[FeedYourHead]

This seems to be a pretty hard sound signature to find, so I figured I'd start a post on it. I currently own a pair of HD-598, as well as some KZ ZS10 Pro IEMs. I'm generally pretty happy with the 598, but would enjoy something that's a bit of an upgrade overall, as well as having a stronger response at 80hz and below. In addition, great extension would be wonderful; something that doesn't start rolling off before 30hz would be ideal, and a bit of a boost ~50hz and below would be great.

Neutrality at other frequencies is prefered, I'd rather hear music the way it was recorded. A small boost over 10khz would be welcome for these old ears, though.

Price, sadly, needs to stay under $500, preferably under $350, although i wouldn't mind hear about more expensive cans that fit the criteria that maybe i could aspire to own in the future.


I recently received the Sivga Phoenix, and have a HD-560s on the way. I'm also looking at some Avantone Planars if those don't fit the bill. I realize that finding a headphone that perfectly fits my criteria may be impossible, especially for the price, but am curious to hear what people think I should be looking at. Thanks for reading!

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Extented and elevated subbass spells out closedback headphone to me. You’re not going to find an openback with those qualities.
The only genuinely neutral headphone with extended and slightly elevated subbass that I can think of is the K371.

Edith:
I thought of two “openback” planars: Æon Flow RT and the Empyrean.
Double-edith: my head is working very slowly today, my apologies. The Ollo S4X or the older model S4 could be just the ticket

 

[bagwell359]

Extented and elevated subbass spells out closedback headphone to me. You’re not going to find an openback with those qualities.
The only genuinely neutral headphone with extended and slightly elevated subbass that I can think of is the K371.

Edith:
I thought of two “openback” planars: Æon Flow RT and the Empyrean.
Double-edith: my head is working very slowly today, my apologies. The Ollo S4X or the older model S4 could be just the ticket

Used HE-500, LCD-2 come to mind, both would take an EQ bass boost (both needs 2 wpc@38Ohms. Both have good timbre for a bass head. LCD-2 a bit mellow up top. 500's have a lively treble. Open back bass is more accurate in my experience than closed back. In the $800-900 area you can find HE-6 and HE-6se. The first is one of the legendary bass cans of the past decade, the 2nd not quite as famous in the bass, but really good (and newer) overall a bit more even than the original 6. Both need about 8 watts@50 ohms to sing.

 

[AnRen]

Extented and elevated subbass spells out closedback headphone to me. You’re not going to find an openback with those qualities.
The only genuinely neutral headphone with extended and slightly elevated subbass that I can think of is the K371.

Edith:
I thought of two “openback” planars: Æon Flow RT and the Empyrean.
Double-edith: my head is working very slowly today, my apologies. The Ollo S4X or the older model S4 could be just the ticket

AKG K245 not neutral and sub-bass extended?

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

^Hah...I knew there was something I was missing. The K245 is actually a very good candidate for this thread

 

[cycloverid]

A planar magnetic driver is your best bet here - there are some incredibly capable drivers out there. With EQ, some of these can have the same impact as a solid closed back, moving enough air to create a very satisfying sub bass feeling.

I recently put the Sundaras through a bit of sub bass experiment. These have a bit of sub bass roll-off (sounding very anemic out of the box to me), but have an incredible driver in there. With a 50hz low shelf of about +10-15db, these have fairly fantastic sub bass (with no audible distortion at these levels) and a very good tonality overall. Of course, you'd need a lot of volume headroom for this, but just a thought.

I know many in here will probably find this distasteful, but if you want the incredible sub bass of a closed back and more soundstage, this is an extremely overlooked option imo.

 

[AlwaysForward]

This seems to be a pretty hard sound signature to find, so I figured I'd start a post on it. I currently own a pair of HD-598, as well as some KZ ZS10 Pro IEMs. I'm generally pretty happy with the 598, but would enjoy something that's a bit of an upgrade overall, as well as having a stronger response at 80hz and below. In addition, great extension would be wonderful; something that doesn't start rolling off before 30hz would be ideal, and a bit of a boost ~50hz and below would be great.

Neutrality at other frequencies is prefered, I'd rather hear music the way it was recorded. A small boost over 10khz would be welcome for these old ears, though.

Price, sadly, needs to stay under $500, preferably under $350, although i wouldn't mind hear about more expensive cans that fit the criteria that maybe i could aspire to own in the future.


I recently received the Sivga Phoenix, and have a HD-560s on the way. I'm also looking at some Avantone Planars if those don't fit the bill. I realize that finding a headphone that perfectly fits my criteria may be impossible, especially for the price, but am curious to hear what people think I should be looking at. Thanks for reading!

this is actually how the ORA GrapheneQ is tuned but I think it’s hard to acquire at the moment. Pretty happy with mine.

 

[plakat]

Very interesting question, especially since it matches my taste in tuning as well...
the already mentioned AKG K-371 might be the best option I've heard, specifically boosting the low bass. Comfort could be a bit better though. Given the current price of below 90€ I might try out the K-275, which seems to share a rather solid bass with the K-245 mentioned above (I prefer closed back), and I might have to test the T5.3 as well, though it's not only boosting low bass according to some recent measurements but upper bass as well.

 

[FeedYourHead]

Thanks everyone for all these awesome suggestions!!

As I'm trying to upgrade over my HD-598, which I quite like, It's probably going to take a headphone north of the $200 mark to accomplish that. I'm currently listening to the HD-560s and really enjoying them. I think they fit the criteria of this thread rather well, and would recommend them to anyone looking for something in their price range. I may as well copy my thoughts so far from the 560s thread:



"Super close to the 598, as expected. A bit more treble at a certain frequency, and less so across entire treble range. It's something that sounds like it was needed, IMO. Never what I'd call sibilant or harsh, though. The midrange still sounds a bit more natural on the 598, but it's not huge. The bass is a decent improvement over the 598, and nearly as noticeable. Better extension for sure, but suffers the same issue of the 598 that it won't take much boost at all in the subbass before distortion becomes audible.

The 598 still sound damn good. I'm quite surprised that a headphone that's truly 10 years old (Aug 2010) is even able to hang with some recently released darlings. The narrative sometime seems to be that every 6 months, a headphone comes out that's a significant improvement on what came before it, which may lead one to believe that old headphones aren't nearly as good as what available now. So for anyone out there with old but good cans who may read this and has a serious case of FOMO, just relax, lol.

That said, I'm quite enjoying the 560s. They will be staying for the meantime, and the Phoenix are being returned. I just don't see the hype. Bass was a bit better than my 598 (but not nearly as much as I'd been lead to believe) but the tiny earcups/pads (these are on-ear headphones, I don't care what Sivga says) means my glasses break the seal, and I lose bass. Additionally, the sound was muddy and congested, the soundstage was poor, they sounded shouty compared to the others, and the frequency response was very notchy and uneven. Great build quality and accessories, though.

Oof, just got chills listening on the 560s to Sofia by Clairo, when the wide voices come in at 2:30. So good.

So I'm just gonna keep listening to these (LOTR soundtracks currently) and see if they improve any. They're really good, but I'm not totally sure yet if the slight bump in quality is really worth $200. It probably is, but being that one of my uses is music production, I'm not sure how much sense it makes to have an only slightly different variation of what I already have. It may make more sense to have something that gives me a sonic snapshot from a different angle, although one that is also near linear.

Hmm, listening to Lost in Emyn Mull from The Two Towers soundtrack, there's a particularly stressful passage starting at 3:20 till the crescendo at 3:40 where the 560s seem to struggle with distortion in the bass/subbass region, even with the EQ off at a moderate volume. It seems to poke it's head up at times in other songs as well. For anyone curious, I'm using a Focusrite 18i8 ( a digital audio interface that goes for about $400) to drive all headphones. It makes it really nice for comparisons as there two identical headphone outs with their own volume knobs, so I can easily match volume and compare sound signatures as quickly as I can put them on my head."




@Kammerat Rebekka I like the Flow RT suggestion but found it hard to find reviews on that particular model, do you have any idea when the retune happened? I also like the Ollo S4x suggestion, it's one I looked at before, but I'm not sure I want to go through international shipping returns. It's also cheaper on EU Amazon than what I can get it from the manufacturer for.

@cycloverid that's one of the more interesting suggestions here, and I've heard so many good things about the Sundara in general that I took the plunge and ordered a pair! The fact that they're available on Amazon with their painless return policy is a major plus as well. I've heard about the rolled off subbass which kept me away, but apparently that was improved at some point. If they take EQ as good as you say, I may end up sending back the HD-560s. They'll be here Saturday.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I think the Retuned happened this summer and as far as I know can only be bought directly from DCA...then again it should be the same headphone as the one you can buy off Drop in a midnight blue colour

 

[Skullar]

Id dare to suggest Emu Teaks (teak cups). They are more of a semi open design. So they wont be as airy as fully open. They have a slight focus on subbass over midbass. And bass is slightly elevated, but they dont have scooped out mids. Though not sure if treble is going to be enough if you want it boosted they just are warmish and fairly balanced to my ears.
Many say theyre one of best closed backs available regardless of price. And i think you can get them for/under $500 used.

I personally think they are quite versatile for many genres.

 

[cycloverid]

@FeedYourHead
You're going to love the Sundara I think. I tested the sub bass scalability compared to an LCD-GX, and the Sundara is only slightly behind it (most likely due to the better seal on the LCD). But the Sundara tuning sounds incredible out of the box to me in comparison and is less than half the price.

You'll need a magni/atom level of power for it, but I assume you know that from doing some research.

 

[FeedYourHead]

A planar magnetic driver is your best bet here - there are some incredibly capable drivers out there. With EQ, some of these can have the same impact as a solid closed back, moving enough air to create a very satisfying sub bass feeling.

I recently put the Sundaras through a bit of sub bass experiment. These have a bit of sub bass roll-off (sounding very anemic out of the box to me), but have an incredible driver in there. With a 50hz low shelf of about +10-15db, these have fairly fantastic sub bass (with no audible distortion at these levels) and a very good tonality overall. Of course, you'd need a lot of volume headroom for this, but just a thought.

I know many in here will probably find this distasteful, but if you want the incredible sub bass of a closed back and more soundstage, this is an extremely overlooked option imo.

Wow, I really can't thank you enough for this suggestion!!! I've honestly been too busy enjoying these Sundaras to even respond. I also figured I'd wait till my Topping L30 was here to say anything definitively. The subbass quantity and quality on these are finally close to what modern music should sound like; like what I've come to expect while listening through my Chane home theatre speakers with SVS subwoofer that extends to the high teens.

The rest of the frequency range is stellar as well, very balanced and clear even with extreme EQ settings. I'm really surprised that people call these bright; they're definitely not as bright as the HD-560s. To me they're perfectly neutral. Detail retrieval is incredible (I'm hearing tons of new things on songs I've been listening to for 30 years), and the space around instruments will be very helpful for mixing.

Now with the Topping L30 in the mix, I'm getting enough juice for them to play loud and stay distortion-free even with a very generous subbass boost. I was using a normal peak filter (with the idea that a large low shelf would boost indaudible frequencies as well and possibly introduce distortion) with 15db@48hz, Q of 1.5... it's a bit thumpier than yours, but I do quite enjoy your low shelf (which is a bit smoother) as well. Does your EQ allow you to set a Q on shelf filters? Mine defaults at .5 but that made it a bit thick in the midbass for me, so I settled on a Q of .7 with 15db@60hz for a low shelf.

I was planning on ordering the Avantone Planars to compare with these, but there's just no need. The Sundaras are absolutely sensational, my Quest is over, I'm 100% happy. Hopefully they last for the next decade, like my HD-598 before them. I already sent the Sivga Phoenix back (yuck), and will be packaging up the HD-560s soon. They really couldn't take EQ at all, in fact these headphones distort with zero EQ. It's half the reason why I bought the Topping, as I didn't want people to assume it was me just underpowering them. The 560s definitely have an issue, and I'm quite surprised more users aren't hearing this.

 

[silent-circuit]

I am confident the Sundaras are head and shoulders above the Avatones. Having just read through at least part of the Avatone thread, there's a lot of 'oh god these are the best' going on which always rubs me the wrong way and leaves me thinking the people writing don't have a lot in the way of comparative experience. Not saying you don't occasionally find a diamond in the rough, but a $400 planar that looks to be built to a fairly low standard from a company I've never heard of, vs a $350 planar that debuted at $550 from one of the better known names in the industry... yeah, that's not much of a fight on paper.

I have heard the Sundaras and may at some point buy a pair, but for now my (admittedly eclectic) stable of headphones does what they do better, it just takes... 5 or 6 different models and is situation specific. High praise for the Sundaras really. I may get a pair eventually, regardless.

Glad you found them and are happy OP!

 

[cycloverid]

Yep, glad I could help - I also love these headphones!

I use Equalizer APO with the Peace Plugin (pretty popular). It has both a low shelf and a low shelf with quality setting. I'm currently using a +12db gain at 62hz low shelf. I'm a basshead, but I've been lowering it slowly over time as it's definitely better quality bass than my Oppo PM 3's. I tend to just mostly prefer an above neutral low bass rumble with pretty neutral everywhere else, but to each their own!

edit: The base shelf quality must be about .7 or so