Music Sever/ Computer as Transport (CAT) Discussion Thread

[drez]

Quote:

I would go for various unavoidable biases enforced by expectation...but I somehow doubt we're ever going to agree on this.
Out of interest, from a purely objective perspective (humour me!) what would you say is the cheapest silent linux box (assuming some build of linux is inevitable due to puny hardware/expense) you could build yourself to serve as a 24/96 transport? I may not agree with the overwhelming majority of what you say, but you seem to know what you're doing when it comes to choosing computer components and configuring them - even if we disagree as to the utility of much of the configuration!


 
 

Actually I have been looking at these and will probably use one of these for my yet to be built music server:
 
Will probably use one of these motherboards with this linux distro.
 
And will probably give up mid way though and get a squeezebox

 

[Dynobot]

A computer running a well configured install of MPD and the RT-Kernel will be on par with the SBtouch.  Reason being is because the Touch also uses Linux and the RT-Kernel. Both can be tweaked similarly and sound similar. However the Linux distro you have in mind does not actually <use> the RT-Kernel...you will need to install that yourself.  Then you will need to configure the audio processes to actually use the kernel in real-time.
 
If you don't have time to be doing a lot of coding you might as well go with the Touch.  However a little patience can go a long way if you do a Linux/MPD install correctly.
 
 
Quote:

Actually I have been looking at these and will probably use one of these for my yet to be built music server:
 
Will probably use one of these motherboards with this linux distro.
 
And will probably give up mid way though and get a squeezebox

 

 

[drez]

Quote:

A computer running a well configured install of MPD and the RT-Kernel will be on par with the SBtouch.  Reason being is because the Touch also uses Linux and the RT-Kernel. Both can be tweaked similarly and sound similar. However the Linux distro you have in mind does not actually <use> the RT-Kernel...you will need to install that yourself.  Then you will need to configure the audio processes to actually use the kernel in real-time.
 
If you don't have time to be doing a lot of coding you might as well go with the Touch.  However a little patience can go a long way if you do a Linux/MPD install correctly.
 

 
That sounds a bit of a stretch for my technical capabilities

  Programming is not my main field of study, and I don't want to bother by brother in law to help (read: do everything.)
 
There is this pre-installed system but I have my doubts about the PCI usb approach and it is a lot more costly than SB touch, almost as costly as mac mini.
 
The Linux route does seem a little daunting but I will continue to look into it.

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

 
That sounds a bit of a stretch for my technical capabilities

  Programming is not my main field of study, and I don't want to bother by brother in law to help (read: do everything.)
 
There is this pre-installed system but I have my doubts about the PCI usb approach and it is a lot more costly than SB touch, almost as costly as mac mini.
 
The Linux route does seem a little daunting but I will continue to look into it.

Nah, just use my site as a reference.  Its all pretty much step by step...I highlighted everything in yellow to just copy and paste.
 
 

 

[drez]

OK guess I can always fall back on my brother in law 

 
Only thing I am not sold on is the whole network streaming aspect - some seem to think it has advantages (streaming direct PCM stream from remote server where decoding occurs) but this sounds pretty complicated in having to setup the server etc.  Playback from local storage sounds much more manageable - if more costly in terms of needing more powerful cpu, 2x ssd, ram, more extensive power supply, case etc.  streaming doesn't look so bad anymore...

 

[Double C]

Just want to share my very simple music network setup:
 
It probably does not have the best sound quality(sounds good to me though), but I like were its going.
 
It basically consists of an external 500GB HDD connected to a pogoplug. It allows me to stream to an apple tv and a few ios devices w/ the pogoplug app.
 
Itunes also can pick up the itunes library from the pogoplug as well.
 
However, i can't get it to work correctly with winamp or foobar2k.

 

[Dynobot]

Just how good is Music Player Daemon?
 
Well Bryston seems to think its good enough to market a product behind it.
 
Bryston BDP-1 $2,100
 

 

[MaciekN]

Quote:

Hahahhaaha
 
Don't just look at me....the folks at Squeezebox forum seem to think latency timings sound different too.  Guess its just mass psychosis.  Either way, I respect the opinion of those who do not hear a difference.
 
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=89359

 
Hmm, looks like the same psychosis as in The Art of Building Computer Transports and http://www.phasure.com, the forum of xxhighend audio player. Really strange, there surely can not be any connection between latency and SQ. Really! Simply mass psychosis!

 

[Dynobot]

Quote:

Hmm, looks like the same psychosis as in The Art of Building Computer Transports and http://www.phasure.com, the forum of xxhighend audio player. Really strange, there surely can not be any connection between latency and SQ. Really! Simply mass psychosis!

LOL.....
 
Good information thanks for posting it.

 

[MaciekN]

Yea, they all have to be wrong! And the effects of their trial and error expriments surely are placebo, mass placebo! Science has no asnwer to that so it is false, poor poeple don't know they are fooling themselves!
 
Now, this time seriously, a nice read can be found at: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Why-does-computer-matter#comment-61713 Whole thread is quite informative.

 

[Willakan]

As we're going for the sarcastic bash science angle, I think I'll go for the sarcastic bash audiophiles angle:
 
"I have a totally irrational belief with no supporting evidence for it at all! But hey, I found lots of other people who believe that audio is magic, so it must be true! After all, the human senses are infallible. Then I'll be sarcastic to underscore my deep ignorance and level of delusion!"
 
As for the links, "The Art of Building Computer Transports" makes crap up faster than it is possible to refute it and I'm not going to even go into the inane dribblings about jitter (OMG I CAN MEASURE SOMETHING IT MUST BE AUDIBLE). Back to the little booklet of misleading rubbish that is "The Art", some of the BIOS switches it suggests are a particular point of amusement, demonstrating a complete lack of understanding of how timers work.
 
There is no connection between latency and sound quality. I can say that with authority as absolute as it is possible to have in an uncertain world (technically cannot prove anything aside from the fact you are a conscience if you go all philosophical on me). There is not a shred of evidence that suggests it would, and normal, rational people dismiss ideas which have no supporting evidence. Otherwise, I could suggest that wearing purple socks improves the quality of my audio and could cry foul when you didn't take me seriously (10 of my mates heard the difference from the other room!)
 
Mass psychosis? Nice straw man. Mass delusion, reinforced by confirmation bias and a refusal to see that their senses are not infallible? Absolutely.
 
 

 

[alexsj]

I had a friend who used to explain in some detail why his red racing bike was faster than his white one; some days he'd tell me his white was faster than his red.  I was never sure whether the reason was what he ate for breakfast or whether he had forgotten to take his meds . . . . .  But he believed it and I never argued with him since he could kick my ass regardless of which bike he was riding.

 

[MaciekN]

"The Art... " I've presented here as just another source that mentions letency having an impact on SQ. It's content I've discussed with you in another thread and I'm not posting it here to preach. Just as the link to squeezebox forum, I wanted to show that this belief shows up here and there over the net. On the phasure forum poeple seem to be talking a lot about output latency settings and it's impact on percieved, not measured, SQ. It also seems to be one of the main topics mentioned in the thread at Computer Audiophile to which I linked in my previous post, it's an interesting discussion. You could tell poeple there that they are all wrong, it would do them good.
 
I am sorry if my sarcastic posts made you angry Wilakan, it was not my intent. I did not realize that you treated the matter of Science so seriously, I will joke no more.

 

[Willakan]

I'm sorry if I came across annoyed, but it didn't read like a joke, more like a jibe. Internet forums are a great place to misinterpret people and fly off in a rage I suppose!
 
As for widespread beliefs, even more people believe in the effects of cables*, and I don't have to tell you my opinions on that. They also tend to take it badly when you try to tell them they're all wrong.
 
*Usual set of disclaimers regarding sufficient gauge and so on.

 

[lextek]

I'm using and and loving a Macbook with a 500 gig HD, Airport Extreme and Apple TV2. I've got the Macbook hooked up tom my B&K HT via optical. I either listen to a small 2- channel speaker set-up upstairs through the Apple TV and a heavily, modded T-amp. Or use the iPad or iPhone with Home Sharing with a Bithead and headphones. Still deciding on a DAC. Might try a Peachtree integrated.