[pecotunkA]

Considering the power draw, a budget stack like S.M.S.L. C200, or a Schiit Magni + Modi stack will do. I can't guarantee whether a dongle will provide optimal sound quality for a planar magnetic. This depends also upon the capabilities of the headphone, and whether they synergize well with your DAC/Amp. In head-fi review section, you can find people using Questyle M15 to power the Abyss AB-1266 phi TC, and SMSL C200 for powering a HE6Se, while leaving positive impressions.

I spent around 1300 Yuan or 178 usd to build my chain, not regarding the more expensive D300 DAC. I want to say a Topping E30 is enough, but the tonality might not be keeping up with this age. Heck, anything that provides 400mW is more than enough to guarantee the cleanliness of the sound. But yeah, you might have to research and cash in a bit to find idea powerhouse for the PARA. If possible, find some audiophile headphone local stores and demo their equipment, and find the sound you truly need.



Yeah, you might have to cash in a bit. I did mine by doing research. The 101db/Vrms is not mW, concerting to db/mW will result in 81db/mW, and people (I read in Reddit) state that they need more power draw than the Venus to sound optimally. Taobao customer review section consists of people spending quite a lot for their setup. Several of them owns DAC/Amp that costs more than the price of the PARA.

I would recommend the FiiO K7 for an AIO, but I'm not sure whether it powers as low as 8ohm. You might also venture into budget speaker amps to power these due to their 8ohms specifications that matches the output of many speaker amps.

thank you for relaying the Headfi review and Taobao information to me. yes regarding Topping L30 and E30, I was researching DAC amps a few years ago and didn't buy so those recommendations might be a bit old. at the time L30 was very good value, if perhaps performing a little too well therefore might sound too clean almost like Class D amplification instead of Class A which might be more suited to planar magnetic headphones.

Spoiler: Moondrop Para discussion.

the fact Para needs more power draw than Venus to sound optimal is interesting. very unusual for Moondrop to make the more expensive Venus headphones with more conventional specs (easier to find compatibility) and the half price Para is the one with very unusual impedance making it more difficult to source. usually you would think it's the other way around because more experienced customers usually go for the expensive models, and the lower priced model is more likely to be bought by newbies who lack understanding (like myself).

and yes speakers did come to mind when seeing the 8ohm spec. while possible, I assume the volume dial will be very sensitive and without some sort of physical modification to limit the turn of the volume dial you will be putting you hearing at risk every time you listen.

update: so I will follow your formatting instead of submitting a new comment and edit this one.

Moondrop official on Aliexpress still states if ordering now Para will arrive in 2 weeks and estimated to arrive on 10 October (previously estimate was 3 Oct when I checked 5 days ago) which is quite acceptable. but I would like to purchase from amazon so with a bit more peace of mind. current local amazon listing shows Shipped and Sold by Shenzhenaudio, with an estimated delivery of 8 November, a wait of 5 weeks.

so I did my research and looking at Venus release date of 21 November 2022, then Amazon US and local Amazon's Venus listing both which say date first available as 1st December 2022 (date listed for purchase shipped from Amazon warehouse). so that is a 10 day delay from release date until Amazon warehouse stock was available. I am hoping the Para will be available Fulfilled by Amazon in 3 days time on the 30th which is 10 days after Para's release date, then I can buy with some extra peace of mind and quick 1 to 2 day delivery.

 

[IamInnocentX3]

the fact Para needs more power draw than Venus to sound optimal is interesting. very unusual for Moondrop to make the more expensive Venus headphones with more conventional specs (easier to find compatibility) and the half price Para is the one with very unusual impedance making it more difficult to source. usually you would think it's the other way around because more experienced customers usually go for the expensive models, and the lower priced model is more likely to be bought by newbies who lack understanding (like myself).

I saw customer reviews on Taobao mentioned them being easier to drive than the Venus. Also coming along with comments like a FiiO KA13 or a Topping A50s that provides enough current to drive them.

The specs of the FiiO seems good enough, adding the juicy low price of $69.00 Although you might need to find a 4.4mm cable like the Line V for them.

Add in $60 more and you'll get the FiiO K11, a portable desktop DAC/Amp which provides 520mW (32ohm) in Single-Ended mode.

Edit: This also seems good as well. Look into 3:00 and 3:40.

 

[pecotunkA]

I saw customer reviews on Taobao mentioned them being easier to drive than the Venus. Also coming along with comments like a FiiO KA13 or a Topping A50s that provides enough current to drive them.

The specs of the FiiO seems good enough, adding the juicy low price of $69.00 Although you might need to find a 4.4mm cable like the Line V for them.



Add in $60 more and you'll get the FiiO K11, a portable desktop DAC/Amp which provides 520mW (32ohm) in Single-Ended mode.

Edit: This also seems good as well. Look into 3:00 and 3:40.

Spoiler: Moondrop Para discussion.

past two days I have been doing a tonne of research on my phone until 2am. too much research maybe I am tired of it now, but yes regarding Moondrop Para 81dB/mW and 8ohm compatibility with DAC amps and Amplifiers.

first of all I learned typical rule of output impedance of source must be under 1/8 of headphone's impedance. in this case Para's low 8ohm impedance means source output impedance must be below 1ohm otherwise there is a risk of negatively affecting sound quality and frequency response. usually this is not a problem for amplifiers used with headphones with 16ohm impedance or higher, but Para's low impedance means it comes very close and even crosses the line with some source devices. such as the KA13 you mentioned while having adequate power, has a potential output impedance of 1.7ohm which is too high for the Para risking diminished signal quality.

it seems this issue is mostly on DAC amps and portable USB DAC's as most proper desktop Topping and SMSL products (such as A30 Pro/SH-6) all have extremely low output impedance of <0.1ohm and fully compatible with the 8ohm Para.

so to chase ideal performance for 8ohm Para, it seems I may need to invest in a high power desktop separate DAC + amp setup which is not only expensive but restricts me to only listening at the desk. I had intended to have the Para driven by either Portable Digital Audio player or iPhone dongle and have the freedom to walk around the house. looks like this will not be happening.

I also did some calculations and can answer my own question I asked in a previous comment. typical peak listening volume required for calculation purposes is considered 110dB. I calculated my own peak listening volume and it was equal to 107dB, so slightly lower but not by much. this accounts for my source file material volume level (differences in file loudness) and so 107dB peak volume is very accurate. so here is where it gets stressful. to drive my current dynamic driver headphones to 107dB I only require 25mW of power, calculated by it's measured sensitivity in dB/mW. I did the same calculation for the Para, and I double triple checked it.
calculating from 81dB/1mW, all the way to 107dB/XmW. 26dB divided by 3dB steps (each step requires doubling of power) = 8.6666.
2 to the power of 8.66 = (so theoretically) 404mW of power is required to reach peak volume of 107dB (my average listening level).

keep in mind this calculation only applies to my personal peak listening level (different for every person), and the difference is huge because I am comparing it to a lower sensitivity dynamic driver headphone. but if you were to say do a comparison of Hifiman planar magnetic headphone vs Moondrop Para, the difference in power required will be much less and not be so shockingly different.

I think I need to reconsider getting the Para, because at this point to get what I want and optimal performance out of the Para I would like to power them with the Topping A30 Pro (Class A) headphone amp, plus by extension most likely the D30 Pro DAC which it stacks with. which means 3x the total cost I expected (when I discovered the Para I was just an uninformed customer looking at the information that mentioned "high sensitivity low impedance" thinking it would be able to be driven by Apple dongle and my Digital Audio player, but just by judging those two source's output in mW @ 32 ohms there is no chance it will be enough).

 

[IamInnocentX3]

Hmm, beginning to step into the path of audiophile eh? I have once been like that too, leading me to buy a second-hand Stax set... Then I discovered there were many things that were, not as they seemed.

All the best on your journey. Though, I would still recommend that you find a store to demo the equipment, spend time to see whether they are to your liking. I travel to another country risked it all for the stax, and after 3, no, 4 years then I found out that I was a victim of failed engineering.

Sorry for swaying off-topic here. Enjoy what you have, bud. Your research is your own notes towards how you will spend.

 

[pecotunkA]

Hmm, beginning to step into the path of audiophile eh? I have once been like that too, leading me to buy a second-hand Stax set... Then I discovered there were many things that were, not as they seemed.

All the best on your journey. Though, I would still recommend that you find a store to demo the equipment, spend time to see whether they are to your liking. I travel to another country risked it all for the stax, and after 3, no, 4 years then I found out that I was a victim of failed engineering.

Sorry for swaying off-topic here. Enjoy what you have, bud. Your research is your own notes towards how you will spend.

some further digging revealed more information about A30 Pro. it is only fully Class A when using headphones 250ohms and higher. for discrete Class A amplification for headphones, I will need to upgrade to Singer SA-1.
so knowing this now and that Topping L30ii (and L30) uses TPA6120A2 amp chip which is Class AB. L30ii appeals to me in terms of value if I am not going to get Class A amplification out of A30 Pro. I prefer to go with L30ii over L30 because of the QC issue I heard happened with L30 awhile ago.

L30ii Amp + E30ii DAC combo is about the same price as Para where I am. so I am thinking about it. still don't like the idea of being restricted to desk use though. well I guess good thing is it's the 30th today, and still the Para is not Fulfilled by Amazon so I have some more time to think about it.

 

[IamInnocentX3]

Wait out one or two years then you'll get a fully functional cheap dongle that gives class A 400mW.

In the meantime, there's Chord Mojo, Questyle M15, Cayin Ru7, and VE Prime + RA2B-FE stack that are considered portable options.

 

[TheFritz]

Wait out one or two years then you'll get a fully functional cheap dongle that gives class A 400mW.

In the meantime, there's Chord Mojo, Questyle M15, Cayin Ru7, and VE Prime + RA2B-FE stack that are considered portable options.

I received the MOONDROP PARA planar headphones from HifiGo yesterday (delivered to Germany within some days). On their side it is written "Moondrop presents the Para". The build seems not so different from the Venus (which I do not own and never heard); they are a bit on the heavy side despite the use of more plastic.

The cable is descent with 3.5mm TRS terminations. The PARA has indeed an impedance of about 8 Ohm only (measured a resistance of about 8.5 Ohms) and are moderately hard to drive to produce quality sound (liked them most on my Burson Soloist 3x GT, the Topping A90D and LA90 speaker amp - needed a third party balanced cable for that obviously).
I can confirm that you can also drive them quite well with a Questyle M15 Dongle-DAC (balanced, even in low gain) - not only loud but with good control and impact. But keep in mind that the M15 is specifically well suited for current hungry headphones.

I am not sure if the sound signature will please you... it is definitely not "relaxing"; more on the bright side. Two sets of pads are included: hybrid ones with an oval opening and a round fenestrated pleather set. They attach with a perforated metal plate to the magnets of the cups (a bit like my Verum 1 mk2 with their metal rings … which also is a 8 Ohm planar but that one sounds completely different). You can easily swap pads by attaching them to those metal discs and use many different 100mm pads if you wish.
Both pads are bass light and a bit harsh but also clear/analytical with very strange spatial characteristics (i.e. a mixture of spacious and intimate sound depending on frequencies). I prefer the fenestrated ones from the stock sets (green line in my MiniDSP EARS averaged and smoothed measurement plot below) despite the lower bass but I am not a bass-head.

In the meantime I did some first pad-swapping with some angled sheep-skin pads made for Fostex headphone. That raised the bass a bit and increased the stage size. The PARA adds some specific characteristics to my collection (of about 15 planars and >30 non-planar headphones) - so probably I am not a typical user and these are not typical general listening headphones. In my opinion the PARA are generally not suited for people who like smooth balanced sound (or typical planar bass) but still interesting - at least to me.

EDIT: added FR of third party sheepskin pads for comparison and for raw individual measurements of that pad (very good L/R driver matching BTW). The metal discs are an integral part of the tuning, using the rings of the Verum1 worsens the sound. Also they are very open although the cup grills look a bit more like close ones.

 

[pecotunkA]

I received the MOONDROP PARA planar headphones from HifiGo yesterday (delivered to Germany within some days). On their side it is written "Moondrop presents the Para". The build seems not so different from the Venus (which I do not own and never heard); they are a bit on the heavy side despite the use of more plastic.


The cable is descent with 3.5mm TRS terminations. The PARA has indeed an impedance of about 8 Ohm only (measured a resistance of about 8.5 Ohms) and are moderately hard to drive to produce quality sound (liked them most on my Burson Soloist 3x GT, the Topping A90D and LA90 speaker amp - needed a third party balanced cable for that obviously).
I can confirm that you can also drive them quite well with a Questyle M15 Dongle-DAC (balanced, even in low gain) - not only loud but with good control and impact. But keep in mind that the M15 is specifically well suited for current hungry headphones.

I am not sure if the sound signature will please you... it is definitely not "relaxing"; more on the bright side. Two sets of pads are included: hybrid ones with an oval opening and a round fenestrated pleather set. They attach with a perforated metal plate to the magnets of the cups (a bit like my Verum 1 mk2 with their metal rings … which also is a 8 Ohm planar but that one sounds completely different). You can easily swap pads by attaching them to those metal discs and use many different 100mm pads if you wish.
Both pads are bass light and a bit harsh but also clear/analytical with very strange spatial characteristics (i.e. a mixture of spacious and intimate sound depending on frequencies). I prefer the fenestrated ones from the stock sets (green line in my MiniDSP EARS averaged and smoothed measurement plot below) despite the lower bass but I am not a bass-head.

In the meantime I did some first pad-swapping with some angled sheep-skin pads made for Fostex headphone. That raised the bass a bit and increased the stage size. The PARA adds some specific characteristics to my collection (of about 15 planars and >30 non-planar headphones) - so probably I am not a typical user and these are not typical general listening headphones. In my opinion the PARA are generally not suited for people who like smooth balanced sound (or typical planar bass) but still interesting - at least to me.

EDIT: added FR of third party sheepskin pads for comparison and for raw individual measurements of that pad (very good L/R driver matching BTW). The metal discs are an integral part of the tuning, using the rings of the Verum1 worsens the sound. Also they are very open although the cup grills look a bit more like close ones.

Spoiler: Moondrop Para discussion.

wow thank you. you have posted very detailed and information full feedback on the Para.
it's very helpful to know the exact impedance and the difference in the sound from the two different pads included.

you mentioned Para may not be suitable for people who like a smooth balanced sound. that interests me because I actually do prefer a smoother representation, in terms of balanced sound I can usually achieve that with DSP (equalizer). I wonder then, if the Para will be suitable for pairing with a hybrid tube amplifier. I have found one which is within my budget and available locally, the Aune Flamingo DAC/Amp. the only thing I am not 100% sure about yet is whether 300mW@32ohms is enough power for the 8.5ohm Para. but judging by Questyle M15's output of 72mW@32ohms on 4.4 balanced (posted here on headfi) the Aune Flamingo might be powerful enough?

also for any other users, please let me know if going down the hybrid tube road is considered a dumb purchase. I know a lot of objective users will claim there is no positive benefit to tube amplification compared to solid state, but I am open to hearing all opinions.

 

[IamInnocentX3]

you mentioned Para may not be suitable for people who like a smooth balanced sound. that interests me because I actually do prefer a smoother representation, in terms of balanced sound I can usually achieve that with DSP (equalizer). I wonder then, if the Para will be suitable for pairing with a hybrid tube amplifier. I have found one which is within my budget and available locally, the Aune Flamingo DAC/Amp. the only thing I am not 100% sure about yet is whether 300mW@32ohms is enough power for the 8.5ohm Para. but judging by Questyle M15's output of 72mW@32ohms on 4.4 balanced (posted here on headfi) the Aune Flamingo might be powerful enough?

also for any other users, please let me know if going down the hybrid tube road is considered a dumb purchase. I know a lot of objective users will claim there is no positive benefit to tube amplification compared to solid state, but I am open to hearing all opinions.

Verum 1 Mk2 might be an option for smoother presentation. They are a pair of planars with remarkable sound, easier to drive too. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/verum-1-mk-2-mini-review.956759/



The Sunniva would also be nice if you want a smooth presentation, only that it is an earbud; stock foams gave a warmer presentation, but the Neutral foams more of a neutral tuning with more prominent treble. A dongle is enough to power it.

 

[TheFritz]

wow thank you. you have posted very detailed and information full feedback on the Para.
it's very helpful to know the exact impedance and the difference in the sound from the two different pads included.

you mentioned Para may not be suitable for people who like a smooth balanced sound. that interests me because I actually do prefer a smoother representation, in terms of balanced sound I can usually achieve that with DSP (equalizer). I wonder then, if the Para will be suitable for pairing with a hybrid tube amplifier. I have found one which is within my budget and available locally, the Aune Flamingo DAC/Amp. the only thing I am not 100% sure about yet is whether 300mW@32ohms is enough power for the 8.5ohm Para. but judging by Questyle M15's output of 72mW@32ohms on 4.4 balanced (posted here on headfi) the Aune Flamingo might be powerful enough?

also for any other users, please let me know if going down the hybrid tube road is considered a dumb purchase. I know a lot of objective users will claim there is no positive benefit to tube amplification compared to solid state, but I am open to hearing all opinions.

You do not directly see it in the frequency response but the PARA is indeed quite bright and even a bit fatiguing in the heights... and I am already some decades old. On the other hand, it is relatively detailed and shows good instrument separation. Also the imaging/staging in the higher registers is not bad.

Usually Tube-Amps are an obvious route to add some warmth and spacey reverb. I do have "real" Tube amps like the DarkVoice 336se and a Little-dot one but of course their high output impedances in the 100 Ohm range inhibit the use of such a low Ohm headphone (and BTW resistance is not equal impedance but for the planars it is close enough). I guess you are well aware of that and that's why you ask for the hybrid amps.
I am just listening to it on my Xduoo MT-604 (balanced) hybrid tube to try to answer your question - it is working quite well but not really "tubey" and I do prefer it on solid state amps. That might be due to me "accepting" its specific characteristics ... I do not really need an other everyday headphone for relaxed listening.

I don't really know the flamingo - only very briefly heard it at the Munich High-End but it sounded very nice and I heard good things about it. I guess the driving power should be sufficient. But please do not simply use the spec numbers of the Questyle M15 as single starting point; its CMA (Current Mode Amplification) SiP-Moduls are particular well suited to drive the low Ohm planars.

As alternatives the Verum 1 mk2 as suggested above is indeed a really good planar at a very good price which might suit your preferences better - but I waited about 4 Months for mine to arrive (totally worth it).

 

[pecotunkA]

Verum 1 Mk2 might be an option for smoother presentation. They are a pair of planars with remarkable sound, easier to drive too. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/verum-1-mk-2-mini-review.956759/



The Sunniva would also be nice if you want a smooth presentation, only that it is an earbud; stock foams gave a warmer presentation, but the Neutral foams more of a neutral tuning with more prominent treble. A dongle is enough to power it.

Spoiler: Moondrop Para discussion.

thanks for the suggestion. I will look into it.
my general thoughts are though that it’s easier to soften brightness (to achieve smoothness and spaciousness) than it is to add detail to something originally with lots of smoothness. And softening that brightness either through hybrid tube amps or EQ, I like the idea of having that level of detail first (kind of the initial reason I got interested in planars in the first place) and then having the ability to refine the sound by subtracting (not in a bad way, in this case adding softness and spaciousness).

 

[pecotunkA]

I guess you are well aware of that and that's why you ask for the hybrid amps.

Spoiler: Moondrop Para discussion.

yes you are correct. I checked output impedance for the Flamingo before considering it. I tried to search for the official spec again to confirm but couldn’t confirm at the moment on my phone.
From memory Flamingo output impedance in OP amp+Tube mode was 0.1ohm, and Tube mode was 1.1ohm. Both should technically be fine with Para but I intend to use OP amp+Tube mode to retain some detail in the sound.
Interestingly Aune also has some attractive Class A headphone amplifier/DAC amp units, but their output impedances are extremely high at around 11ohms. Completely unsuitable for Para.
Flamingo however has a regular low output impedance.

The downsides I am seeing in the Flamingo unit so far are:
1. Not easily replaceable tube.
2. Entire unit runs quite hot, apparently even hot for tube standards (probably due to tube location and design).
3. The volume control is not exactly great with all the power (gain) being in the top 20 out of 100 steps, and therefore each of the final top volume steps being quite large in jumps. Making fine volume control at higher power levels difficult.

Also yes I read about that CMA modules in the Questyle M15. To be honest I have no knowledge about it and its benefits. Forgive my ignorance.
I will also look into the Verum.

Edit: perhaps the brightness/harshness is coming from that considerably large 17k~18k peak which shows up in Moondrops own measurement. And I think I can still see it in your miniDSP measurements, although appearing much less in size.
The other 8K peak in your measurement also stands out and could be making things harsh. Personally I would use PEQ to reduce it.

Please update me with any thoughts regarding listening to Para via hybrid tube amplification if you have any further conclusions from extended listening. Thank you again.

 

[mrjayviper]

Any chance of a separate thread on the para so people looking for Venus info don’t get confused? Thanks

 

[pecotunkA]

Any chance of a separate thread on the para so people looking for Venus info don’t get confused? Thanks

I apologize. I was actually very conscious of this (going too far off topic) in my first few days since joining headfi. but I admit I completely forgot this was the Venus thread.
I will try to edit my previous comments to "hide" Para discussion.

 

[wmedrz]

Very good headphones.
I purchased the Mod House pads that Z-Reviews recommended and its a win.

I just got these pads. Did you have to modify them at all so they would fit the Venus? The backing material protrudes out quite a bit more than the original and it's hard to slip then on.