[watchnerd]

  in fact I believe that several testimonies about highres are from people who heard windows resampler or a crappy 44.1 filter on their DAC. and that's why abx fails even when they really heard a difference, because a proper abx will usually have both files in a container at the same resolution.

 
Yes, there is also the important Non-Oversampling DAC / No Filter DAC caveat.

 

[Gringo]

I gave you just such an example of a false statement/conclusion earlier in the thread (post #489). There are one or two obvious factual errors but actually it's a very cleverly written article with very few factual errors that I can easily spot. I say "easily spot" because the author has presented much of the data in very convoluted ways, using atypical scales and measurements, where the only purpose appears to be a deliberate attempt to make it far more difficult than it should be to interpret that data. The more obvious falsehoods come in the form of conflating different things. For example, computational neuroscience models and potential areas of speculation/research suggested by those models, presented as actual evidence of what we can hear, as well as the aforementioned factual errors such as: "A central axiom of MQA is that sound we hear is analogue; digital technology is most useful for storage, transformation or transmission." - Oh dear, I hope that's not a central axiom of MQA because the sound we hear is obviously acoustic, NOT analogue, unless everyone has an electrical input instead of ears which I don't know about?!

G

So often comments made in this thread are presented as science but are actually just opinions and speculation.
"presented much of the data in very convoluted ways..." this is simply an opinion

"... where the only purpose appears to be deliberate attempt to make it far more difficult than it should be to interpret that data." again this is an opinion betraying what some might argue is inherent bias.

Acoustic sound waves we hear are analogue. I have an analogue watch which outputs movement and audible ticks and it does not contain a battery.

I could put much more weight to all the supposedly "scientific arguments" throughout this thread if they were presented better. Comments such as unproven, doubtful, requires verifying evidence, contry to the evidence published (reference provided) etc. are much more meaningful. Question and challenge claims/arguments robustly but casting aspersions is simply not helpful

No insults or offence is intended, just my reflections

 

[watchnerd]

I'm a firm believer that DSP, both in the form of active speakers with DSP crossovers and for room EQ, is the future direction of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
This runs from modestly ambitious speakers like the KEF LS50 Wireless up to the Kii Three and finally to cost-no-object speakers like the Beolab 90.
 
None of these concepts are MQA compatible.
 
This disqualifies MQA for those interested in such platforms and locks MQA HW buyers into old architectures based on passive transducers.

 

[Gringo]

watchnerd said:
 
"I'm a firm believer that DSP, both in the form of active speakers with DSP crossovers and for room EQ, is the future direction of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
This runs from modestly ambitious speakers like the KEF LS50 Wireless up to the Kii Three and finally to cost-no-object speakers like the Beolab 90.
 
None of these concepts are MQA compatible.
 
This disqualifies MQA for those interested in such platforms and locks MQA HW buyers into old architectures based on passive transducers.
 
I think you may well be right regarding the future of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
Meridian actually produce active DSP speakers capable of exploiting MQA when matched to an appropriate MQA enabled DAC but they are for most people prohibitively expensive. I may well be quite wrong but I can't see KEF and B&O rushing anytime soon to embrace MQA.
 
I have heard it said that one of the reasons MQA was completely split off from Meridian was to try and make MQA a more palatable option for Meridian's market competitors. I think only if MQA really does take off in a very significant way will the likes of Keff, B&O, Linn etc. embrace it and the jury is still out on that one and many on this forum believe is doomed to failure.
 
I also understand that there are over 600 MQA titles available on Tidal and that Warner are planning to release over 30,000 titles.  It will still in my opinion need the other major record labels plus Spotify and Apple to do likewise for MQA to really succeed.
 
No insults or offence is intended, just my reflections

 

[castleofargh]

@Gringo the name of this section is not ideal IMO. but it's fairly obvious that not everybody is a scientist and that it's not the purpose of this section. ideally we try to stick to consensus and more or less basic principles of the scientific method. most of all we try to make clear what is objective and what is subjective. but that's the ideal situation, there is no actual rule forcing people to back up their claims(and that's really annoying sometimes). so without evidence, as you say, it's proper to treat everything as opinions. that's probably the best advice one can give in life.
 
 
about DSP it's not impossible, they only need to decode the salsa, then apply DSPs, and after that, go do the actual DAC job. so software decoding of MQA will give options. but for whatever unclear stuff they do with the full MQA package and hardware decoding in the DAC, that will not make things simple. but hey, many people are ok with DSD so everything is possible.

 

[watchnerd]

  many people are ok with DSD so everything is possible.

 
Do any of the recent digital input active speakers natively handle DSD, either?
 
I've only read about them handling 24/192 PCM.

 

[gregorio]

... this is simply an opinion

No insults or offence is intended, just my reflections

 
Your "reflections" are valid but my opinions are not?
 

Acoustic sound waves we hear are analogue.

 
What are acoustic sound waves analogous to?
 
G

 

[watchnerd]

   
Your "reflections" are valid but my opinions are not?
 
 
What are acoustic sound waves analogous to?
 
G

 
Come on, guys.  
 
Don't get into some stupid semantics battle on the meaning of the word 'analog' when it comes to real world sound traveling through the air.
 
It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

 

[Gringo]

Totally agree, I have no intentions of playing semantics and will leave it there and let others interpret what they thought regarding the validity of my comments one way or the other.

 

[old tech]

It may be semantics but this is a sound science forum.  We do not hear analog (we can't hear electrons down a wire or magnetic tape particles) and acoustic sound is not analog.
 
The way humans hear acoustic sound is a combination of analog and psuedo digital (ie the on/off firing of hair cells and neurons), but that is by the way.

 

[watchnerd]

  It may be semantics but this is a sound science forum.  We do not hear analog (we can't hear electrons down a wire or magnetic tape particles) and acoustic sound is not analog.
 
The way humans hear acoustic sound is a combination of analog and psuedo digital (ie the on/off firing of hair cells and neurons), but that is by the way.

 
If you guys want to debate how we hear and what to call it, as a courtesy to the rest of us who want to talk MQA, do you mind creating a separate thread?

 

[old tech]

But this is discussing a comparison between MQA and these lossless rates. Anecdotal comments are suggesting a difference, but so far there is no scientific study this forum recognises showing this.

Yes, that is what I was getting at - perhaps in a cryptic manner.

 

[jagwap]

  I'm a firm believer that DSP, both in the form of active speakers with DSP crossovers and for room EQ, is the future direction of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
This runs from modestly ambitious speakers like the KEF LS50 Wireless up to the Kii Three and finally to cost-no-object speakers like the Beolab 90.
 
None of these concepts are MQA compatible.
 
This disqualifies MQA for those interested in such platforms and locks MQA HW buyers into old architectures based on passive transducers.

 

   
Do any of the recent digital input active speakers natively handle DSD, either?
 
I've only read about them handling 24/192 PCM.

Yes, some from Sony: SRS-X9, Yamaha NX-N500. Of course it may be a DSD to PCM conversion.  Hard to say without detailed electrical measurements, which a rare thing with active speakers.
 
There is nothing particularly difficult about add DSD or MQA to active speakers.
 
Edit: Oh, of course multiple Meridian speakers have MQA.

 

[jagwap]

  watchnerd said:
 
"I'm a firm believer that DSP, both in the form of active speakers with DSP crossovers and for room EQ, is the future direction of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
This runs from modestly ambitious speakers like the KEF LS50 Wireless up to the Kii Three and finally to cost-no-object speakers like the Beolab 90.
 
None of these concepts are MQA compatible.
 
This disqualifies MQA for those interested in such platforms and locks MQA HW buyers into old architectures based on passive transducers.
 
I think you may well be right regarding the future of meaningful improvements in home audio playback.
 
Meridian actually produce active DSP speakers capable of exploiting MQA when matched to an appropriate MQA enabled DAC but they are for most people prohibitively expensive. I may well be quite wrong but I can't see KEF and B&O rushing anytime soon to embrace MQA.
 
I have heard it said that one of the reasons MQA was completely split off from Meridian was to try and make MQA a more palatable option for Meridian's market competitors. I think only if MQA really does take off in a very significant way will the likes of Keff, B&O, Linn etc. embrace it and the jury is still out on that one and many on this forum believe is doomed to failure.
 
I also understand that there are over 600 MQA titles available on Tidal and that Warner are planning to release over 30,000 titles.  It will still in my opinion need the other major record labels plus Spotify and Apple to do likewise for MQA to really succeed.
 
No insults or offence is intended, just my reflections

I wouldn't rule out B&O.  A bunch of very smart engineers unfortunately being decimated by large redundancies, and the company is for sale.  B&O Play is another beast entirely: almost all engineering is done by Chinese and Taiwanese design houses.  
 
Linn and Naim are Meridian competitors, so it will be interesting.  B&W less so.  Harman may be a bit busy with a re-org after Samsung bought them.
 
But for sizeable penetration you need the likes of Sony, Panasonic, Samsung/Harman, LG, Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer... Wait, the last two already have MQA products out!

 

[Dadracer]

I have been a Tidal HiFi convert for a couple of years now to the point where it has become my main source of audio/music over my physical media sources of Vinyl and CD. It is just so easy to use and the choice is so much wider than my own collection of discs.
 
So then I was of course very interested in the possibility of MQA, despite having no relevant hardware on either of my systems.
 
I therefore "invested" in a Meridian Explorer2 as a toe in the water exercise to try it and see if I could determine a difference and then if that difference was preferable to the system I had for Tidal streaming.
 
In short then yes there is a difference and yes it is preferable to red book in the albums I have heard so far. It is not a complete answer as the number of MQA albums as Tidal Masters is relatively small in comparison to the Tidal HiFi collection but I am sure that will grow over time to hopefully include some of my favourites. I appreciate that there are also MQA albums for download, but I am not a great fan of downloads from their pricing as 1 album can be most of a months Tidal subscription, but that will be different for different folks to choose.
 
So in conclusion and for today, I am pleasantly surprised with MQA right now and would recommend folks to try it in their systems as an ME2 is not expensive (you can get it on Amazon at a discount!!!) and hopefully it will succeed and go on to even better things.