[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclejr /img/forum/go_quote.gif Shame on all of you! A couple of comments: What was the setup? Unamped out of a cassette player? FLAC > iMod > SR-71? What kind of music? Drum n bass? Well recorded violin duets? Anyway, decide for yourself. Forgive me if I don't find the initial post convincing, at all. Irrespective of all of that, n = 1! Having said all of that, it would be *all* that surprising, but I presume that the differences are quite subtle.

324 AAC-->E-MU0404 DAC-->rock, techno, pop.

 

[F107plus5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif By the way, these differences that I am describing with these headphones are all from using them with portable sources... Ipod, Zen, Laptop. With an amp, The differences in dynamics increased with the senns but I wasn't able to compare the two grados with an amp cause i was ampless at the time i had them both at the same time. Oh, and you might take my ms1 vs sr60 comparison with a grain of salt because I had two sr60s that didn't sound exactly identical to each other either

I suppose that it could be quite possible that, considering Alessandros are indeed Grados after all, that a non-broken-in MS-1 that happens to be manufacturing toleranced toward the "Grado" side of the ledger may sound quite similar to a fully broken in SR-60 which is manufactured quite by chance to be closest to Alessandro characteristics. Following additional hardware and "brain" breaking in may, of course, change the results of the initial impression.

 

[F107plus5]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's another theory I conjured up...and it has nothing to do with making a headphone that sounds different. Rather...from a marketing and profits perspective. OK...let's just say that Grado has relationships with its distributors...all distributors worldwide for their headphones. In this contract they agree not to sell the SR-60s directly. If they do this, they violate the distribution agreement. Meanwhile, their distributors are selling these things for tons of $$$$ overseas. Why? Because they can. Well, because they're so expensive overseas, the demand is lower and the average consumer will choose Sennheiser over a Grado on price alone. Grado can't expand its market overseas because it can't sell directly (or risk violating the agreement...in which case, no distributor will agree to carry ANY Grado). Meanwhile. the distributor is making $$$ hand over fist for every Grado headphone sold. And there's no way they're going to give that up. Solution? Grado knows that in order to grow business, they need to penetrate the overseas market. How do they accomplish this? Price...they need to figure out a way to lower the price for buyers overseas. How do they do this? Create a "new" line of headphones and give Alessandro the exclusive rights to sell the "new" line. With just enough tweaks and spec changes to NOT violate their contract with their existing distributors, they are able to sell the same sound (trust me...Grado doesn't want to mess with success here) with minimal changes to its manufacturing processes. They are then able to sell this new line at a higher wholesale price to Alessandro. In return, Alessandro makes a nice sum of money selling headphones that compete directly with Grado's own line of headphones. In this scenario, Grado is able to sell headphones at a higher price to Alessandro and penetrate the overseas market at the same time. Because the price for Grados is now suddenly lower, MS-1s outsell SR-60s by a large margin overseas. This whole Alessandro/Grado thing has nothing to do with sound...at least when applied to the MS-1s. Re-read this and tell me if it makes any sense...especially you business people.

It would make perfect sense for sure if there were only one additional factor. And that would be the factor of desiring a growth potential. From going over dozens of threads previously written on the matter of international trade, the one basic point that continually comes to the fore is the apparent lack of desire of Grado to expand their business of US made headphone products.

 

[BrookR1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F107plus5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It would make perfect sense for sure if there were only one additional factor. And that would be the factor of desiring a growth potential. From going over dozens of threads previously written on the matter of international trade, the one basic point that continually comes to the fore is the apparent lack of desire of Grado to expand their business of US made headphone products.

But you can find them easily on Amazon.com and lots of other web sites. You can find them in brick and mortar stores across the U.S. I think they don't want to become "corporate" like Sennheiser, but they're still making their product readily available. It could be a case of "controlled" growth. They only want to grow so much. Large growth spurts means logistics and personnel headaches.

 

[donunus]

BrookR1, The marketing strategy makes sense but the story still goes. my ms1 sounded different from my sr60. They were both burned in at least a hundred hours. Anyway, if you strategically pick songs that don't hit the frequencies of their differences, they might sound very similar since they are both cut from the same cloth being both grado headphones, but try listening to more than just a few songs. Compare them with many songs from different genres

 

[BrookR1]

I listened to several songs. So, tell me, which songs should I listen to in order to hear this majestic difference? I'll go buy a CD or three if you think this will help me appreciate the differences. I'm just dying to hear the true Alessandro sound.

 

[F107plus5]

I think we've seen some of the problems with growth over the last few months. There had been a batch of MS-1 that came out with a few additional manufacturing flaws that caused a number of additional returns. There were also delays in shipping concurrently with these manufacturing defects. So I suspect that manufacturing was strained a bit around the end of last year. I also understand that some of the Grado vendors were also having some stocking problems as well causing delays in "Grado" products shipping here reciently.

I get the impression that they are manufacturing to the limits of their current facilities.

 

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrookR1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listened to several songs. So, tell me, which songs should I listen to in order to hear this majestic difference? I'll go buy a CD or three if you think this will help me appreciate the differences. I'm just dying to hear the true Alessandro sound.

To me, the differences are in every song from every cd i tried, some with more pronounced differences than others. Hmm a paul van dyk cd for example has bouncier and fatter bass on the sr60s against that of the ms1. When you speak of the majestic difference in the grado vs alessandro sound, you sound like you're expecting too much of a difference. The difference of the ms1 and sr60 might still be less than sr60 to 325i so its probably more due to a price bracket thing than just saying Alessandro vs Grado. The alessandro vs grado thing is more of a slight equalization difference than a driver quality and the big picture of the ultimate presentation being different

 

[F107plus5]

One of the things I recall most about reading a lot of the earlier MS-1 posts, was the use of the term "MS-1; the Gateway Drug"! Also, from reading a lot of those posts and threads, that Alessandro has a similarity in sound within their three models that makes the climb up their product ladder a simple progression. That the MS-1 gets ya and the MS2i follows right along and aims the listener and his wallet straight toward the MS-Pro.

Grado; of course uses a different philosophy. The top three models alone are quite a bit different from each other in their overall presentations, and folks can be heard saying all the time how "I like this model better than that for these reasons". The same within the lower ranks. With Alessandro it's a different story altogether. If a person likes the Alessandro house sound; they will like all of the models. They all seem to sound the "same" but with differing levels of "better"!

I understand I'm simplifying somewhat, but that's more or less my take on the situation. If MS-1 sounded like SR-60 and used the same less expensive materials used in the SR-60 and cost the same price, then yes; there would be no reason to have the two models. But the MS-1 does use the more expensive materials, but keeps their costs down by eliminating the surprizingly expensive to produce and install ID button and perhaps even undercuts the Grado pricing structure at this level, but tons of folks in numerous polls and comparison threads have voiced the opinion that MS-1 is indeed different.

....the pricing structure is cool!

X
X+2X
X+2X+4X

Elegant!

 

[BrookR1]

I'm not sure what you just said, but I'll try a paul van dyk CD and see if I notice more bass with the SR-60s. Funny, when I listened to the Arctic Monkeys' "The View From The Afternoon", I thought I initially heard more bass in the MS-1s. But when I switched back to the SR-60s at the same point in time, the bass was still there. But, maybe this isn't the correct song to make a comparison with? Can anyone else recommend a good song that will polarize the two headphones?

 

[donunus]

Well, theres so many frequencies in the bass region. 60hz feels stronger on the sr60s while bass around 100hz and above might sound more defined on the ms1 since the lower midbass doesn't mask it as much. I wish i still had both of them now to compare

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by F107plus5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If MS-1 sounded like SR-60 and used the same less expensive materials used in the SR-60 and cost the same price, then yes; there would be no reason to have the two models. But the MS-1 does use the more expensive materials, but keeps their costs down by eliminating the surprizingly expensive to produce and install ID button and perhaps even undercuts the Grado pricing structure at this level...

That thought came to me as well. Aside from the cheap stock comfy pads (which I despise), the manufacturing materials most closely resemble those of the more expensive SR-125. That, I suppose, makes the hypothetical Grado business model that has been discussed less plausible. Fun discussion though...I love all of these cloak-&-dagger conspiracy theories!

 

[F107plus5]

One thing this discussion has really brought back into focus is my long standing desire to get a pair of SR-60. I was thinking of getting some new phones for the oldest of the Grandkids for his birthday. He's mature enough to take care of them, and it would give me a good chance to find out something that I've been extremely curious about for a long, long time!

....I'd be sure to personally break them in very carefully for him!

 

[unclejr]

I, too, wish I had a pair of 60s to compare! And a decent source. And maybe one of those new-fangled Apaches ...

Dear Santa,

...

 

[donunus]

F107plus5,
Pls post your impressions on the sr60 in comparison with your alessandros