Montreal meet impressions - 17/08/08
Aug 18, 2008 at 2:26 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

gp_hebert

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Thanks again to Philippe (papomaster) for hosting this excellent meet. I had a great time listening to all of the headphone setups and sharing knowledge and opinions with the other guys. The atmosphere was even friendlier than our last meet and I think we have a good future as a headphone community here in Montreal.

I'm not too good at "speaking audio", but I'll do my best writing some short impressions from the setups with which I had the chance to spend quality time. These were based on short-term listening in a crowded room with people talking so take it with a grain of salt.

Laptop -> Nuforce Icon -> Stax SRD-6 -> Stax SR-Gamma

I thought this was a nice setup and something that I could totally live with if I was on a tight budget. It sounded very musical with an overall balanced presentation. The highs were slightly rolled off and a little bit too aggressive sometimes and the bass was bloomy and not as focused and extended as I'd like. The subpar source surely played a part in that, but I didn't have a chance to swap with anything else to compare. Still, the setup did very little wrong for the price as long as you're not looking for a super-detailed be-all-end-all headphone. At the end of the meet, we plugged briefly the Gammas in my SRM-T1S and there was quite an improvement in dynamics and punch compared to the Nuforce/SRD-6 setup.

Audio Research CD3 -> Singlepower MPX3 Slam -> Sennheiser HD650

This was a killer setup, in fact one of the two best setups I have heard. It handled jazz with such finesse and strength at the same time and there were very little flaws that I could hear. The first thing that striked me is how life-like the bass presentation was. Tight, fast, pitch black between notes. Compared to my short audition with the Apache at the beginning of the meet, the SP amp really bringed the HD650 to another level. There was certainly no veil, muddiness, boominess or any characteristic that people sometime associate with HD650 powered by cheap amplification. Sure, it lacked the last ounce of speed that I get with electrostatics, but at the same time, it brings the slight punch or slam that my OII lacks.

Shanling CD-T100 -> Antique SoundLabs HB1 -> Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000

I enjoyed the short time that I spent with these, but it's not a headphone that I'd like to own myself, at least with the amplification that I heard. The sound was very fast, detailed, quite aggressive, but also quite thin and cold. My ears are probably flawed by the OII warmer presentation, but the AD2000 sounded a little bit too harsh for me, particularly in the treble region. Also, the bass lacked some roundness, it was too "in-your-face" for my tastes. With that said, I think these headphones have a good potential and could be excellent when paired with a very warm amp.

RSA Predator -> Modded Denon D5000

I didn't like this setup at all. First and foremost, I couldn't get past the bass presentation. Call it club bass, car subwoofer bass or whatever you want, but this is definitely not audiophile-quality bass. At the price they sell these phones and considering the fact that some people think they are R10 killers, I was expecting way more. No matter what kind of music I put on them, there was some sort of punchy attack on every bass note even when it's not supposed to be. Also, the treble was a little bit too aggressive and piercing for my tastes and the midrange was nothing special. I also tried plugging the D5000 in the X-Meridian and I thought it sounded better than with the Predator. The bass was tamed a little bit and sounded more natural and everything was smoothed out. Overall, it was much more enjoyable, but it's still not my flavor of headphones. I didn't have time to compare to the non-modded D5000 though, but I think a couple of people did that so maybe they'll share some impressions.

Apogee Duet -> Grado SR-100 w/HP1000 drivers

This setup was surprising to say the least. I don't know how good the amp section is in the Duet because I usually use it only as a DAC, but the results were good with the SR-100. I had tried these during the meet in Julien's SOHA setup with the Shanling source, but I was not happy with what I heard. I decided to plug them in the Duet just for fun and it happened to be a very decent setup. The presentation was balanced with the typical roll-off of the extremes characteristic of the HP1000. One complaint though is that the bass was slightly too thick and blended with the midrange so it lacked some cleanness, but it was really enjoyable.

Audio Research CD3 -> HeadAmp KGSS DX -> Stax Omega II

Holy ****, this is the new sound I'll be seeking in the future. Now I see why people say that the OII scale well with good sources. The Duet, compared to this, makes the OII sound relax, lifeless and almost sloppy. With the CD3, the bass was tight, punchy, and extremely fast. The mids and the highs were very smooth, but with plenty of life and drive. This setup IMO, was the best thing we tried at the meet and the best sound that I've ever heard from headphones. If only I found 6000$ on the street.
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Aug 18, 2008 at 3:30 PM Post #3 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by gp_hebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If only I found 6000$ on the street.
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Or a bit less...(EDIT: seems an perenial truth: ''You get what you pay for'')

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....lay&1223521816


Alors ces photos c'est pour quand???
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Amicalement

EDIT: that was fast!!!!!!
 
Aug 18, 2008 at 3:48 PM Post #5 of 20
The blue shirt is FixeAxe, ... (can someone help me to identify ... will modify msg later! :xf_cool: ) .. I told you, I don't remember names! :xf_cool:
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The NuForce + Stax Gamma
Was a nice setup. But don't had a chance to heard it with a good source. Laptop as source is not very exciting in term of dynamic, impact, details. Was a relax listening session.
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LittleDot II++ (god this thing got very hot!) and the cd player eastsound CD-E3 (very nice setup!) I like it a lot. To my taste, I bit too much highs. This littledot give more bass to my MPX3! If I had this setup, I will try somes tubes rolling to try to tamed the highs a bit.
With the BeyerDT880 recabled with cardas ... I like it a lot. Smooth, flat frequecy response, I prefer them to DT990. DT990 gave too much "excitement" in the highs and bass ... was not a good match with that.
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Another LittleDot III this one had a perfect sonority in the all frequency range for my taste. HD650 + Equinox + LDIII .. humm it's very very nice.
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Stax Omega II + KGSS :

My first listening was dissapointing ... unangaging. The Apogee Duet was the problem.
With CD3 as source, it's another story. Bring back live and excitement, bass ...

It's my second preferred setup (I still prefer hd650+MPX3) but O2 match it. In fact, I think I definetively prefer tubes sonority because I am a "vocal head". I don't mind a lot on the "bass section". The most important for me is the richness in the vocal section. I think I prefer "dynamic" headphone to "electrostatic".

For sure, I will enjoy listen again this beast for prolonged session ... it's difficult to know in 10 min ... :xf_cool: It's close enough to change mind for the position of the winner but will require for me more time to listen and more calm environnement to be able to judge the depth of soundstage and details.
 
Aug 18, 2008 at 3:52 PM Post #6 of 20
Wow I loved this meet!

I did not swap gear around much so I'll review like gp, so by setup.

Audio Research CD3 -> Singlepower MPX3 Slam -> Sennheiser HD650

I really liked this setup, I thought it had a good overall strength compared to the same setup with the apache. It was more lively to my ears and had better musical representation. Surely the CD3 helped bring out the real audio characteristics of both the MPX3 and the HD650's.

Shanling CD-T100 -> Antique SoundLabs HB1 -> Audio-Technica ATH-AD2000

I can see why people like audio-technica, but it is just not my thing. They sound great at what they do, the setup was really good. The CD player was a great buy and the HB1 sounded almost as good as the MPX3. But he AD2000 are a colder and thinner representation than I like to have. On the other hand they had good bass texture.

Zhaolu 4.0 with 1/4" output -> Modded Denon D5000

Two words, bass monster. Not too fond of a overpowering bass, the bass isn't crap like car audio you hear, it's in fact just too omnipresent with respect to the other frequencies, thus I quickly put them down.

Zhaolu 4.0 with 1/4" output -> Denon D5000

The representation on this headphone was good, I quite liked them although they lacked bass a little. Hence probably why people mod them for more (too much) bass. I think I would like the D5000's to be 25% from the original to the modded.

Laptop -> Apogee duet -> HeadAmp KGSS DX -> Stax Omega II

I really loved this setup, it really has the kick and the tonal balance right to me. It's comfortable, lively without being harsh, I don't really know how to explain the sound, but this is what I'm looking for.

We changed source to the CD3 and somehow, suddenly, these became even better. *mystic reference to biblical creatures*. In other words, it's simply an amazing setup and would be what I consider enough for me although I would prefer for convenience to have a digital source.



Overall for me this has brought a few observations that I knew were true, but that I simply didn't pay enough attentions to. Sound signature is really important, I could grab the best headphone of a sound signature I'm not too fond of, but then prefer one not as good of a sound signature that I prefer. So far HP-1000 and O2's really got it right with me in terms of sound.

Secondly, but certainly not least, source is IMPORTANT. I consider source and material as one as a CDP you will just put CD's in but with a DAC you need properly encoded material. For example we did not have an amazing DAC at the meet and I'd really like to try and compare a good CDP with a good DAC.

More to come with comments and responses.
 
Aug 18, 2008 at 3:53 PM Post #7 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by Genetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Or a bit less...
AudiogoN ForSale: Audio Research Cd3 Black Reference Mint
EDIT: that was fast!!!!!!



Attention, c'est juste la version CD3 originale .. moi c'était la MK2 (la dernière).

La version originale n'est pas aussi bonne. Personnellement, je ne l'acheterais pas à moins de pouvoir le comparer avec la version II. À 2500$ pas trop de "guess" à faire. Il y a bien d'autres bons lecteurs CD ... à titre d'exemple, Anthem, Musical Fidelity A3.2 ca ne sonnait pas beaucoup moins bien que mon CD3MK2 lorsque j'ai comparé chez un copain et ca coûte moins de 2000$.

Un lecteur CD trop vieux, ce n'est pas un très bon achat. À ce prix, je tenterais ma chance vers un DAC comme le ARC DAC7 qui vient de sortir et qui est sensé être mieux que le CD3MK2.

Il écoute sa musique à partir de son ordinateur d'après ce que j'ai pu voir au meet.
 
Aug 18, 2008 at 3:58 PM Post #8 of 20
Quote:

Hence probably why people mod them for more (too much) bass.


Other way around, mods control and tighten the sloppy stock bass and reduce vibration-induced bass headaches. There definitely shouldn't be "more" bass post mods. Cheers.
 
Aug 18, 2008 at 4:05 PM Post #9 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by pompon /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Attention, c'est juste la version CD3 originale .. moi c'était la MK2 (la dernière).


Mes excuses les plus sincères...
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Mais puisqu'il écoute sa musique à partir d'un PC alors là le choix d'un bon DAC devrait être sa prochaine ''obsession''....
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Amicalement

PS

Il semble que finalement, après tous ces rebondissements, vous y êtes finalement parvenus à tenir cette rencontre.....
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Aug 18, 2008 at 5:16 PM Post #11 of 20
Yes was a good meet. Papo's parents was very cool to permit all those peaple to take assault their kitchen!!

Peaple was very nice and we was pretty tight (in space)... was difficult to take a good photos with all this mess.

For the D5000, I think most of the peaple have preferred the stock version because they give more bass.

Setups was all different .. it's very interesting to hear different thing and be able to compare more expansive to less expansive.

NExt time, will be interesting to try more match.

For sure, I will let my VD cables at home .. too much trouble to install them and when we want move setup, cable don't follow! 8-/

Somes peaple don't had a chance to hear the Apache and HD650 single end vs balanced. I uninstall it at the middle of the day to permit me to install my mpx3. (we don't had the space to have them both installed at same time).

ATH-D2000, I listening them on X-Meridian. They not bad but nothing really impressed me. Was ok headphone.

Grados HP1000. I like them. Very neutral, average bass (I am not a bass head, so was ok for me) and non fatiguing highs. Vocals was good.
But In terms of "space" they not as spacious as the HD650. When we have a signer, he very close to my ears ... a bit too close. But I think, it's worth the listening and very glad to heard them. Will probably fun to try them on different amp ... I tried them on my mpx3.

Peaple don't had occasion to really test what I told them .. the soundcard almost match my CD3 cd player. I think peaple was not in mind to listen a computer ... with all the gear we had and the combinaisons to do was not the right moment for that.
 
Aug 19, 2008 at 2:38 AM Post #13 of 20
Great meet! You guys were really nice, and even though it ended a bit later than I told my parents (10 pm), they didn't say a word since everything went very smoothly.

To start with, let me say that I heard some SERIOUS bass coming out of most of the setups we had. Let's just sum it up : HD650, D5000, O2, M5000. And we had three very powerful amps to say the least : MPX3-Slam, Apache and KGSS. And since we were confined in a single room except for the O2 setup, we had to put the music slightly higher than usual, so that brought some heavy headbanging bass for sure
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.

Just short impressions, I'll give some (very) detailed impressions later.

Hd650: Mellow, smooth, detailed, slightly constricted soundstage, dark.

O2: Mostly like the 650, but wider soundstage, a bit harsher.

D5000: Powerful but rude, peaky highs.

Sr100 - HP1000 : Neutral but veiled mids, not agile enough for my tastes.

KGSS + O2 : MEGAPOWERFUL bass, great detail and separation.

AKG 240 sextett : sweet and refined, great mids but reserved presentation. To be enjoyed with wine.

Stax Gamma : Powerful, but not really detailed.

MPX3 : Was really hard to distinguish from my ASL HB1, using the same source, phones and cables.

Apache: wide, strong, detailed. Not overly textured though.

X-Meridian : strange soundstage (Shaped like a wall: no depth, but sounds were separated up and down), but good detail and frequency response for the price. EXCESSIVELY GOOD BUY. The best bargain we had, with the Nuforce Icon and my HB1, in my opinion.

SOHA w/ jisbos : Had some static, but I found it a bit unrealistic with tones, and it blurred everything at some point.

More to come soon.
 
Aug 19, 2008 at 1:56 PM Post #14 of 20
Looks sweet!
Some electrostatics as well...
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Aug 19, 2008 at 2:27 PM Post #15 of 20
Quote:

Originally Posted by krmathis /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Some electrostatics as well...
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I'm happy to have heard the Gammas, it just confirmed my assumption that even the lower-priced Stax are at least as good or better for me than most mid-priced dynamics. I actually preferred the Gamma setup by a good margin to the DT990 and D5000.
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