[canister]

  I don't get it. How can the output of their DAC "drive the headphones directly" if this new box has to be added to the chain?

I think what they mean is that the output from the Select DAC is used to drive the diaphragm directly, without being amplified again. What their 'headphone amp' does is simply to provide the high voltage bias needed for the Stax to work properly. $37,950 just to give the user the bias voltage?!? The Woo Audio WEE can do that for $499.
 
Maybe MSB think that many Asian audiophiles equate 'Expensive' with 'Best', which is why they are unveiling this amp in Shanghai and Hong Kong first. I don't blame them, and good luck to them....times are tough in the world of high-end audio.

 

[Stereolab42]

 
I think what they mean is that the output from the Select DAC is used to drive the diaphragm directly, without being amplified again. What their 'headphone amp' does is simply to provide the high voltage bias needed for the Stax to work properly. $37,950 just to give the user the bias voltage?!? The Woo Audio WEE can do that for $499.
 
Maybe MSB think that many Asian audiophiles equate 'Expensive' with 'Best', which is why they are unveiling this amp in Shanghai and Hong Kong first. I don't blame them, and good luck to them....times are tough in the world of high-end audio.

 
So the bias is basically just a straight DC voltage of 580V or whatever it is Stax uses? And they want $37k for that? Good grief.

 

[Crashem]

I have some doubts that's all it does. the output stage wouldn't have the juice to produce the needed swings.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Conventional (like dynamic and planar magnetic) headphones can be driven directly from the outputs of the MSB SELECT DAC II. Electrostatic headphones are different and require either an electrostatic headphone amplifier or an electrostatic converter powered by a speaker amp. Integrating it with the DAC in the unique way they have seems to provide an advantage in itself, but regardless, that doesn't necessarily make it the best electrostatic amp for STAX.
 
The #1 thing I (and probably everyone else) would like to know is how this amp compares to others. The KGSSHV Carbon Nanotube and upcoming T2 successor from STAX themselves are of great interest in the echelon of exotic highest-performance electrostatic amps. Too bad only a handful of people will be able to make any type of meaningful comparison...and at this price point, comparisons to the Sennheiser Orpheus HE 1 system are also essential.
 
The SELECT DAC II ranges from $89,950 to $139,825 depending on which upgrades are included. So although $37,950 for a headphone amp is outrageous in the context of nearly all Head-Fi'ers, it's relatively inexpensive in the context of the hardcore audiophiles (mostly very high-end speaker users) who already own this DAC. Heck, there are speaker cables that run higher than $40K! Let's face it: these products are for the wealthy. (Along with those who aspire to be.)
 
The name of the product is MSB SELECT Electrostatic Headphone Amplifier. I hope they change that to something less generic once it's released.
 
Another thing I would like to comment on is that the TRINITY DAC is clocked at 28 femtoseconds, so the claim of the MSB having the lowest jitter clock in the world doesn't apply anymore, as it is 33 femtoseconds.
 
For your convenience, here is the PDF in image form. (Right-click it and open it in a new tab to view the full-size image.)
 

 

[DMSB]

I would just like to clear up a little misinformation from the last post from Music Alchemist:
"the TRINITY DAC is clocked at 28 femtoseconds" = true
"so the claim of the MSB having the lowest jitter clock in the world doesn't apply anymore, as it is 33 femtoseconds" = false
 
The error here is one of omission, the 33 femtoseconds of the MSB clock spec is 1Hz to 1,000,000Hz, the Trinity spec of 28 femtoseconds is 10Hz to 100,000Hz. The residual phase noise added from the wider bandwidth of 1Hz to 1Mhz will raise that spec considerably, it would be speculation to say by how much. However the phase noise limits of the MSB clock is posted on the website so it is easy to recalculate a bandwidth of 10Hz to 100Khz. Then we can compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. This recalculation of a narrower bandwidth makes the phase noise of the MSB Clock 11.77 femtoseconds.
 
So the MSB Femto 33 clock has 12 femtoseconds of jitter from 10Hz to 100Khz
And the Trinity Femto clock has 28 femtoseconds of jitter from 10Hz to 100Khz
 
Be careful when comparing apples to oranges, its a mater of taste.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I would just like to clear up a little misinformation from the last post from Music Alchemist:
"the TRINITY DAC is clocked at 28 femtoseconds" = true
"so the claim of the MSB having the lowest jitter clock in the world doesn't apply anymore, as it is 33 femtoseconds" = false
 
The error here is one of omission, the 33 femtoseconds of the MSB clock spec is 1Hz to 1,000,000Hz, the Trinity spec of 28 femtoseconds is 10Hz to 100,000Hz. The residual phase noise added from the wider bandwidth of 1Hz to 1Mhz will raise that spec considerably, it would be speculation to say by how much. However the phase noise limits of the MSB clock is posted on the website so it is easy to recalculate a bandwidth of 10Hz to 100Khz. Then we can compare apples to apples instead of apples to oranges. This recalculation of a narrower bandwidth makes the phase noise of the MSB Clock 11.77 femtoseconds.
 
So the MSB Femto 33 clock has 12 femtoseconds of jitter from 10Hz to 100Khz
And the Trinity Femto clock has 28 femtoseconds of jitter from 10Hz to 100Khz
 
Be careful when comparing apples to oranges, its a mater of taste.

 
Ah, yes, I did think it was more complex than that, so thanks for the clarification.

 

[isquirrel]

  I don't get it. How can the output of their DAC "drive the headphones directly" if this new box has to be added to the chain?

If you are referring to my earlier post, then that's correct, using normal headphones, not electrostatics then the Select DAC XLR outputs that you would normally run to a pre-amp (which would be stupid IMHO) or to hook up to active loudspeakers then they have more than enough power to drive headphones. The Abyss can't be run at ear splitting volumes but Planners like the LCD-4 are fine. The Select has 8 DAC modules, and has no output stage. MSB fully sanction it being used that way and with nothing between you and the DAC its a pure as it gets.
 
However as you know Electrostatics have their own special requirements so MSB had to build a separate external amp for them. It hooks directly into the DAC's outputs. Don't have a photo of the rear yet, should have one on Tuesday and will post it then.
 
Hopefully when MSB do a trip to Australia I will get a chance to have a listen. 

 

[thinker]

Listened today SR-009 with MSB electrostatic amp about 15 minutes.This combo was quite warm sounding and neutral with average soundstage and air.  Stax own amps are slightly better when used with excellent DAC.

 

[Oingo Boingo]

Since MSB is using the image of Dmitry Gubchenko (designer of “Demograf” audio equipment from Russia) it would be nice to compare the design of the MSB electrostatic amp with the ones which Dmitry is making.  Also, Dmitry (as far as I know) prefers HE90 and SR-Omega e-stats, rather than the 009. 
Here is the link to the electrostatic amp which Dmitry has built for me:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/677809/the-stax-thread-iii/60#post_9737391
Few images from Dmitry’s recent project for e-stats attached. 
Here are some other Dmitry’s projects:
http://audio-tube.ru/
More pictures here:
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=32603&hl=+demograf#entry854160
http://forum.doctorhead.ru/index.php?showtopic=32445&hl=

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[paradoxper]

Let's see what is under the hood. Anyone have internals?

 

[paradoxper]

It sounds like the Demograf then? Might as well just go with WOO if you want that warm and gooey garbage.
 
 
Edit: Misinterpreted using Dmitry's image as he was a co-designer in this MSB slop. 
 
I may say, let's hope it ******* sounds better than the Demograf at that price. 

 

[Oingo Boingo]

So that no one gets confused: Dmitry (Demograf) has nothing to do with the MSB electrostatic amp.  The use of his picture on the MSB web site was a real surprise for Dmitry.

 

[arnaud]

Lol, I have hard time imagining these p2p components inside the msb chassis for some reason

 

[Klonk]

I heard it too at the Munich High End Show. It sounded very good, smooth and detailed. I didn't get the chance to listen to the Orpheus, so no comparison. 

 

[LouisArmstrong]

MSB Select 2 +MSB Amp+SR009
vs
MSB Select 2 + BHSE + SR009
 
Which combo is better?