[Wes S]

Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.

Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.

 

[mixman]

Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.

Ha, new to this whole headphone tube rolling thing. The only amps I had been used to rolling tubes on were my Mesa Boogies and Marshalls and that was to see which distorts the best, not which is more lush and detailed!!!

 

[ladavid]

I actually like this amp better using rcas between my dac and amp. Dac is an Exogal. Maybe I need better cabling as using Kimber Hero in balanced and quite honestly disappointing - dull and closed in sounding. Rcas comparing to are fairly inexpensive Dueland interconnects but bring back the light and dynamics to music.

Have been using balanced headphone cable - made a good upgrade over stock headphone cable (ZMF)

So what balanced cables work well for you?

 

[kdoof]

Seems strange to buy a tube amp, and then right it off, without rolling tubes, but that is just me.

I bet you don't bat an eye when people audition a pair of headphones with stock pads and can say they're not for them though, right? And pads are much cheaper than $80 tubes that may or may not remedy my particular problems with this amp.

Just because you like the amp and it works for you doesn't mean it has to for everyone.

 

[Wes S]

I bet you don't bat an eye when people audition a pair of headphones with stock pads and can say they're not for them though, righ t? And pads are much cheaper than $80 tubes that may or may not remedy my particular problems with this amp.

Just because you like the amp and it works for you doesn't mean it has to for everyone.

Actually the amp with stock tubes, did not work for me. My point is, a tube amp can be tweaked, with tubes, and I actually don't know anyone with a tube amp, that still use the stock tubes. Also, I don't bat an eye, when people don't like a particular headphone with stock pads, unless there is another set of pads made to be used with that particular headphone, like what ZMF does, with their suede and leather pads.

 

[LCMusicLover]

Hmm, maybe, but I won’t be dropping money on tubes since I’m probably not keeping this. I did turn it up a bit to listen to some black metal (the band Conjurer) and it still shared that relaxed quality. It’s not a volume thing really but an overall presentation thing.

Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.

I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass. I’ve got a DSHA-3F coming which I hope will be a great pairing.

That said, LP pairs really well with all my other cans, but tube swaps made large improvements over the stock tubes. For example, my Ether 2s are really special from LP/Siemens NOS tubes (CCa & E88CC) — headstage is so 3d. And LP really pairs well with headphones which have an energetic or brighter sound. For example, both my Utopia and Auteur love it. The more relaxed sound coupled with the detail retrieval and stage make those pairings sing. LP/Siemens NOS tubes finally stopped my feelings of angst over how much I spent on Utopia.

The gain thing can be a real pain. I use a balanced passive pre-amp. Gives me source switching, a remote control and output to 2 amps. I had been using an Emotiva active preamp, but found it colored the sound noticeably with the LP (which I hadn't noticed with my other amps). With the passive, I can set the LP volume to 12:00 and then attenuate the input to get the working volume I want.

You didn’t say much about how the LP paired with your different cans. I’m curious if you got anything positive when listening to the LP/HD-800 combo. Frankly, if that didn’t pique your interest at least a little, then you should probably forget it. I didn’t get really excited about LP/Utopia pairing until I swapped out the stock tubes, but I could tell the potential was there. I will say that I never really appreciated my HD-6xx until I paired them with LP (w/ Siemens NOS tubes). I mean, they were ‘fine’, but that’s it, nothing that special — LP let me know what all the fuss was about.

Bottom line for you, LP may never get to your sweet spot. As a tube/hybrid amp, tube rolling can move the sound in various ways, but won’t over-haul its basic character. And you can easily spend $100s ‘nudging' the sound this way or that — I should know

I notice you’re in the LA area, so perhaps you should consider a visit to the Schittery. Mjolnir 2 might be interesting if you want to try another tube/hybrid — I’ve heard a number of positive impressions regarding Lyr/Ori pairing. Jot is also said to be a great amp for them.

Cheers!

 

[nwavesailor]

Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.

I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass.

Have you tried any Telefunken ECC82 in the LP with your Empy's? I find it a very nice pairing. YMMV

 

[LCMusicLover]

No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.

 

[kdoof]

Having read your longer/detailed impressions (well-done BTW) and this post, I’d say you come to a fairly accurate (and fair) opinion of this amp.

I agree that the LP has a somewhat relaxed character. I’m finding it hard to pair with my Empyrean — they’re also relaxed and need more energy. The pairing actually pretty good with Brimar CV-2492s, but still somewhat behind Empy paired with my (former) SS amps Violectric V280 & Bryston BHA-1 — better stage from LP, but still a little relaxed with slightly wooly bass. I’ve got a DSHA-3F coming which I hope will be a great pairing.

That said, LP pairs really well with all my other cans, but tube swaps made large improvements over the stock tubes. For example, my Ether 2s are really special from LP/Siemens NOS tubes (CCa & E88CC) — headstage is so 3d. And LP really pairs well with headphones which have an energetic or brighter sound. For example, both my Utopia and Auteur love it. The more relaxed sound coupled with the detail retrieval and stage make those pairings sing. LP/Siemens NOS tubes finally stopped my feelings of angst over how much I spent on Utopia.

The gain thing can be a real pain. I use a balanced passive pre-amp. Gives me source switching, a remote control and output to 2 amps. I had been using an Emotiva active preamp, but found it colored the sound noticeably with the LP (which I hadn't noticed with my other amps). With the passive, I can set the LP volume to 12:00 and then attenuate the input to get the working volume I want.

You didn’t say much about how the LP paired with your different cans. I’m curious if you got anything positive when listening to the LP/HD-800 combo. Frankly, if that didn’t pique your interest at least a little, then you should probably forget it. I didn’t get really excited about LP/Utopia pairing until I swapped out the stock tubes, but I could tell the potential was there. I will say that I never really appreciated my HD-6xx until I paired them with LP (w/ Siemens NOS tubes). I mean, they were ‘fine’, but that’s it, nothing that special — LP let me know what all the fuss was about.

Bottom line for you, LP may never get to your sweet spot. As a tube/hybrid amp, tube rolling can move the sound in various ways, but won’t over-haul its basic character. And you can easily spend $100s ‘nudging' the sound this way or that — I should know

I notice you’re in the LA area, so perhaps you should consider a visit to the Schittery. Mjolnir 2 might be interesting if you want to try another tube/hybrid — I’ve heard a number of positive impressions regarding Lyr/Ori pairing. Jot is also said to be a great amp for them.

Cheers!

I do like the amp overall and really don't want the final impression to be that I don't -- just saying. But for $600 I'm not really willing to compromise on certain aspects of it, and the high gain/channel imbalance thing is kind of a dealbreaker for me. The laid-back-ness isn't necessarily but in my experience with the LCX is something that can really bug me after some time, it's like having an itch that you can scratch 90% away, but that 10% that doesn't get itched starts to drive you insane after a bit.

The HD800 pairs very well with the LP. The soundstage of the 800's very nicely compliments the LP's considerable imaging. It might be a perfect pairing for some who don't like the 800's treble presence, but which has never bothered me personally. I'd be interested to see if the 800S ends up being a poor pairing comparatively, as the LP's bass with the 800's just skirted being overly bloomy, and the 800S'es woolier low end may tip it into the other side of the line to where it's not so appealing, it could end up being kind of diffuse or one-note. But maybe tubes would ameliorate that anyway, and maybe burn-in makes it a non-issue, as I mentioned.

It's true I wasn't crazy about the pairing with my Ori's, as the bass was a bit much via those (which is why I'll be interested to see if tube burn-in mitigates the boominess at least somewhat.) It didn't do anything to damage detail retrieval as far as I could tell, but it did seem to add a kind of hazy aura around the low end of the Ori's. And as far as 600's/650's, I don't honestly feel comfortable giving a big thumbs-up or -down since I only have their single-ended cables, but I've heard much better from both headphones, from much less expensive (single-ended) amps. If I were to hazard a guess I'd imagine the balanced pairing with the 600's could be pretty special, easing up some of their shoutiness while reinforcing their low-end a tad. The 650's could be great or could end up mushy, along the lines of the hypothetical 800/800S comparison.

And oh yes, for fun I visit the Schiitr pretty often, and have listened to the Mjolnir/Gumby combo a number of times. It's really nice but I don't know if I'm crazy about the Schiit house sound from their amps, they all sound a little abrasive to my ear. I say this having used primarily an Asgard 2 for nearly a year now, and a Magni 3 before that, and with a 2-week stint with a friend's borrowed Jotunheim. I have never been really pleased by any of their hybrid-tube/tube offerings, they all sound oddly dry to me, to be honest.

 

[LCMusicLover]

...and the high gain/channel imbalance thing is kind of a dealbreaker for me...

I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.

I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.

BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.

 

[kdoof]

I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.

I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.

BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.

Yeah that’s the thing too. If I ever upgraded from my 2V Bimby to something 4V I’d be boned and basically absolutely have to attenuate the signal somehow.

 

[mixman]

I don't think I would own this amp without my preamp to attenuate. None of my cans play above 10:00 - 10:30ish without attenuation, and I hit channel imbalance with my Utopia when I listen quietly.

I should point out that both my DACs are balanced w/ 4Vrms output.

BTW, others have commented that LP's SE output is inferior.

Good thing I can use my RME to do some attenuating. The lack of gain isn’t a problem for me, since I usually run my THX at full gain anyway.

 

[nwavesailor]

No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.

"What could possibly go wrong!"
I do understand not wanting to damage your amp but the many 12AU7 options are, IMO ,so much better than all the 6DJ8, 6922 and 7308's I have tried. I have not tried, nor do I own, any of the CCA versions. The LP is a pretty inexpensive amp so it's not like you are risking damage to a multi thosand $$$ piece of gear. There are many on the Lyr thread who have used ECC82 / 12AU7's or WE 2C51 for many months w/o issue. Heck, with the new lower cost of the LP on Amazon even if you did damage the amp it wouldn't be more than the cost of a pair or 2 of CCA's to buy a new one.

If you tried the Telefunken 12AU7/ECC82 in the LP with the Empy's, you would not find it "relaxed and needing more energy"

LCMusicLover, your posts are one of the main reasons I spent the $ on the Empy's and I am glad I did! Like you, I also have the E2 but they get very little use now that I have the Empy's.

I think I've twisted your arm enough..............

 

[LCMusicLover]

...LCMusicLover, your posts are one of the main reasons I spent the $ on the Empy's and I am glad I did!...

Not my fault man, quit trying to pin that on me!

...I think I've twisted your arm enough..............

No, I'm sticking with 'exact equivalent' tubes per @runeight advice.

 

[nwavesailor]

Not my fault man, quit trying to pin that on me!

LCML, I am THRILLED with the Empy's!!! Just take a little credit for pointing me in that direction..................