[eriktheg]

So has anyone heard of the theory that Music is very closely related to Math and is nearly Identical?
I just checked google over a few pages, and the explanations make sense, but at the same time doesn't make sense.
http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/music.htm
 
I love music and I love playing the piano, but I hate my pre-cal class and I'm really not that great at math.
Since they are so closely related, then why is this?
 
This is probably the wrong forum in general to even talk about this stuff, but I just need some answers, also would like to hear from  people that feel the same way?
 
Just thought It was an interesting subject to bring up.

 

[smashing]

Interesting as it might be, isn't this the wrong section?
 
Relationship between maths and music is a well-studied subject. Most of the western music are based on numbers 2 and 3; and the ionian scale (major) is based on the pythagorian scale. And even atonal work, like serialism, is based on a septic mathematical notations. Then again, maths is about abstraction. Abstracting that of nature into a comprehensible pattern or relationship equations, so that they could be used to further our understanding and solve problems associated with it. It's just logic. Being good in music doesn't immediately equate one's proficiency in maths. And neither does that make mathematical-inclined eggheads musical genius.

 

[eriktheg]

I kind of figured that this was the wrong section... and the wrong forums in general.
 
Well I guess im not crazy that I like music but dislike math.
Thanks.
(idk why I was even worried in the first place since I have such a blessing in music)

 

[Uncle Erik]

No worries, I just moved this thread to the Member's Lounge. If you want a thread moved, please drop a PM to me or one of the other mods or admins. We're happy to take care of these things.

And yes, there's quite a relationship between math and music. I've taken a little music theory and derivative calculus, and you can see how they tie together. I'd like to take some deeper classes one of these days - it's fascinating.

If you're struggling with calculus, pick up a book called "Forgotten Calculus," by Bleau. I was mystified by calculus until I got it. Then it all started to make sense. Once you "get" it, calculus is absolutely beautiful. I never thought I'd call math beautiful, but there's something very elegant about calculus. When you put all the small parts together and the big picture comes into focus, it's wonderful. Weird, because I always hated math. But when the light came on it was moving. Actually an emotional experience, which was the last thing I expected from taking the course. I began to see how part of the universe worked. It's simple, but you have to build on a lot of different areas before you get there. If you want to look at something really interesting, check out the intersection between math and philosophy.

Also, I gave my copy to my calculus professor. He really liked it and started incorporating it into his course.

 

[matthewh133]

The last thing I want is to do is overly complicate my beloved music

 

[GreatDane]

Quote:

The last thing I want is to do is overly complicate my beloved music

Not complicated at all. On my iPod it's all ones and zeros.
 
1110010101010000010101000110101010000100111101010010101010101

 

[wink]

I guess our collective numbers are uo.
 
If you want a real maths buzz, try set theory.........

 

[logwed]

Take the surface integral of a concerto, and you end up with a symphony?

I have a friend who composes a little bit to relax, he's very musically inclined. Anyway, when he does math, he describes his mental process as being musically based, on scales and such. Kind of an interesting way of going about things, I think, almost like synthesia.

 

[DearestDane]

Leibniz said it almost perfectly: "Music is the pleasure the human soul experiences from counting without being aware that it is counting."
 
At one perception level, music simply is numbers. Or rather the relationships between them. Loads of them. And they are immediately and easily perceivable without the need of using your intellect.

 

[robm321]

Quote:

 
Relationship between maths and music is a well-studied subject. Most of the western music are based on numbers 2 and 3; and the ionian scale (major) is based on the pythagorian scale. And even atonal work, like serialism, is based on a septic mathematical notations. Then again, maths is about abstraction. Abstracting that of nature into a comprehensible pattern or relationship equations, so that they could be used to further our understanding and solve problems associated with it. It's just logic. Being good in music doesn't immediately equate one's proficiency in maths. And neither does that make mathematical-inclined eggheads musical genius.

Great post. 

 

[eriktheg]

Lol I actually do find myself doing that tap motion with my feet almost every time I hear music... like literally haha. and my bro thinks im crazy cuz of it.
Idk, this thread just reminded me how frequently I do it.
Also, idk whats wrong with me, but in school even though Im close to graduating, I still find myself making random beats on my desk and don't even know im moving my hands until someone tells me to stop.. then I get really embarrassed about how lousy my beat would sound haha. I guess I do count all the time.....
 
Man... also I hate reading so chances are I might not read the book you recommended.

 

[smashing]

Quote:

Lol I actually do find myself doing that tap motion with my feet almost every time I hear music... like literally haha. and my bro thinks im crazy cuz of it.
Idk, this thread just reminded me how frequently I do it.
Also, idk whats wrong with me, but in school even though Im close to graduating, I still find myself making random beats on my desk and don't even know im moving my hands until someone tells me to stop.. then I get really embarrassed about how lousy my beat would sound haha. I guess I do count all the time.....
 
Man... also I hate reading so chances are I might not read the book you recommended.

 
What sort of music do you listen to? 4/4 time signature is widely used in rock, blues, country, funk, and pop, and it is very typical for a listener to tap to the 2nd and 4th beats of the bar. It's not crazy in the least though. And frankly, it's more a habit than actual counting...
 
If you want to get crazy, grab a copy of Dave Brubeck's Time Out. There's lots of different time signature in that album, including Take Five done in an not typically used 5/4 beat.

 

[Anaxilus]

There is a mathematical relationship to everything in the universe so yes I'd support your hypothesis.  Math is simply a way in which we relate things to each other.

 

[Scott_Tarlow]

 
Quote:

There is a mathematical relationship to everything in the universe so yes I'd support your hypothesis.  Math is simply a way in which we relate things to each other.

Guess you have never studied complementarity. Not every relationship can be expressed in math.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Not every relationship can be expressed in math.

As far as you know you mean.  Or is this another Head-fi absolute truth?  Plus don't confuse relationships w/ expressions or you'll have to eat Schrodinger's cat.  

  In anticipation of wave-particle duality being straw manned into simple arithmetic I take my leave.  Back to polishing up my Unified theory of Physics.