Moto Z and Moto Z Force - perfect candidates for a high end DAC/AMP
- Thread starter mangamonster
- Start date
Having both the lg v30 and the z force and having a bluewave Get, yes I did/do need a better DAC than stock.
skwoodwiva
500+ Head-Fier
Ok.Having both the lg v30 and the z force and having a bluewave Get, yes I did/do need a better DAC than stock.
I updated my op.
skwoodwiva
500+ Head-Fier
Look hereHaving both the lg v30 and the z force and having a bluewave Get, yes I did/do need a better DAC than stock.
https://forum.xda-developers.com/moto-z-play/themes/music-players-one-standout-dac-to-192k-t3533577
wazd
New Head-Fier
Hello!
I'm Andrey Zhilin (@andrewzhilin) and together with my friend and colleague Dirk van Leersum (@dirkvanleersum) we re currently developing a reasonably hi-end DAC/AMP MOD for Motorola Z family while participating in Motorola's promotional campaign @indiegogo. I'm unable to start a stand-alone thread (for perfectly legitimate reasons) so I'll hi-jack this thread instead until I'm considered worthy
Quick survey:
Who are you?
Two rogue developers, I'm a self-proclaimed product designer (https://www.behance.net/wazd) and Dirk is a highly-qualified electrical engineer (http://vlman.com/).
Why you matter?
We already have a successful crowdfunded campaign behind our backs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla so we do know how product development works.
Where's the link to your campaign?
We haven't started yet because, like I said, we know how it should work and we need to sort all the R&D issues out before asking for anyone's cash.
What's your status?
Pre-render image link:https://imgur.com/a/Hiq1N
Right now we have a neat hardware design already developed for the mod. We have a reliable plastic injection molding manufacturer for the shell. We have several manufacturers for the "precision plexi" part in the works...
...Hold up, plexi? Why not glass? It's trending!
Sure, but firstly it will cost a fortune, secondly it will break, you don't want that...
...yeah, but what about scratches?
Plexi will have a hard coating on one side, it will not scratch as easily as a regular one. Here's some random internet dude explaining this stuff.
As for the shell part it will have a nice soft touch coating. Basically as expensive feel as plastic can get.
Why not aluminium?
Cause of the radio interference issues, it would still be a phone, it needs signal.
Alright, but what will happen when your Moto Z becomes obsolete? Just throw all this stuff away?
No, our approach is to make a DAC/AMP with standalone capability thru dedicated USB-C port. This is why we're not using Motorola's I2C data instead of placing a whole bunch of ICs on the board.
Balanced?
No, not really. No market in that category for balanced output.
Ok, back to the DAC/AMP itself. What's inside?
Now here's the tricky part. As good as Dirk is (and he's the best) he's not an audiophile, so we're looking for any kind of help with selecting proper components for the mod. We don't want to blindly copy some Fiio or any other PCB without justification and knowledge why this component has been chosen. We've already started our research and decided to use AK4493EQ as a DAC cause it's pretty packed but doesn't have a price tag of a freakin' car like AK4497 For microcontroller we're looking at XMOS XUF208 cause, well, it seems reliable and manufacturers use it. As for all the other crucial components - it's a mess I mean, a whole new world.
Unfortunately we don't have years for trial and error method (wish we had) so we need your help with this. If you guys can answer a bunch of straight questions about the internals, what to look after, what should be the target, you will help us a lot. If anyone capable of designing a board wants to join our team for his or her fair share of (miserable) profits - that would be even better but any help would be very appreciated. Right now we're rushing thru this epic https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/
What's the budget?
Our target price is <$200. Sans all the production expenses and (again, miserable) margins we will have around 100$ net for the PCB itself.
When will you ask for money? c'mon!
We don't need money, we have a pretty solid R&D budget for this project and a strict rule not to use any crowd funds for R&D. So until we would be able to offer a final package - we're covered. But thanks for asking
Anyway, I hope I didn't break any local rules with this post, will appreciate your help, people. Will also post development updates in here if nobody minds.
Thanks,
Andrey
I'm Andrey Zhilin (@andrewzhilin) and together with my friend and colleague Dirk van Leersum (@dirkvanleersum) we re currently developing a reasonably hi-end DAC/AMP MOD for Motorola Z family while participating in Motorola's promotional campaign @indiegogo. I'm unable to start a stand-alone thread (for perfectly legitimate reasons) so I'll hi-jack this thread instead until I'm considered worthy
Quick survey:
Who are you?
Two rogue developers, I'm a self-proclaimed product designer (https://www.behance.net/wazd) and Dirk is a highly-qualified electrical engineer (http://vlman.com/).
Why you matter?
We already have a successful crowdfunded campaign behind our backs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla so we do know how product development works.
Where's the link to your campaign?
We haven't started yet because, like I said, we know how it should work and we need to sort all the R&D issues out before asking for anyone's cash.
What's your status?
Pre-render image link:https://imgur.com/a/Hiq1N
Right now we have a neat hardware design already developed for the mod. We have a reliable plastic injection molding manufacturer for the shell. We have several manufacturers for the "precision plexi" part in the works...
...Hold up, plexi? Why not glass? It's trending!
Sure, but firstly it will cost a fortune, secondly it will break, you don't want that...
...yeah, but what about scratches?
Plexi will have a hard coating on one side, it will not scratch as easily as a regular one. Here's some random internet dude explaining this stuff.
As for the shell part it will have a nice soft touch coating. Basically as expensive feel as plastic can get.
Why not aluminium?
Cause of the radio interference issues, it would still be a phone, it needs signal.
Alright, but what will happen when your Moto Z becomes obsolete? Just throw all this stuff away?
No, our approach is to make a DAC/AMP with standalone capability thru dedicated USB-C port. This is why we're not using Motorola's I2C data instead of placing a whole bunch of ICs on the board.
Balanced?
No, not really. No market in that category for balanced output.
Ok, back to the DAC/AMP itself. What's inside?
Now here's the tricky part. As good as Dirk is (and he's the best) he's not an audiophile, so we're looking for any kind of help with selecting proper components for the mod. We don't want to blindly copy some Fiio or any other PCB without justification and knowledge why this component has been chosen. We've already started our research and decided to use AK4493EQ as a DAC cause it's pretty packed but doesn't have a price tag of a freakin' car like AK4497
For microcontroller we're looking at XMOS XUF208 cause, well, it seems reliable and manufacturers use it. As for all the other crucial components - it's a mess I mean, a whole new world.Unfortunately we don't have years for trial and error method (wish we had) so we need your help with this. If you guys can answer a bunch of straight questions about the internals, what to look after, what should be the target, you will help us a lot. If anyone capable of designing a board wants to join our team for his or her fair share of (miserable) profits - that would be even better but any help would be very appreciated. Right now we're rushing thru this epic https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/
What's the budget?
Our target price is <$200. Sans all the production expenses and (again, miserable) margins we will have around 100$ net for the PCB itself.
When will you ask for money? c'mon!
We don't need money, we have a pretty solid R&D budget for this project and a strict rule not to use any crowd funds for R&D. So until we would be able to offer a final package - we're covered. But thanks for asking
Anyway, I hope I didn't break any local rules with this post, will appreciate your help, people. Will also post development updates in here if nobody minds.
Thanks,
Andrey
Last edited:
h2c4
New Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jul 7, 2014
- Posts
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- 10
This would be a dream come true
Hello!
I'm Andrey Zhilin (@andrewzhilin) and together with my friend and colleague Dirk van Leersum (@dirkvanleersum) we re currently developing a reasonably hi-end DAC/AMP MOD for Motorola Z family while participating in Motorola's promotional campaign @indiegogo. I'm unable to start a stand-alone thread (for perfectly legitimate reasons) so I'll hi-jack this thread instead until I'm considered worthy
Quick survey:
Who are you?
Two rogue developers, I'm a self-proclaimed product designer (https://www.behance.net/wazd) and Dirk is a highly-qualified electrical engineer (http://vlman.com/).
Why you matter?
We already have a successful crowdfunded campaign behind our backs https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2028347278/tohkbd-the-other-half-keyboard-for-your-jolla so we do know how product development works.
Where's the link to your campaign?
We haven't started yet because, like I said, we know how it should work and we need to sort all the R&D issues out before asking for anyone's cash.
What's your status?
Pre-render image link:https://imgur.com/a/Hiq1N
Right now we have a neat hardware design already developed for the mod. We have a reliable plastic injection molding manufacturer for the shell. We have several manufacturers for the "precision plexi" part in the works...
...Hold up, plexi? Why not glass? It's trending!
Sure, but firstly it will cost a fortune, secondly it will break, you don't want that...
...yeah, but what about scratches?
Plexi will have a hard coating on one side, it will not scratch as easily as a regular one. Here's some random internet dude explaining this stuff.
As for the shell part it will have a nice soft touch coating. Basically as expensive feel as plastic can get.
Why not aluminium?
Cause of the radio interference issues, it would still be a phone, it needs signal.
Alright, but what will happen when your Moto Z becomes obsolete? Just throw all this stuff away?
No, our approach is to make a DAC/AMP with standalone capability thru dedicated USB-C port. This is why we're not using Motorola's I2C data instead of placing a whole bunch of ICs on the board.
Balanced?
No, not really. No market in that category for balanced output.
Ok, back to the DAC/AMP itself. What's inside?
Now here's the tricky part. As good as Dirk is (and he's the best) he's not an audiophile, so we're looking for any kind of help with selecting proper components for the mod. We don't want to blindly copy some Fiio or any other PCB without justification and knowledge why this component has been chosen. We've already started our research and decided to use AK4493EQ as a DAC cause it's pretty packed but doesn't have a price tag of a freakin' car like AK4497
Unfortunately we don't have years for trial and error method (wish we had) so we need your help with this. If you guys can answer a bunch of straight questions about the internals, what to look after, what should be the target, you will help us a lot. If anyone capable of designing a board wants to join our team for his or her fair share of (miserable) profits - that would be even better but any help would be very appreciated. Right now we're rushing thru this epic https://www.head-fi.org/threads/the-diyrs-cookbook.781268/
What's the budget?
Our target price is <$200. Sans all the production expenses and (again, miserable) margins we will have around 100$ net for the PCB itself.
When will you ask for money? c'mon!
We don't need money, we have a pretty solid R&D budget for this project and a strict rule not to use any crowd funds for R&D. So until we would be able to offer a final package - we're covered. But thanks for asking
Anyway, I hope I didn't break any local rules with this post, will appreciate your help, people. Will also post development updates in here if nobody minds.
Thanks,
Andrey
Too little, too late for me... Where were you a year ago?!
Good luck with the project.
wazd
New Head-Fier
Yeah, that's what I thought too
Right now we're trying to process all these terabytes of information about Class A AMPs and DAC specs done right without our brain exploding all over the place We really want to make it right, not just some crappy fake device, so yeah, a lot of stuff to figure out.To be honest we participated a year ago with a (who would have thought) keyboard project but after long struggle we've abandoned, it was too complex to realize for the budget we had. Some other guy is *just* releasing his keyboard mod, that's cool but not quite profitable. So now we've decided to make something without moving parts and with clear knowledge what the platform allows us. Now it's all up to the audio part. God help us allToo little, too late for me... Where were you a year ago?!
Thank you all for the kind words, I'll try to keep this thread updated as soon as we will have progress on the audio part (I don't think you're interested in other aspects anyway).
-Andrey
jjmai
1000+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 24, 2009
- Posts
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Has anyone tried taking apart a jbl speaker mod, and see if can wire out the pre-amp audio output?
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