[mixman]

Or you could concentrate on finding DACs with better synergy with the amps you are trying. You can keep chasing for the next level up in amps and never find it because you're ignoring DAC synergy. Meanwhile you've churned through amps that would be exceptional if you'd only explored finding DACs that have better synergy.

The RME ADI-2 and iFi DACs are not DACs I consider to have good synergy with the better Cavalli amps. Explore. For me the Cavalli Liquid Platinum + Schiit multibit + Audeze LCD-2 or better is excellent system synergy. Change the DAC and it is very easy to lose that synergy. There are, of course, other DACs that will have great synergy with the Cavalli amps. The challenge is in finding them.

I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.

Then good luck in your quest. You're going to churn through more amps and more money without finding nirvana. Some people just don't want advice. You're a reason I rarely post at Head-fi. I had a ton of posts here before head-fi switched forum software. Head-fi was better back then.

I've been doing Cavalli amps for over a decade. And have optimized my system around the sound of Cavalli amps. I have some experience in what pairs well with Cavalli amps and what doesn't. I own a Fire, Glass, and Platinum, and Carbon, and all the Massdrop Cavalli amps and will be buying the Monoprice Liquid Gold X. My one regret is that I didn't buy a Crimson. I've been around people who have built the Cavalli DIY amps and have been able to listen to some of those amps.

When I got interested in the Liquid Fire I got some good advice from those who owned it. They all said I was going to need to try several different DACs to find one that works well. All of those people had gone through several different DACs to find something that had the right synergy for their preferences with the Liquid Fire. I got to hear the Liquid Fire at meets with various DACs. Some of those setups had the synergy I was after, some did not. All of those were expensive DACs. The best setup that I liked back then was with a Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Series 2. That was before Schiit released the Yggdrasil. Now that Schiit has the Yggdrasil and Gungnir MB, I like the Schiit multibit DACs better. And they're much less expensive than the Berkeley. But even with all that advice that I got, and advice that I took to heart, I still ended up churning through several expensive DACs on the way to discovering what I personally liked and found synergy with for the Cavalli amps.

The better Cavalli amps are fussy about source because the amps are transparent to the source. Fussy about DAC sound qualities and synergy. That's not just true for Cavalli amps, but other summit-fi level amps as well. To reach summit-fi you need to pair the sound qualities of the amp with the sound qualities of the DAC. And find synergy. If you expect to throw any "good" DAC with any "good" amp and find nirvana you're in for disappointment and constant churn of expensive gear. That's advice from someone who has been around the head-fi block a few times.

Since you claim to be after accurate detail I would suggest a HeadAmp GS-X and an Oppo and HD800 headphones. HeadAmp used that setup to demo their gear at a meet I attended. I think that's the system you would like and deserve. It very much isn't a Cavalli style of sound.

For everyone else. My suggested system for Cavalli Liquid Platinum synergy would be: Cavalli Liquid Platinum amp, as much Schiit multibit as you can afford, and an Audeze LCD-2 Classic or one of the better Audeze LCD series headphones. The synergy with the better Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Platinum, and probably the Gold X) and the Audeze LCD series headphones is something to behold. I bought my original LCD-2 r2 because of its synergy with the Liquid Fire. I bought the Liquid Fire because of its synergy with the LCD-2 of that era. The more modern LCD series headphones have just gotten better and have even better synergy with the better Cavalli amps. After you have that you can explore other headphones and other DACs. A Liquid Platinum + Schiit Bifrost 2 + LCD-2 Classic would have been summit-fi back in 2010. And all for about $2450 total (need balanced headphone cables with the LP).

 

[Wes S]

Then good luck in your quest. You're going to churn through more amps and more money without finding nirvana. Some people just don't want advice. You're a reason I rarely post at Head-fi. I had a ton of posts here before head-fi switched forum software. Head-fi was better back then.

I've been doing Cavalli amps for over a decade. And have optimized my system around the sound of Cavalli amps. I have some experience in what pairs well with Cavalli amps and what doesn't. I own a Fire, Glass, and Platinum, and Carbon, and all the Massdrop Cavalli amps and will be buying the Monoprice Liquid Gold X. My one regret is that I didn't buy a Crimson. I've been around people who have built the Cavalli DIY amps and have been able to listen to some of those amps.

When I got interested in the Liquid Fire I got some good advice from those who owned it. They all said I was going to need to try several different DACs to find one that works well. All of those people had gone through several different DACs to find something that had the right synergy for their preferences with the Liquid Fire. I got to hear the Liquid Fire at meets with various DACs. Some of those setups had the synergy I was after, some did not. All of those were expensive DACs. The best setup that I liked back then was with a Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC Series 2. That was before Schiit released the Yggdrasil. Now that Schiit has the Yggdrasil and Gungnir MB, I like the Schiit multibit DACs better. And they're much less expensive than the Berkeley. But even with all that advice that I got, and advice that I took to heart, I still ended up churning through several expensive DACs on the way to discovering what I personally liked and found synergy with for the Cavalli amps.

The better Cavalli amps are fussy about source because the amps are transparent to the source. Fussy about DAC sound qualities and synergy. That's not just true for Cavalli amps, but other summit-fi level amps as well. To reach summit-fi you need to pair the sound qualities of the amp with the sound qualities of the DAC. And find synergy. If you expect to throw any "good" DAC with any "good" amp and find nirvana you're in for disappointment and constant churn of expensive gear. That's advice from someone who has been around the head-fi block a few times.

Since you claim to be after accurate detail I would suggest a HeadAmp GS-X and an Oppo and HD800 headphones. HeadAmp used that setup to demo their gear at a meet I attended. I think that's the system you would like and deserve. It very much isn't a Cavalli style of sound.

For everyone else. My suggested system for Cavalli Liquid Platinum synergy would be: Cavalli Liquid Platinum amp, as much Schiit multibit as you can afford, and an Audeze LCD-2 Classic or one of the better Audeze LCD series headphones. The synergy with the better Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Platinum, and probably the Gold X) and the Audeze LCD series headphones is something to behold. I bought my original LCD-2 r2 because of its synergy with the Liquid Fire. I bought the Liquid Fire because of its synergy with the LCD-2 of that era. The more modern LCD series headphones have just gotten better and have even better synergy with the better Cavalli amps. After you have that you can explore other headphones and other DACs. A Liquid Platinum + Schiit Bifrost 2 + LCD-2 Classic would have been summit-fi back in 2010. And all for about $2450 total (need balanced headphone cables with the LP).

I am a big Cavalli fan myself, and the Schiit Gungnir Multibit in balanced configuration, is a match made in heaven with the LP and my ZMF cans. The sound is very organic/natural or "real" sounding, with good punch. I am using Holland made Bugle Boy d getter 6dj8 tubes, from 1958.

 

[Odin412]

For everyone else. My suggested system for Cavalli Liquid Platinum synergy would be: Cavalli Liquid Platinum amp, as much Schiit multibit as you can afford, and an Audeze LCD-2 Classic or one of the better Audeze LCD series headphones. The synergy with the better Cavalli amps (Fire, Crimson, Glass, Platinum, and probably the Gold X) and the Audeze LCD series headphones is something to behold.

I quite agree. I listened to the Bifrost Multibit - Liquid Platinum - LCD-2 combo yesterday and it sounded fabulous. The trademark Cavalli liquid midrange is something to really enjoy.

 

[Wes S]

I quite agree. I listened to the Bifrost Multibit - Liquid Platinum - LCD-2 combo yesterday and it sounded fabulous. The trademark Cavalli liquid midrange is something to really enjoy.

Liquid mids to die for!

 

[TK16]

I have now had a chance to directly compare the Liquid Platinum with the Mjolnir and let me just say that both amps are really good.
Each amp has it's particular qualities with the LP being somewhat more musical and laid-back, while the MJ is very resolved and detailed.
I used the same set of Brimar E88CC tubes to compare the amps.
For SE testing I used DT 1770 cans and for balanced output I used the Fostex TH900mk2 headphones.
I did not notice much difference between the SE and Balanced outputs in regards to the overall sound characteristics of either unit.

The LP is a little darker with great overall tonality. It has slightly more recessed mids. Full bass. Good impact. Very musical!

The MJ is perhaps a smidge brighter with slightly sharper details. It's a little more analytical than the LP, but it also has a very refined sound. It's a detail monster. Piano is absolutely sublime.

Now that I have experienced both, I prefer the sound of the Mjolnir over the LP, but only by a small margin. I think the Mjolnir and the Yggdrasil make a great pairing.

If I had to choose between one or the other I would pick the MJ2 over the LP owning both with the same tubes. I personally run balanced, I use the MJ2 as a preamp with the LP as amp. This helps with the volume control on the LP, more wiggle room adjusting. I chose this method so I would have 2 sets of tubes in the chain with the Gumby and 3 sets of tubes with my tube dac.

 

[funkle II]

A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?

 

[Odin412]

A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?

Based on your preferences above I think a Cavalli amp may be just what the doctor ordered. The Cavalli sound has a liquid midrange that's to die for IMHO and they are detailed without being harsh or grating. I'm a huge fan of Cavalli amps.

 

[LCMusicLover]

A question for LP owners: I’m intrigued by the descriptions of the Cavalli sound. I like a warm, vivacious sound signature with a no shortage of detail, mid-bass and dynamic impact. I listen mostly to modern fusion, which can get dense & busy in the mix, with many tracks competing for low-mid & mid territory - more about energy than soundstage/imaging. I’m pretty enamored with the Nighhawk/NightOwl for reference. I was ready to give a Cavalli a try, until I read a review that said the LP was best suited for airy, spacious, sparse music. Vocals, chamber, solo acoustic etc. Would this amp be worth a try based on my tastes, or perhaps veer towards the Gold or look elsewhere?

LP ==> AudioQuest (Hawk or Owl) will leave you down at the low end of the volume range, possibly into channel imbalance territory. That assumes your source is fairly hot (such as is typical of most current balanced DACs, i.e., ~4Vrms), and that you don’t attenuate between source and amp.

Also, depending on tubes, you might end up with ‘warm times warm’ with LP and those cans. Could lead to a perceived ‘shortage of detail’.

 

[funkle II]

LP ==> AudioQuest (Hawk or Owl) will leave you down at the low end of the volume range, possibly into channel imbalance territory. That assumes your source is fairly hot (such as is typical of most current balanced DACs, i.e., ~4Vrms), and that you don’t attenuate between source and amp.

Also, depending on tubes, you might end up with ‘warm times warm’ with LP and those cans. Could lead to a perceived ‘shortage of detail’.

Thanks, that makes sense about the double warm. I'm looking at planars and some of the ZMFs. I think those could be a better match, right? I wasn't aware of the volume sensitivity. Would it be possible to use the LP in conjunction with a preamp or a DAC with a volume control? Both of my DACs (Burson Swing and W4S 2v2) have volume.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Thanks, that makes sense about the double warm. I'm looking at planars and some of the ZMFs. I think those could be a better match, right? I wasn't aware of the volume sensitivity. Would it be possible to use the LP in conjunction with a preamp or a DAC with a volume control? Both of my DACs (Burson Swing and W4S 2v2) have volume.

Definitely you can use a pre-amp or attenuate volume on your DAC if that is supported (my Gumby doesn't). I use a passive pre-amp between my DACs and amps. Also, if you DAC attenuates its analog output, it's fine. But if it's doing digital attenuation, then you're throwing bits away when you turn down the volume, although many are of the opinion that they were inaudible anyway.

As far as tonality of the LP/AudioQ pairings, that's about 'your ears, my ears', but that would be too warm for me. In fact, I owned a set of NightOwl Carbon and found them too warm with any/all of my chains, so I'm probably not the right set of ears to advise you.

 

[funkle II]

But if it's doing digital attenuation, then you're throwing bits away when you turn down the volume, although many are of the opinion that they were inaudible anyway.

That used to be very much the case, but the newer in-chip attenuation is improved to the point that many of the manufacturers have abandoned stepped resister attenuation. Srajan over at 6moons (who I have looked to for many years now as my most trusted reviewer) concurred for both of my DACs, and I certainly cant hear any degradation.

I've been into hi-fi for a long time, but really just now getting into head-fi and greatly enjoying the experience of learning, experimenting and working my way up (rather than just going straight for the end-game)

I get the feeling that the AQ likes accurate components. Currently, I'm using a Burson SS amp. I have the THX 789 coming next week, and looking at Lake People. The LP & appropriate phones will come later after I digest the current stuff I've been amassing.

 

[bryceu]

I disagree. A better DAC is a better DAC period, meaning it will more accurately portray the source information. Now if you are telling me to get a better DAC, then yes the LP will sound better.....but so will the THX when paired with that better DAC. One may not like the tonal balance or synergy as you call it of that pairing but, I am not after a different "synergy" here. I am after accurate detail and for me the LP doesn't have it on the same level as the THX.

I think the RME ADI-2 DAC + THXAAA amp combo is one of the best you can get for accurate/exact/sharp detail. Definitely more crisp than both Mj2 or LP. Mj2 with LISST comes close to THX but still not as refined sounding. (Best in this price range)

 

[CreditingKarma]

I think the RME ADI-2 DAC + THXAAA amp combo is one of the best you can get for accurate/exact/sharp detail. Definitely more crisp than both Mj2 or LP. Mj2 with LISST comes close to THX but still not as refined sounding. (Best in this price range)

You could always save up and get Chord Hugo TT2. It is super transparent.

 

[bryceu]

Yea it looks like a nice solution, but a bit more than I want to bite off right now. Maybe one day.