 x 4700uF at DC output stage.

 

[ADD]

The best way I can describe the difference between the stock wall wart and batteries is as follows: the top end is a tiny bit less grainy with batteries and the sound is very slightly smoother. But there is less "punch" and the dynamics and soundstage seem to collapse a bit with the batteries and some of the "body" is missing. It is not a huge difference though. The differences are much bigger in peak periods though when the power is dirtier. Mind you, these two lantern batteries are now down to 10 volts - 3.2 less than 2 hours ago, so this thing sucks power like Homer Simpson downs donuts.

Right now it's nearly 1 PM and the difference between battery and wall wart is as I described above - is mostly subtle and something I am not sure I could reliably hear unless directly and instantly A/Bing. But there is a definite loss of some body with the batteries which suggests -as you say - you really need a pretty beefy power supply.

The more interesting thing to me is that when I swap between the Little Pinkie and the stock wall wart on the XCan, the stock wall wart is actually sounding better when I use the V-DAC with the XCan. I have no real explanation why

Very wierd and unexpected.

Anyway, I'm not sure I will do much at the moment apart from wait to see what MF's own V power supply is going to be like. Obviously anything other than something like a lead acid is useless with the V-DAC owing to it's prodigious thirst for current. And I'm not sure I want to go fiddling around with buying the battery and charger ($110) and then having to keep it charged all the time. There are the environmental issues with batteries too.

I think in terms of alternative AC power supplies I would probably be more inclined to trust Musical Fidelity know what they are doing, especially as the stock wall warts for these things are not too bad if the power is fairly clean to start with.

 

[MatsudaMan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyway, notwithstanding MatsudaMan's position here at Head-Fi as part time Musical Fidelity Salesman and Evangelist, I have to agree wholeheartedly with everything he has said about this little black box. Sure, I can fully believe there are much better DACs out there but it is a bargain at the price and I certainly have never heard digital sound this good myself.

Hey, I think it's hilarious and awesome that I'm starting to be called a "Salesman" and "Evangelist". Hallelujah!!!!! I love this little DAC!!! Ok, just kidding.

Congrats on finally making the decision. I knew you would like it because of how much you're into the pristine, yet complex sound of the violin. Indeed, on far too many cheap dacs and cd players, the violin sounds way too etched and digital , but with the vdac, you get a sound that is organic and natural - true to the sound.

I'm glad I've found another "convert".

 

[ADD]

OK LOL. Let's just stop short of blood letting ceremonies at midnight and burning stakes and all will be fine...

Yes, it scrapes through a pass mark on the violin test - hardly any hifi components do and almost all fail regardless of price unless you are talking really top end stuff that is not affordable to the average consumer. Accurate violin sound is usually limited to studio master tapes, high speed open reel and high end moving coil cartridges. The V-DAC doesn't get that far but neither does any consumer digital source material to begin with in my opinion.

I've now been mucking around with the humble CD and I am quite surprised at how palatable that is as well. I just got Chloe Hanslip's Bazzini CD this week and the sound really is very, very good with this DAC. Nothing on the planet is going to get rid of the slight viel and opacity of CD, but this is doing a much better job than anything I have heard. It's rare that I can listen to a CD for very long but I happily listened through the whole album without feeling I had to take the phones off.

As for the stock power supply, I haven't at all been happy about the fact that it is unregulated and thus puts all the regulation duties onto the V-DAC itself. This the reason it runs so hot - it shouldn't really get anything more than warm. When I queried this stock power supply with the distributor he quite rightly said that something has to give to get this product into the budget price range (my summary of a very long and fair explanation). He also says the V power supply will definitely be coming but it might be quite a while before we see it (perhaps towards the middle of the year).

I have since gone to Jaycar electronics today and bought a regulated, non-switching 12 volt power supply. For any Australian's interested it is not listed in their online catalogue, but the model number is MP3034. It runs to $50 and it is around the same size as the V-DAC. The plug it comes fitted with is the exact plug that the stock supply uses, so it is literally plug and play with no fiddling. Even the voltage and polarity of mine was set exactly right so no fiddling there either. Being non-switching, it is quite heavy. It's doing a perfect job and now the V-DAC is running much cooler. The new power supply itself still gets pretty warm but not like the little hot coal that the stock wall wart is.

 

[oldson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knireis /img/forum/go_quote.gif PinkFloyd is considering an Pinkie psu for the v-dac: Rock Grotto Audio Forum - v-dac psu upgrade?

i am up for one of them, when they appear!
what about a "mascot" , linear , regulated psu? would that be any good?
have seen 12v version with 0.8 amp output @ rs components!
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/search/s...duct&R=4006995

 

[ADD]

The one I got yesterday was 0.8 amp. It's been connected continuously for 20 hours now. It sounds better than the stock supply (best of both worlds - the smoothness and lack of grain of the battery test with the soundstage and dynamics of AC) but most importantly as I mentioned earlier - the V-DAC is now barely warm to the touch. The stock supply isn't doing the unit any favours with all that unregulated power having to be turned into heat. Of course I don't blame MF for shipping something cheap with it, but even a cheap regulated power supply is only a handful of dollars more than an unregulated one and it would have made customer's units run cooler.

 

[8140david]

What about a regulated PSU with 12V and 1.5A output? Should it be fine too? (I've just seen one)