[Danjen22]

Tidal MQA 2.21 build

I have the Album I used for this test that I purchased. It is 24/48 MQA

I can however hear an audible difference when using the Quad DAC with this build. The sound cuts out when turning the DAC on and off or changing the sound preset/digital filters. When using the newer builds the Quad DAC does nothing whether on or off or changing presets.

Spoiler

Output thread Ox724d65 ddco, name Audio Out 1D, tid 1604, type o (MDXER): I/O handle: 29

Standby: yes

Sample rate: 48000 Hz

HAL frame count: 768

HAL Format: 0 (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_16_8IT) HAL buffer size: 3072 bytes

Channel count: 2

Channel mask: Ox00000003 (front-left, front-right) Processing format: DtS (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_FLOAT)

Processing frame size: 8 bytes

Pending config events: none Output device: 0 (AUDIO_DEVICE_NONE)

Input device: 0 (AUDIO DEVICE NONE) Audio source: O CAUDIO_SOURCE_DEFAULT)

Timestamp stats: n=0 disco cold=0 nRdy=0 err-i jitterMs Cunavai1) localSR(nan, nan) corrected itteris(unavail)

Timestamp corrected: no

Master mute: off Normal frame count: 1152

Total writes: 0 Fast track avai IMask-Oxfe no no 0 full

Delayed writes: 0 Blocked in write: no

Suspend count: 0 Sink buffer : 0x72dd1a8800

Mixer buffer: Ox724debbf80 Effect buffer: Ox72ddla6000

delay Ov72ddt ao flags o (AUDIO OUTPUT FLAGNONE)

Frames written: 0 Suspended Frames: 0

Pipesink frames written: G Hal stream dump:

Standby: yes Frames written: 0 Errors: 0

Signal power history: (none) Thread throttle time (msecs): 0

Audio Mixer tracks: Master mono off

Master balance: 0.000000 (0.000000)

FastMixer thread Ox724dG delco tid-1603 FastMixer command-COLD IDLE write Sequence-0 frames written-0 nunTracks=0 writeErrors=0 underruns-0 overruns=0

sampleRate-o frameCount-o measuredwarmup-0 ms, warmupCycles-0 mixPeriod=nan ms latency=0.00 ms

Timestamp stats: n=0 disc-o cold-0 nRdy-0 err-0 jitterks (unavai 1) TocalSR (nan, nan) correcteditterMs (unavai1)

No FastMixer statistics available currently Fast tracks: sMaxFastTracks=8 activelask=0

Index Active Full Partia

 

[Dannemand]

Thank you. That does indeed use Mixer. But it looks like a bunch of typos, although that's hard to believe: MDXER instead of MIXER and AUDIO OUTPUT FLAGNONE instead of AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_NONE. Just to make sure this isn't garbling that occurred in the process of copy/pasting, could you attach the captured dump files to a post here, please?

Also, seeing Processing format: DtS (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_FLOAT) makes me wonder if DTS:X is enabled on the Quad DAC settings page. If so, that loses any chance of bit-perfect playback, and it should be disabled. But it's the same phone as your previous tests, so why is it so different from the other test you did on Tidal 2.37.0?

In any case would it seem that Tidal 2.21.0 does NOT request AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_DIRECT on Android 10 (for whatever reason) neither on your V50 nor on V60 (again, as reported by @csglinux). I don't know why that is. I recall csglinux reporting that Davy (the UAPP dev) had to perform additional gymnastics to achieve Direct path on Android 10. That is probably what we are seeing here. Tidal then changed something in later app versions to address it, but forgot to test the result, causing them to now fail on ALL Android versions

Whichever way: Tidal app version 2.21.0 is working on earlier Android versions, but broken in Android 10. And Tidal app versions later than 2.21.0 are broken on ALL Android versions.

Thanks again for making these tests. I hope LG will take them seriously, although I have my doubts (it seems I am becoming like csglinux )

 

[Danjen22]

Thank you. That does indeed use Mixer. But it looks like a bunch of typos, although that's hard to believe: MDXER instead of MIXER and AUDIO OUTPUT FLAGNONE instead of AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_NONE. Just to make sure this isn't garbling that occurred in the process of copy/pasting, could you attach the captured dump files to a post here, please?

Also, seeing Processing format: DtS (AUDIO_FORMAT_PCM_FLOAT) makes me wonder if DTS:X is enabled on the Quad DAC settings page. If so, that loses any chance of bit-perfect playback, and it should be disabled. But it's the same phone as your previous tests, so why is it so different from the other test you did on Tidal 2.37.0?

In any case would it seem that Tidal 2.21.0 does NOT request AUDIO_OUTPUT_FLAG_DIRECT on Android 10 (for whatever reason) neither on your V50 nor on V60 (again, as reported by @csglinux). I don't know why that is. I recall csglinux reporting that Davy (the UAPP dev) had to perform additional gymnastics to achieve Direct path on Android 10. That is probably what we are seeing here. Tidal then changed something in later app versions to address it, but forgot to test the result, causing them to now fail on ALL Android versions

Whichever way: Tidal app version 2.21.0 is working on earlier Android versions, but broken in Android 10. And Tidal app versions later than 2.21.0 are broken on ALL Android versions.

Thanks again for making these tests. I hope LG will take them seriously, although I have my doubts (it seems I am becoming like csglinux )

It is indeed a typo. I copied the text and pasted it. DTS Is not enabled, that is supposed to be 0x5.
I have attached the screen capture instead. Hopefully you can see it.

 

[Dannemand]

It is indeed a typo. I copied the text and pasted it. DTS Is not enabled, that is supposed to be 0x5.
I have attached the screen capture instead. Hopefully you can see it.

Yes, that looks better. But of course still the same conclusion.

So I would say send LG your dumps from the latest Tidal version, and from LG Music, and (optionally) one of my dumps from 2.21.0 on Oreo/Pie.

You could also just point them to this thread, although I doubt they have the time and patience to read it.

Edit: On second thought, don't send them my dumps. It'll just confuse your message.

 

[Danjen22]

At least it now confirms what yourself and csglinux had said for the V50 too.

Such a shame really but at least UAPP still offers a decent sounding experience on my V50 with Android 10.

 

[Dannemand]

Such a shame really but at least UAPP still offers a decent sounding experience on my V50 with Android 10.

That is definitely worth stressing: UAPP is, and always was, the best way to play music on LG Quad DAC phones. Local files as well as streaming from Tidal or Qobuz or from network servers.

Even with Tidal app version 2.21.0 (the last working version) on Android Oreo or Pie, it still only works with MQA tracks. All non-MQA tracks will go through the Mixer no matter what. And that was always the case.

And I have yet to see a version of the Qobuz app that can play anything without going through the Mixer.

Again, I'll be very interested to hear what comes out of your exchange with LG

 

[Danjen22]

That is definitely worth stressing: UAPP is, and always was, the best way to play music on LG Quad DAC phones. Local files as well as streaming from Tidal or Qobuz or from network servers.

Even with Tidal app version 2.21.0 (the last working version) on Android Oreo or Pie, it still only works with MQA tracks. All non-MQA tracks will go through the Mixer no matter what. And that was always the case.

And I have yet to see a version of the Qobuz app that can play anything without going through the Mixer.

Again, I'll be very interested to hear what comes out of your exchange with LG

I totally agree. Tidal was good for offline Masters though which is missing from UAPP.

Not that I need it but with the UK no longer part of the EU, come the time we can start holidaying abroad again the download option might become more necessary.

But for now I'm good with the setup I have.

Thanks for your input though, much appreciated.

 

[Promenadeplatz]

That is definitely worth stressing: UAPP is, and always was, the best way to play music on LG Quad DAC phones. Local files as well as streaming from Tidal or Qobuz or from network servers.

Indeed better than NeutronMp (only on Quad DAC phones) ? Or just different UI, etc.?

 

[Dannemand]

Indeed better than NeutronMp (only on Quad DAC phones) ? Or just different UI, etc.?

Yes, Neutron also supports bit-perfect on Quad DAC phones (bypassing Mixer for 16/44 files) -- and as I understand was the first to do so. I only ever spent a day using Neutron since I couldn't stand their UI. But some people really like it. I don't believe it supports streaming Tidal or Qobuz, although that may have changed since my test of it.

 

[wulunzun]

I just bought the LG V50S and I'm trying to use as little Google products as possible, including the Play Store. So my previously bought Neutron and Poweramp cannot be used as they cannot validate the license from a phone not logged into Play Store.

I have found some free/FOSS music players and I don't hear any differences between them and Neutron/Poweramp on my old phone, LG V30.

I'm hoping someone can enlighten me whether they are as good as Neutron/UAPP/Poweramp.

F-droid
1. Vinyl

Play Store
2. Omnia
3. Onkyo HF player
4. PlayerPro Music Player + PlayerPro DSP Pack by BlastOn SA

Also, why is APE support so sparse in the music players? I have a few files in APE format which I can't play in majority of the players. Only Omnia from the list above works.

 

[Promenadeplatz]

I tried several times foobar vs NeutronMp and think that I can distinguish between them with foobar lagging behind in terms of SQ.

 

[mw7485]

Nooooooooo:

LG to Shut Down Smartphone Business

One of the few manufacturers who made an effort to deliver quality sound through a handset.

 

[mitchmalibu]

If you don't mind a tacky design, Asus released the ROG Phone 5 with a 3.5mm jack output and a dedicated ESS DAC. Don't know if it is properly implemented and supported by the usual apps however ...

Sad for LG too, but their support was abysmal, and the V30, which should have had 3 years of security update, barely got 2...

 

[Danjen22]

Update from LG Help desk.

Good Afternoon Danny,



I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you, this is due to a high influx of emails which we are working quickly to respond to. Thank you for your patience.



I have had a response from our Technical Team, and they have advised that there is nothing specifying that MQA was ever supported on UK specification V50 models and they suspect this is why the issue is occurring. They have asked to confirm if you are able to get all other audio formats to work on the phone?



I hope I have helped you today, but if you have any more questions regarding this, please do not hesitate to get back in contact with us for further assistance, we would be happy to help you. Take care, Danny.



-----------------------------------------------------------------



Kind Regards



Rebecca | LG Electronics UK Helpdesk

I've sent them a picture of the box

 

[Dannemand]

Update from LG Help desk.

Good Afternoon Danny,



I am sorry for the delay in getting back to you, this is due to a high influx of emails which we are working quickly to respond to. Thank you for your patience.



I have had a response from our Technical Team, and they have advised that there is nothing specifying that MQA was ever supported on UK specification V50 models and they suspect this is why the issue is occurring. They have asked to confirm if you are able to get all other audio formats to work on the phone?



I hope I have helped you today, but if you have any more questions regarding this, please do not hesitate to get back in contact with us for further assistance, we would be happy to help you. Take care, Danny.



-----------------------------------------------------------------



Kind Regards



Rebecca | LG Electronics UK Helpdesk

I've sent them a picture of the box

Does the box say MQA on it? Is it a UK model?

Either way, this could be just their attempt to explain away why something isn't working.

It is unfortunate that LG never provided any confirmation of MQA authorization: We're all just guessing whether it picks up the MQA and how it unfolds it.