Monoprice Monolith Liquid Platinum - By Alex Cavalli
May 23, 2020 at 2:50 PM Post #2,806 of 5,150
I would jump on the LP and Bifrost 2.


So, to you, it's a worthwhile combo? A nice contrast?

I have a nice tube amp that I love and the LP is the first hybrid amp I ever loved. I am thinking that I need to upgrade the SS amp and then just get the BF2 down the road.

I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking. SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others). The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo. As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.

I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.

By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.
 
May 23, 2020 at 3:00 PM Post #2,807 of 5,150
I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking. SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others). The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo. As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.

I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.

By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.

That V280 looks good, but that would be over $2K landed in Canada. I am actually looking at a used V220. I was thinking about making this my go-to SE amp and my LP being the go-to balanced amp.

I am currently running an SMSL SU-8 DAC but do plan on getting a Bifrost 2 at some point this year.

Thanks for the feedback.
 
May 23, 2020 at 6:32 PM Post #2,808 of 5,150
I greatly enjoy the options that the V281 and the LP provide for me, if that is what you're asking. SQ-wise, they're both excellent although they bring slightly different flavors to my cans (Audeze LCD-4, i4, and X ; Hifiman HeKse, He 500, and Sennheiser HD800, among others). The V28i is magnificent for its build, durability and versatility in connectivity as an SS HP-Amp, and Pre-amp combo. As a hybrid amp, the LP offers even more versatility in flavors, if tube rolling is your thing.

I do not know whether you're asking about the V280, which is currently on Massdrop, but if I did not already have the V281, I'd be all over the V280. That is what my experience of the V281 as a Solid State has taught me.

By the way, DACs count too : My V281 is fed by the Yggy A2, and the LP by a Metrum Onyx.
Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?
 
May 23, 2020 at 6:55 PM Post #2,809 of 5,150
Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?

Besides the HUGE price difference...
 
May 23, 2020 at 7:25 PM Post #2,810 of 5,150
Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?
<butting in>
I own LP, owned V280. Both are fine amps. Kept the LP, sold V280 (and Bryston BHA-1) and purchased a DSHA-3F. But, honestly, differences between the SS amps were pretty small. The thing about ‘...strictly in SQ terms...’ is ‘...with which tubes, paired with which cans?’

For example, paired w/ Empyrean, I would prefer any of my SS amps to LP with any tubes. Conversely, I preferred my Ether 2 from LP w/ Siemens tubes vs E2 paired w/ V280 or BHA-1. LP vs 3F ==> E2 is close to even. HD-6xx from LP over V280 or BHA-1 as well, slightly prefer 3F ==> HD-6xx over LP pairing, but it’s surprisingly close.

LP ==> Utopia beats V280 ==> Utopia. LP pairing sacrifices a little detail, but takes a bit of the ‘edge’ off and adds musicality, and, with the right tubes, can beef up the bottom end.

Auteur is a chameleon, which changes character with amp or tube swaps. Changes the most of any of my cans with tube swaps in the LP. But there’s really no favorite as it’s like seeing your girl in a new dress :)

I didn’t own HEKse w/ V280 or BHA-1, but can compare amps driving HEKv2. LP w/ Siemens tubes makes HEKv2 a little warmer w/ less ‘delicate’ sound and a bit more bass slam. LP w/ Brimar CV-2492 tubes doesn’t change tonality much, but opens the headstage up, adds air to a already airy stage. V280 a bit in the middle — slightly warms up tonality, slightly opens stage. Sound changes from v2 & SE w/ tube swaps in LP are second most significant after Auteur.
 
May 23, 2020 at 9:43 PM Post #2,811 of 5,150
Ok Sahmen, I am going to press you. LOL. Strictly in SQ terms which would you choose....the V281 or the LP and why?

Ahh... That's not so hard to answer, although, as usual, the road to an answer can get really complicated. When I first got the LP, it sounded great, right out of the box, but the V281 seemed to sound superior, at least for some songs, and with some of my HPs.... Sometimes, it seemed to be performing on the same level as the v281, but at other times, the v281 seem to demonstrate a certain technical superiority, in terms of the width and depth of the soundstage, as well as in other aspects such as air, detail retrieval, separation of instruments, and bass/treble extension.

But here is the first complicating factor is: I have still not been able to ascertain how much if these differences to attribute to the DACs attached to each of these amps (The Yggy A2 feeding the V281, and the Metrum Onyx feeding the LP) and how much to attribute to the amps themselves

I agree that it would probably have taken just a bit of experimentation, swapping things around, and a couple of head to head listening shoot outs in order to nail down with more precision what exact sonic qualities to attribute to each amp and DAC in the system, and also to find out how amp/dac permutations would sound like. I regret to say that I have not done any such permutations or experimentations, in spite of my genuine curiosity about such differences. The reason? : Sometimes I think it is because I am too lazy to bother with them, but it is probably also because, I am not the kind to fuss too much with equipment, or mess with experimentations when the preliminary setups or configurations sound acceptably fine to my ears, and I have always been pleased with the way these two systems sound.

Here's another complicating factor : with time, the LP + Metrum Onyx combo seem to have bridged the performance gap I initially perceived between it and the Yggy A2/V281 combo, on the level of technical properties such as soundstage width, depth, imaging, air etc. etc. I have wondered what has caused this bridging of the gap: was that due to the effects of burn-in (since both the LP and the Onyx are relatively new and later acquisitions as compared to both the Yggy and the V281?), or simple psychoacoustic adjustments? It was probaly a little bit of both, but what I can say is that the differences I perceived initially regarding those technical attributes have all but disappeared, and the LP/Onyx can sound as open and as airy as the v281/Yggy combo. If there is any difference left, it has to reside in tonalities, but on the level, I like them both equally well.

That said, the v281 maintains its flexibility of doubling as.a pre-amp for use with speakers, and in that role, it helps to drive the two front speakers of my reference system for 2-channel stereo listening. It serves this pre amp function surprisingly well, and this is one definite advantage it has over the LP, since the LP cannot serve such pre-amp duties. Conversely, tube-rolling brings a certain variability in flavors to the LP which the V281 cannot match, and yet this does not mean that I shall always prefer the LP's sound to that of the v281. You also have to take synergies with particular headphones and sometimes, particular songs also into account.

Here's a confession, though: From this viewpoint of sound-quality alone, I have often wondered, almost to the point of disbelief, how the LP can do so well when matched up against the V281, which is 3 times its price. The work of expectation bias here is strong, and yet I have to give credit where credit is due. I think Dr. Cavalli has put together an excellent sounding amp with an excellent price to performance ratio, that is truly difficult to match in today's market. Ironically, one could say the same, or almost, when comparing the LP to its own immediate ancestor in the Cavalli line-up, the much more expensive Liquid Crimson. It certainly goes to show that beyond a certain point, any idea of a strictly logical correspondence between price and sound quality becomes arbitrary, if not purely mythical.

Now coming back to my list of complicating factors, I think the addition of a tweaked Metrum Acoustics Ambre as a source that can feed both systems has also done a lot both to elevate the performance of both systems, and also blur further the difference in sq between them, helping to obscure the delta if not eliminate it entirely. Before the Ambre came, I was using a Sonore ultrarendu as a source for the Yggy/v281 combo, and the ambre made mince meat of the ultrarendu, although initially, it did not obscure the sq delta between the Yggy/v281 rig and the pre-burn in LP/Onyx combo, until some further tweaks on the Ambre down the line. The purchase of the Ambre was contemporaneous with those of the Onyx and the LP, so they all sort of "aged" together in the burn-in process I have alluded to. Now I have added an Etherregen switch to the ambre, so that it can serve both systems, and it has also further blurred the delta between both rigs, but I can also say that both systems have not everm sounded better than they do now....

So now that I have hopefully complicated the question to this point at which no simple answer seems possible, what would I do if I was forced to choose one? Now with all the above caveats in place, I'd still probably choose the V281, but not for reasons of its superior sound quality, but most likely, for reasons of its superior versatility as an amp-pre amp, and, most notably, fpr its resale value, because, as sad and silly as this sounds, I think the very great price point of the LP might also be its weakest point when it comes to resale considerations... The other consideration is build quality. The v281 looks built like a weapons grade military tank, a quality the LP does not share. I think the Liquid Crimson might have offered a.better competition on this front. The net result is that, no matter how great the LP sounds, it can never fetch more than $500 on the used market now, should I decide to sell it and go for something better. The V281 can still fetch me more than a grand, in my estimation, but these are strictly market rules in application here, as opposed to sound quality rules. Of course, once again, I could be wrong there too. :)
 
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May 23, 2020 at 11:18 PM Post #2,812 of 5,150
Ahh... That's not so hard to answer, although, as usual, the road to an answer can get really complicated. When I first got the LP, it sounded great, right out of the box, but the V281 seemed to sound superior, at least for some songs, and with some of my HPs.... Sometimes, it seemed to be performing on the same level as the v281, but at other times, the v281 seem to demonstrate a certain technical superiority, in terms of the width and depth of the soundstage, as well as in other aspects such as air, detail retrieval, separation of instruments, and bass/treble extension.

But here is the first complicating factor is: I have still not been able to ascertain how much if these differences to attribute to the DACs attached to each of these amps (The Yggy A2 feeding the V281, and the Metrum Onyx feeding the LP) and how much to attribute to the amps themselves

I agree that it would probably have taken just a bit of experimentation, swapping things around, and a couple of head to head listening shoot outs in order to nail down with more precision what exact sonic qualities to attribute to each amp and DAC in the system, and also to find out how amp/dac permutations would sound like. I regret to say that I have not done any such permutations or experimentations, in spite of my genuine curiosity about such differences. The reason? : Sometimes I think it is because I am too lazy to bother with them, but it is probably also because, I am not the kind to fuss too much with equipment, or mess with experimentations when the preliminary setups or configurations sound acceptably fine to my ears, and I have always been pleased with the way these two systems sound.

Here's another complicating factor : with time, the LP + Metrum Onyx combo seem to have bridged the performance gap I initially perceived between it and the Yggy A2/V281 combo, on the level of technical properties such as soundstage width, depth, imaging, air etc. etc. I have wondered what has caused this bridging of the gap: was that due to the effects of burn-in (since both the LP and the Onyx are relatively new and later acquisitions as compared to both the Yggy and the V281?), or simple psychoacoustic adjustments? It was probaly a little bit of both, but what I can say is that the differences I perceived initially regarding those technical attributes have all but disappeared, and the LP/Onyx can sound as open and as airy as the v281/Yggy combo. If there is any difference left, it has to reside in tonalities, but on the level, I like them both equally well.

That said, the v281 maintains its flexibility of doubling as.a pre-amp for use with speakers, and in that role, it helps to drive the two front speakers of my reference system for 2-channel stereo listening. It serves this pre amp function surprisingly well, and this is one definite advantage it has over the LP, since the LP cannot serve such pre-amp duties. Conversely, tube-rolling brings a certain variability in flavors to the LP which the V281 cannot match, and yet this does not mean that I shall always prefer the LP's sound to that of the v281. You also have to take synergies with particular headphones and sometimes, particular songs also into account.

Here's a confession, though: From this viewpoint of sound-quality alone, I have often wondered, almost to the point of disbelief, how the LP can do so well when matched up against the V281, which is 3 times its price. The work of expectation bias here is strong, and yet I have to give credit where credit is due. I think Dr. Cavalli has put together an excellent sounding amp with an excellent price to performance ratio, that is truly difficult to match in today's market. Ironically, one could say the same, or almost, when comparing the LP to its own immediate ancestor in the Cavalli line-up, the much more expensive Liquid Crimson. It certainly goes to show that beyond a certain point, any idea of a strictly logical correspondence between price and sound quality becomes arbitrary, if not purely mythical.

Now coming back to my list of complicating factors, I think the addition of a tweaked Metrum Acoustics Ambre as a source that can feed both systems has also done a lot both to elevate the performance of both systems, and also blur further the difference in sq between them, helping to obscure the delta if not eliminate it entirely. Before the Ambre came, the I was using a Sonore ultrarendu as a source for the Yggy/v281 combo, and the ambre made mince meat of the ultrarendu, although initially, it did not obscure the sq delta between the Yggy/v281 rig and the pre-burn in LP/Onyx combo, until some further tweaks on the Ambre down the line. Now I have added an Etherregen switch to the ambre, so that it can serve both systems, and it has also further blurred the delta between both rigs, but I can also say that both systems have not sounded better than they do now....

So now that I have hopefully complicated the question to this point at which no simple answer seems possible, what would I do if I was forced to choose one? Now with all the above caveats in place, I'd still probably choose the V281, but not for reasons of its superior sound quality, but most likely, for reasons of its superior versatility as an amp-pre amp, and its resale value, because, as sad and silly as this sounds, I think the very great price point of the LP might also be its weakest point when it comes to resale considerations... But, once again, I could be wrong there too. :)

I hope you are correct. I just bought a used V220 and I am real excited.

It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍
 
May 24, 2020 at 12:13 AM Post #2,813 of 5,150
It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍

Of course, the LP isn't really a $500 amp since it is not only closely based on a roughly $3K amp from a boutique seller with a few corners cut, but originally sold for $700-800; the latter is still listed as the MSRP. I'm sure economies of scale, since Monoprice undoubtedly sold vastly more of these than Cavalli Audio ever did or could, and savings from Chinese manufacture, figure prominently too. Why it is so cheap ATM, or whether the price cut is temporary or not, only Monoprice knows.
 
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May 24, 2020 at 3:23 PM Post #2,814 of 5,150
I hope you are correct. I just bought a used V220 and I am real excited.

It really does say a LOT about the LP that a $500.00 amp can hang with a $2,200.00 amp. That is almost four and a half times the price. Amazing!👍

I really hope the V220 works out well for you. I personally can't speak to its quality either way, since I am more familiar with the V281 which has a balanced circuitry. It is one of those amps which are deliberately built to perform better in balanced mode than in SE mode. I think the LP too is built that way, although the Liquid Crimson also had an exclusively SE topology, if I remember correctly. I have no first hand familiarity with any example of Violectric's approach to building exclusively SE amps, that is why I hesitate to comment on the V220. Left to me alone, and money being no object, I would have considered the Massdrop V280 to be a more easily recommendable alternative, but I do understand how the status of the Canadian $ complicates the purchase decision for you. Taking a purely speculative posture, I suspect the exclusively SE topology of the V220 will work for you, if you pair it with HPs that are designed to fully take advantage of SE topologies without compromising their performance. With that said, I'd really like to hear your impressions after you have auditioned the V220.
 
May 24, 2020 at 3:39 PM Post #2,815 of 5,150
I really hope the V220 works out well for you. I personally can't speak to its quality either way, since I am more familiar with the V281 which has a balanced circuitry. It is one of those amps which are deliberately built to perform better in balanced mode than in SE mode. I think the LP too is built that way, although the Liquid Crimson also had an exclusively SE topology, if I remember correctly. I have no first hand familiarity with any example of Violectric's approach to building exclusively SE amps, that is why I hesitate to comment on the V220. Left to me alone, and money being no object, I would have considered the Massdrop V280 to be a more easily recommendable alternative, but I do understand how the status of the Canadian $ complicates the purchase decision for you. Taking a purely speculative posture, I suspect the exclusively SE topology of the V220 will work for you, if you pair it with HPs that are designed to fully take advantage of SE topologies without compromising their performance. With that said, I'd really like to hear your impressions after you have auditioned the V220.

You are correct on the LP. Dr. Cavalli has even stated that the LP was only meant to be used balanced and the SE output was just added for convenience.

I am hoping that as the V220 was built to be an SE amp that it is their best implementation at making an SE amp. I find that most balanced amps are built and meant to be used via balanced output.

But there are MANY wonderful SE headphone amps around and I am hoping I just bought one.

And yes it really does take some extra commitment to be an audiophile in Canada with the current exchange rates. :smile:
 
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May 24, 2020 at 6:52 PM Post #2,816 of 5,150
Ha ha. Of all the components you have listed, I have first hand familiarity with exactly one, which is the LP (along with the Telefunken and Reflektor tubes). I wouldn't want to state any opinion about the others without having heard them first. All I can say for now, though, is that you have raised the question in the right place, and I hope someone with the appropriate range of experiences would be soon here to respond to your question. I wish I had. a more helpful answer than that. Really. :)
well could you answer the question if it were your V281 instead? Basically the V280 is the same without the DAC and a slightly inferior power supply but the amp sections are the same. If you had to choose between your LP and V281 which would get the axe?
 
May 24, 2020 at 8:45 PM Post #2,817 of 5,150
well could you answer the question if it were your V281 instead? Basically the V280 is the same without the DAC and a slightly inferior power supply but the amp sections are the same. If you had to choose between your LP and V281 which would get the axe?

Well you have probably missed it, but I think I just answered this same question in post #2811, above. You just went past it. :)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-188#post-15633880

Warning : it is not a straightforward answer, and keep in mind that I have every intention of keeping both amps well into the foreseeable future, although I might spring for another Cavalli (such as the Liquid God X) at some point, or another one from the Violectric family, the Niimbus US4+, for example, depending on the availability of budget resources.
 
May 24, 2020 at 9:45 PM Post #2,818 of 5,150
Well you have probably missed it, but I think I just answered this same question in post #2811, above. You just went past it. :)

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mon...by-alex-cavalli.876406/page-188#post-15633880

Warning : it is not a straightforward answer, and keep in mind that I have every intention of keeping both amps well into the foreseeable future, although I might spring for another Cavalli (such as the Liquid God X) at some point, or another one from the Violectric family, the Niimbus US4+, for example, depending on the availability of budget resources.

That Nimbus US4+ will definitely require a massive budget! :smile:

Just for giggles and because I have way too much free time, I did a little list of their gear for me.

Assuming list price, current exchange rate and 15% sales tax (Nova Scotia, Canada), here is my landed price for these goodies:
  • Nimbus US4+ = $9,797.92
  • Nimbus US4 = $7,348.42
  • Violectric HPA V281 FE = $3,590.97
  • Violectric HPA V280 = $2,776.02
  • Violectric HPA V280 = $1,957.97 (from MassDrop) + shipping
  • Violectric HPA V200-A = $1,959.52
  • Lake People HPA RS 08 = $1,387.97.
  • Lake People G111 = $783.76
  • Lake People G103S and 103P, with and without XLR inputs. $440 and $522
 
May 24, 2020 at 10:36 PM Post #2,819 of 5,150
That Nimbus US4+ will definitely require a massive budget! :smile:

Just for giggles and because I have way too much free time, I did a little list of their gear for me.

Assuming list price, current exchange rate and 15% sales tax (Nova Scotia, Canada), here is my landed price for these goodies:
  • Nimbus US4+ = $9,797.92
  • Nimbus US4 = $7,348.42
  • Violectric HPA V281 FE = $3,590.97
  • Violectric HPA V280 = $2,776.02
  • Violectric HPA V280 = $1,957.97 (from MassDrop) + shipping
  • Violectric HPA V200-A = $1,959.52
  • Lake People HPA RS 08 = $1,387.97.
  • Lake People G111 = $783.76
  • Lake People G103S and 103P, with and without XLR inputs. $440 and $522
The level of inflation I see here is certainly spectacular, and staggering at the same time. I already find the prices of much audio gear in the USA (particularly, those typically classified as "high end") to be too hyped up already, even without the taxes and duties. Which is why I value products such as the LP, and the upcoming Liquid Gold X, and also. to a lesser extent, some products from Schiit Audio, and Massdrop. I am talking about all the "voodoo" methods through which boutique products that could normally be very expensive might be scaled down to more affordable alternatives without much of loss in the quality the sound. For that reason alone, I wish we had more retired but still active restless boutique industry geniuses like Dr Cavalli in the business. For Giggles, I am dreaming of Monolith Monoprice versions of the Abyss TC, the Hifiman Susvara headphones, and the Chord Dave as we speak. I know it will probably never happen, but why the hell not? :relaxed:
 
May 28, 2020 at 12:16 PM Post #2,820 of 5,150
I got the LP a couple of days ago and I very happy with it thus far. It seems to provide small, but noticeable, improvements over the THX 789 I had been using (and which has moved to my Blu-ray/TV setup)--with the Focal Elex, soundstage seems a trifle wider with a bit better separation, drums and bass hit a little harder, and evrything seems to sound the tiniest bit more more natural. I'm about two days into the 100-hour break-in suggested in the manual and the slight harshness that I noticed on some vocals right out of the box seems to have largely disappeared. I can't wait to hear the ZMF Aeolus on it. (The Aeolus is probably at least a month away; I'm also planning to upgrade my DAC next month.)

I did have one question. I have several pieces of gear with external power supplies and when the power connector is inserted into the power jack it generally inserts fully until the rubber housing is flush with the jack. However, the LP's connector will not quite insert all the way--about an 1/8 of an inch of the bare metal metal connector protrudes between the jack and the black housing. It appears to work just fine though; I've had it on continuously for about two days (for break-in) without issue. Is this normal for the LP and if not could it cause a problem?
 
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