[MacedonianHero]

And that is exactly why MacedonianHero's comments on 1R sounding more closed struck me as odd.

Right back at you. Sheesh.

What about the uneven treble or rolled off bass on the Sony's? I think you forgot those. But then again, you're a big fan of the W5000s (an acquired taste IMO), so we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 

[roguegeek]

Quote:

The Sony's offer great value at 60% off of the Momentums with regards to price. But that said, there was nothing that the Sony's did better than the Momentums to my ears. The bass is rolled off on the Sony's, the imaging was a bit more closed and the treble was peaky to my ears. Noise isolation-wise they were on par.
 
The Momentums hit on all the right notes and I can understand why Tyll put them on the Wall of Fame. Agreed that these are more supra-aural headphones, but I've had them on my head for an hour and a half with no issues. Don't get me wrong, for $200ish, the MDR-1Rs are fantastic and hard to beat for that price range. But I would say that the improvements that one hears with the Momentums are worth it if you can swing it.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf
vs.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserMomentum.pdf
 
...in case you're interested in that stuff (I certainly am). 
 
Just my 2 cents...YMMV of course.

 
I understand your opinion and what the graphs say, but the only thing that matters to me is my ears and they're telling me the 1R performs better as an all-arounder. They're both amazing, sonically, and there's music that definitely sounds better on the Momentum (more bass reliant music for instance), but the 1R has a far more versatile signature and a noticeably larger soundstage (which is important to me). The sonics is just one aspect of it, too. When you factor in ergonomics, value, a little thing things like the frail cables, you have a very clear winner in the 1R.
 
It's all subjective, of course. Whatever can is better for you is the one you should pick. The simple fact that this much discussion exists between the two just strengthens the case that you can't really make a wrong decision here.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Right back at you. Sheesh.

What about the uneven treble or rolled off bass on the Sony's? I think you forgot those. But then again, you're a big fan of the W5000s (an acquired taste IMO), so we'll have to agree to disagree here.

 
Do you really get that upset when someone's opinion is different from yours or it's just your posting style? Looks almost like you take disagreement personally.

 

[Sound Quest]

I don't really agree with the general view that the momentums sound better.
 
They're certainly more flat and less coloured, but not necessarily in a good way. They also sound a little bit odd to my ears and I think the spike at 5khz may have something to do with this.
 
I was fortunate enough to recently try the 1R's. They're definitely more fun sounding in my opinion. A bit more emphasize on the mid-bass, but not too much. I'd recommend them over the momentums easily.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
Do you really get that upset when someone's opinion is different from yours or it's just your posting style? Looks almost like you take disagreement personally.

Actually to remind you, I posted my thoughts as I just picked up the Momentums and you jumped over them as to try to invalidate them. Feel free to scroll back, or better still, just read below to see that it was you who responded to my post (that was not directed at anyone, just sharing my thoughts). Not kewel...second time since the W5000 fiasco (which by they way share simliar qualities to the mdr-1r...rolled off bass and peaky treble).
 
 

The Sony's offer great value at 60% off of the Momentums with regards to price. But that said, there was nothing that the Sony's did better than the Momentums to my ears. The bass is rolled off on the Sony's, the imaging was a bit more closed and the treble was peaky to my ears. Noise isolation-wise they were on par.
 
The Momentums hit on all the right notes and I can understand why Tyll put them on the Wall of Fame. Agreed that these are more supra-aural headphones, but I've had them on my head for an hour and a half with no issues. Don't get me wrong, for $200ish, the MDR-1Rs are fantastic and hard to beat for that price range. But I would say that the improvements that one hears with the Momentums are worth it if you can swing it.
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf
vs.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SennheiserMomentum.pdf
 
...in case you're interested in that stuff (I certainly am). 
 
Just my 2 cents...YMMV of course.

And your response to my post that simply stated my opinion as to try to invalidate it because you didn't agree.

Except not everyone is able to hear that *improvement*, quite contrary.
The imaging on Sony is more closed and treble is peaky, wow, we definitely hear very, very differently. 

 

 
That said, I'd still take the MDR-1R over the W5000s.  

 
Sorry, but I don't mix well anymore with coloured headphones. Over time they become very fatiguing and un-natural to listen to. I did once really like Grados and the such way back when, but after really getting into audio, I've come to appreciate "neutral" and natural gear. 

 

[Maxx134]

You cannot dismiss what you ears hear.. Yet..
There is no peaky treble on the 1r.
You are alone in that statement.

Which means whatever equipment you used plus whatever source plus selection of music you used caused that specific scenario ..

So looks like in your case, you would do better with another headphones.

Edit: aha I see now...
The graph gave you a mental misconception maybe?
From the pdf file if you read correctly it shows a rise in the mids,
Wich correlates with general consensus that it is mid-centric with nice soundstage.

 

[money4me247]

Quote:

You cannot dismiss what you ears hear.. Yet..
There is no peaky treble on the 1r.
You are alone in that statement.

Which means whatever equipment you used plus whatever source plus selection of music you used caused that specific scenario ..

So looks like in your case, you would do better with another headphones.

 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22QYriWAF-U
 
heh =P

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

You cannot dismiss what you ears hear.. Yet..
There is no peaky treble on the 1r.
You are alone in that statement.

Which means whatever equipment you used plus whatever source plus selection of music you used caused that specific scenario ..

So looks like in your case, you would do better with another headphones.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/SonyMDR1R.pdf
 
Peaky treble...I can hear and see. 

 Do not invalidate my experiences....trust me, I know what I hear and I know what good gear sounds like. The Sony's are ok (maybe even good), but certainly not great. 
 
LoL I think my main rig is up to the task of driving these cans? I had both in my home for a few days and it wasn't much of a decision to make in favour of the Senns.
 
Cambridge Audio CD 650C --> Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 --> HeadAmp GS-X.  So I think my comments stand...peaky treble (i.e. not smooth but strident and cut out at other frequencies while peaking at the 8-10kHz...thus the peaky comment). Yet I don't hear stridency on the same recordings with my SR-009s, HD800s, LCD-3s, TH-900s, or Momentums, but I DO with the Sony's. So I'm gonna have to trust what I hear from my other headphones and make the MDR-1R's the outlier. 

 

[Andrew_WOT]

 
 
Not a big fan of charts reading as they can influence your perception of the phones even before hearing one, but it looks to me that Sony should have less treble energy in 3k-5k range and the same or even slightly less in blamed 8-10k (not many things go that high though)

 
Let's celebrate the diversity of opinion. Cheers!

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

 
 
Not a big fan of charts reading as they can influence your perception of the phones even before hearing one, but it looks to me that Sony should have less treble energy in 3k-5k range and the same or even slightly less in blamed 8-10k (not many things go that high though)

 
Let's celebrate the diversity of opinion. Cheers!

Yeah I have no idea where those measurements came from, the knowledge base of the test or the test procedures followed. So I'm gonna stick with Tyll's numbers for those reasons 

. That and his measurements are very close to what I hear! Especially the bass drop off on the Sony's in the sub-bass region 20-60Hz and un-even treble when I performed a frequency sweep and used both my ears and an SPL meter. 

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Yeah I have no idea where those measurements came from, the knowledge base of the test or the test procedures followed.

If you are seriously cuirios
http://personalaudio.ru/detail/naushniki_sony_1r_i_1rbt/
In details
http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/so/index.php

 

[roguegeek]

Quote:

If you are seriously cuirios
http://personalaudio.ru/detail/naushniki_sony_1r_i_1rbt/
In details
http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/so/index.php

 
I love Google translator.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

 
I love Google translator.

LOL, these guys have pretty extensive database of headphones measurements
http://personalaudio.ru/raa/otchety/naushniki/
And this one covers different types of headphones test benches and standards they use, quite interesting
http://personalaudio.ru/detail/tekhnicheskie_stendy_dlya_izmereniy_naushnikov/

 

[archagon]

Have any of you folks had experience with the MDR-1RBTs? I've been looking for a pair of $300-$400 headphones to replace my old set of Grados, and I just can't decide between them and the Momentums. On the one hand, a lot of people are saying that the Momentums have better sound quality. On the other hand, many others seem to prefer the MDR-1Rs (perhaps qualified with the sale price?), and they're also universally considered the more comfortable of the two. What complicates matters is that the 1RBTs have slightly different hardware and reportedly sound a bit different from the 1Rs. Unfortunately, most measurements and reviews I've been able to find focus the phones in wireless mode, which I'll only be using half the time and not for audiophile purposes. The Head-Fi 2012 Holiday Gift Guide says that "with sound quality in the MDR-1RBT's passive mode even closer to its passive-only MDR-1R sibling, it's obvious Sony spent as much time and effort getting the MDR-1RBT acoustically tuned as they did perfecting its electronics", but that's a very non-specific statement, and worryingly implies that the 1RBTs sound worse than the 1Rs in passive mode.
 
I've done a bit of listening with both, and keeping in mind that this is my very first experience with $100+ headphones, it seemed to me like the Sonys had a wider soundstage and the Sennheisers had better detail. (But for all I know this could be BS. It's hard to compare sound if your listening happens a day apart.) Neither headphone jumped out at me as phenomenally better than the other.
 
I'm specifically interested in all-around performance, as these will be my main audio output for pretty much everything I do.

 

[Maxx134]

Haha you are correct in your assumptions because they are your ears!
But if you are used to grado sound then I would look elsewhere,
Probably a more forward can like the audio technica es700.