[Vertigo-1]

ATRAC Type-S: "Type-S" apparently refers to a new chip containing an improved version of the ATRAC3 codec as well as the ATRAC1 Type-R codec; the combination of the two is called DSP Type-S. From Sony's information sheet: "The two new products MDS-JB980 and MDS-JE780 in the press announcement at CeBIT both adopt the newly developed DSP (Digital Signal Processing) IC chip "CXD2664R." The CXD2664R chip has two DSP functions; one is ATRAC DSP and the other is ATRAC3 DSP. The ATRAC DSP, the TYPE-R algorithm which is the version of the highest grade, is adopted, and the highest sound quality can be obtained at the time of recording. And the ATRAC3 DSP, the algorithm of a newly developed DSP is adopted. It can reproduce the track recorded in MDLP mode in very high sound quality at the time of reproduction. This works in the same way for the disc recorded by other MDLP products. Sony calls the DSP functions of the CXD2664R chip "ATRAC/ATRAC3 DSP TYPE-S". In other words, "ATRAC/ATRAC3 DSP TYPE-S" is a combination of "ATRAC DSP (TYPE-R highest Version)" and "ATRAC3 DSP (newly developed)."

Well, guess we can all continue buying the current Type-R ATRAC recorders with full confidence...I assume Type-S improves on MDLP sound quality more than anything.

 

[coolvij]

Cool cool. Thanks for the information - first I thought there was a Type-R replacement!......but now I know better

 

[MacDEF]

I saw this today, too, Vert. For those who can't read market-speak

Type-S is supposedly just a combination of TypeR recording, and an improved playback decoder. Kind of a lame way to name it, Sony...

 

[thomas]

lol

When Acura released the Integra type-R, sony copied the name with ATRAC Type-R

Then acura changed the name to RSX Type-S, and suddenly sony also changes their name to Type-S?

as vertigo said, it seems DSP only works with MDLP. Normal recordings continue to use the "type-R" dsp. I doubt anyone really will use this new technology; if you care about sound quality you wouldn't use MDLP anyways...

another intersting thing is that the new DSP works in the PLAYBACK side, not the recording side... All of the data has already been lost by then, and no DSP can recover it. The DSP can only apply filters to remove some of the artifacts of compression, but this will in fact lower the sound quality even more.

all of this, especially the naming, proves that the whole type-R/type-S DSP is simply a marketing ploy...Sharp MD's sound better without using any DSP.

 

[disturbed]

Quote:

Originally posted by thomas Sharp MD's sound better without using any DSP.

Heyy...I resent that...Type R recordings do sound good to me

. Though I have yet to compare it with the latest sharps. Hey anyone done any comparisons? Against the Sharp and Sony sound?

 

[Vertigo-1]

Well, with this all said and done, I confidently went out to a local store and came back home with a brand spanking new Sony NZ-707.

Time to see what the whole Type R rave is all about...

 

[Vertigo-1]

Well, so far the differences between Sony's ATRAC 4.5 and Type R are certainly subtle. However there is one primary difference...Type R definitely sounds "airier", and this is a quality that's not easy to pick up. Tonally neither really adds or subtracts anything which is what makes this tough to hear...but with 4.5, instruments sound very neutrally bland and flat. Type R adds a slight amount of airy warmth (and I don't mean tonally warm) around things. Differences may be more pronounced if I use a vocal MD, we'll see.

 

[thomas]

wow, another MD? how many do you have now

hmm.. it sounds like you're using it for playback, and not recording...

I thought that type-R is simply a more powerful ATRAC encoder, with no effect on playback? If that is the case, then newly recorded discs should sound noticably better, and this improvement should be noticable when played back on any MD...

 

[Vertigo-1]

I'm up to umm...3 recorders now. Two for keepsakes (the Kenwood Sharp 821 clone, and the Sharp 831...yah know, the last good recorders to have 'em 10mw outputs), one for the actual recording, the NZ-707.

And two players, the Sony E95 which is also in keepsake mode (i.e. in the closet, I just decided it was too rare and cool of a player to give up and lose money on) and the Sony E900.

Hey, I'm not nearly as bad as some of the dudes on Minidisc.org!

Quote:

hmm.. it sounds like you're using it for playback, and not recording...

I already had some MDs that were recorded using a R900, which is ATRAC 4.5. I simply rerecorded onto a seperate blank MD the same CD using the NZ-707, and making sure all sound settings were the same (both allow bass/treble adjustments), simultaneously played the old ATRAC 4.5 recording on the E900 while the NZ-707 played the newly recorded Type-R recording. I fast swapped MX500s between the two player's jacks, sometimes rewinding certain sections. And as far as I could tell, pretty much the only difference was that extra airy warmth that gave the sound more realistic sophistication, so the speak.

It was certainly not a day and night difference, and certainly not something I'd notice out on a busy street, but it was there.

Type R is supposed to be audible on any player/recorder out there after it has been applied to a recording. It's part of the recording process. On the other hand, Sony has been pimping Type R on their latest player onlys...I don't know if this implies that a ATRAC 4.5 recording will end up sounding like Type R on those players, or if it's just marketing B.S. that won't even work as advertised from my understanding of how Type R works.

 

[thomas]

oops, from your comment i thought you simply took one disc and playing it back on both players... But obviously someone with 5 md's knows better

I guess the type-R is just the next evolution of Sony's ATRAC decoder, not a breakthrough technology as its name implies. But they know their target market, and "type-R" sounds a lot cooler than ATRAC 5.0...


Quote:

...I don't know if this implies that a ATRAC 4.5 recording will end up sounding like Type R on those players, or if it's just marketing B.S. that won't even work as advertised from my understanding of how Type R works.

Most likely sony uses the same chipset for both the players and recorders, simply disabling the recorder features on players... so technically the players do have "type-R" DSPs inside, they just aren't used

The ATRAC version should not matter at all on the playback side... but after hearing differances between MP3 decoders on computer, i'm wondering if the same thing could apply to MD? Still, a DSP is totally useless for decoding/playback, which is why i'm so skeptical about this whole "type-R/S" stuff...

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by thomas The ATRAC version should not matter at all on the playback side...

To clarify: the version of ATRAC used to record *does* make a difference on the playback side... since you're giving the player a better recording. So a TypeR will sound better than a v4.5 which will sound better than a v3, all when played back on the same player.

But maybe that's what you meant

 

[thomas]

yep, that's what i meant... thinking and typing don't mix

 

[Mystyler]

From what I can gather, Type R recordings will sound like ATRAC 4.5 recordings on a non-Type R unit. Type R should only be noticable when played played back on a unit that is equipped with the R DSP. If you play back an R recording on a unit without DSP R, then it will sound like an ATRAC 4.5 recording.

Only SP recordings can be Type R. Any LP recordings with be standard ATRAC 3. On the newer Type S units, the LP modes *should* sound better, according to Sony, with DSP Type S.

Sorry if this post is irrelevant cause you may have already figured this out!

BTW, ATRAC version does indeed matter. Anyone ever heard an ATRAC 1 recording? Yeesh.

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Hmm, what's the next version letters after Type R and S? G, F?

RED ALERT: ROMULAN WARBIRD APPROACHING

 

[Mystyler]

Well, going by what Sony has done so far, it should be T!