Mod House Audio Tungsten - Planar Magnetic Headphones - Impressions and Discussion
Mar 15, 2024 at 10:36 AM Post #2,461 of 2,941
Curious if anybody has actually attempted to quantify (I know this is subjective) the Tungsten vs. Susvara or Abyss 1266. For example, I was guessing from reviews, that Tungsten is 90% of Susvara at 1/3 the cost. I'm sure everyone on the Susvara page would disagree. :L3000:
My take on Tungsten was unpopular, but I don't have many complaints about the headphone, just the way its been talked about. I've owned lcd5, susvara and tungsten. Tungsten isnt as resolving or as well separated as the other 2 in a side by side comparison. Not to my ear anyways. More linear "flat tuning" than both, but with the ultra perforated pads its a little too flat for my tastes. I ordered the hybrid pads on Jan 14th and they havent shipped yet so cant comment on those, but with the differences described by others, Tungsten could easily be the best tuned headphone I own. Tungsten also has the advantage of being wider and less "in your face" than both. The soundstage lovers will really enjoy Tungsten. As far as quantifying it, Tungsten is easily >90% of these other 2 headphones, but I dont think its better than either outside of value. I could easily sell Susvara and live my life with Tungsten instead. I just dont have to yet so I wont be doing that.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 10:41 AM Post #2,462 of 2,941
Curious if anybody has actually attempted to quantify (I know this is subjective) the Tungsten vs. Susvara or Abyss 1266. For example, I was guessing from reviews, that Tungsten is 90% of Susvara at 1/3 the cost. I'm sure everyone on the Susvara page would disagree. :L3000:
I auditioned the Tungsten D/S at CanJam NYC on the MASS-Kobo 465, HeadAmp CFA3, and some model $22.5k Viva tube amp. I was able to A/B the Susvara in all cases. The two headphones don't sound particularly similar, so I don't want to provide a percentage figure. To my ears, they are also not close to being on the same tier. My biggest issue with Tungsten was in its bass presentation, and it wasn't special enough anywhere else for me to overlook that.

I'm not trying to be Debbie Downer, but I’m now reading posts stating without qualification that Tungsten is at Susvara level, and *I* consider that a disservice to the Susvara, and potential buyers of either headphone.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 10:43 AM Post #2,463 of 2,941
My biggest issue with Tungsten was in its bass presentation
Can you provide some more detail, what did feel off to you regarding its bass presentation?
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 11:00 AM Post #2,464 of 2,941
Curious if anybody has actually attempted to quantify (I know this is subjective) the Tungsten vs. Susvara or Abyss 1266. For example, I was guessing from reviews, that Tungsten is 90% of Susvara at 1/3 the cost. I'm sure everyone on the Susvara page would disagree. :L3000:
so the percentages on offer are arbitrary, which is hardly surprising in this hobby and there is disagreement as you predicted. you ultimately need to experience and compare these headphones for yourself in order to assess them in a way that's meaningful to you.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 11:45 AM Post #2,465 of 2,941
It’s unfortunate that wait times are longer than 2 months but Ryan is a single household boutique manufacturer. But if you order any high end device that isn’t mass produced, you will always have to wait for it to be produced, like Holo Audio equipment, tube amps, etc.
Yep, I think that for the Zahl HM1 amp there's almost a one year waiting list and he's only making about 50 of those, but yes in comparison to other audio products, tungsten it's not the worst regarding lead times by far.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:21 PM Post #2,466 of 2,941
Yep, I think that for the Zahl HM1 amp there's almost a one year waiting list and he's only making about 50 of those, but yes in comparison to other audio products, tungsten it's not the worst regarding lead times by far.
Agree 100%. Just look at the wait times for Decware amps. Try ordering the Decware Zen UFO amp. I think it’s a 3 year minimum wait time.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:27 PM Post #2,467 of 2,941
This has really piqued my curiosity about the Tungsten. Currently, I'm an Abyss 1266 owner and I'm selling some gear to raise funds for the Susvara. I'm taking my time in doing so, and there's not rush. However, I've been following the Tungsten thread here and continue to be very intrigued and they hype seems genuine across the board. The price point is spectacular, as many state Tungsten competes with the big boys that are 3x as expensive.

Although guys on other threads have stated Tungsten is great, but not Susvara/1266 great. You know, subjective feedback is just that. Tungsten owners will state one thing, while Sus owners will say something else. Nonetheless, I'm looking forward to hearing the Tungsten myself and make my decision. If it actually competes with the Sus and is 90% as good, but at a fraction of the price, it's a no-brainer for me.
I own both. They absolutely play in the same league.

Can you provide some more detail, what did feel off to you regarding its bass presentation?
Would be interesting to know for me, too as I think that it’s some of the best bass in the market in terms of both quantity and quality…
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:32 PM Post #2,468 of 2,941
Can you provide some more detail, what did feel off to you regarding its bass presentation?
On first listen (MASS-Kobo 465), Tungsten's bass sounded "recessed", lower in level and impact than on Susvara and other headphones I'd listened to throughout the day. This remained consistent (to varying degrees) on the other amps I tried, and across a variety of genres and tracks. My subjective impression was that bass notes had decent initial attack, and then receded quickly without proper sustain, like there was a damping blanket on the "woofer". This had a palpable impact on the Tungsten's ability to convey groove... again, to my ears.

@goldwerger , whose ears I respect, actually owns the headphone and has heard it at great length, in better conditions, and on a plethora of amps, so maybe I simply failed to find the "magic synergy" that makes the Tungsten sing. OTOH, given the its lack of availability, insane amping requirements, and the fact that I simply enjoy (without any fuss) a number of other headphones at or around the $2k level more, I don't see myself investing any more time for the foreseeable future pursuing it. YMMV.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:35 PM Post #2,469 of 2,941
On first listen (MASS-Kobo 465), Tungsten's bass sounded "recessed", lower in level and impact than on Susvara and other headphones I'd listened to throughout the day. This remained consistent (to varying degrees) on the other amps I tried, and across a variety of genres and tracks. My subjective impression was that bass notes had decent initial attack, and then receded quickly without proper sustain, like there was a damping blanket on the "woofer". This had a palpable impact on the Tungsten's ability to convey groove... again, to my ears.

@goldwerger , whose ears I respect, actually owns the headphone and has heard it at great length, in better conditions, and on a plethora of amps, so maybe I simply failed to find the "magic synergy" that makes the Tungsten sing. OTOH, given the its lack of availability, insane amping requirements, and the fact that I simply enjoy (without any fuss) a number of other headphones at or around the $2k level more, I don't see myself investing any more time for the foreseeable future pursuing it. YMMV.
Did you listen to the SS or DS version of tungsten and what pads did the HP had on?
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 12:38 PM Post #2,470 of 2,941
Did you listen to the SS or DS version of tungsten and what pads did the HP had on?
DS, and I'm not sure what pads. I just used the Tungsten as configured at the various tables.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 1:20 PM Post #2,472 of 2,941
On first listen (MASS-Kobo 465), Tungsten's bass sounded "recessed", lower in level and impact than on Susvara and other headphones I'd listened to throughout the day. This remained consistent (to varying degrees) on the other amps I tried, and across a variety of genres and tracks. My subjective impression was that bass notes had decent initial attack, and then receded quickly without proper sustain, like there was a damping blanket on the "woofer". This had a palpable impact on the Tungsten's ability to convey groove... again, to my ears.

@goldwerger , whose ears I respect, actually owns the headphone and has heard it at great length, in better conditions, and on a plethora of amps, so maybe I simply failed to find the "magic synergy" that makes the Tungsten sing. OTOH, given the its lack of availability, insane amping requirements, and the fact that I simply enjoy (without any fuss) a number of other headphones at or around the $2k level more, I don't see myself investing any more time for the foreseeable future pursuing it. YMMV.

well, I've just rolled some new output tubes on my DIY Aegies, replacing my beloved EL37 with Tung-Sol made RCA 6550 (this amp is particularly great for tube rolling, and most responsive in sound signature to the choice of output tubes).

Listening now with the Tungsten (ds; ultra perf pads). These tubes defintely extracst a much deeper and tighter bass (not surprsiing, as they were the US version of the European KT88 and of similar DNA).

The bass is awesome! Now, for those that look for "bassy headphones", I found that means that they often love headphones that are tuned with a real bass shelf. The Tungsten isn't, it's tuned naturally without any artifical coloration of FR tilt. But, when bunch is called for, it's just awesome - natural, not exaggerated, right quanity and well textured.

I just put on the track "OK" by Kirk Franklin, a gospel song with some real earth-shattering sub-bass and mid banss (an awesome testing track btw, and so much fun regardless:wink:). The Tungsten capture the sub-bass rumbel (e.g. min 1:03 to 1:20); doesn't physically shake you (for that, see Atrium Closed; or perhaps 1266 for those who can live with that device), but it renders is very well without exaggeration. And lower/mid bass is super physical, lush, and impactful. These headphones are just f$%^-ing awesome!
1710522575306.png


Also, they render bass with a very satisfyting attack with sufficeint decay to make the notes both impactful and organic sounding. I've now switched to this jazz/classic fusion piece by Jacques Loussier that has tons of hard-hirring fast drums, as well as highly percussive piano. I'm just having a blast!

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Now, as for ease of amplification...

With the new release of the commrecial version of the Aegis this past weekend for $3.2k release price if I recall (will be $3.5k later I think) -- there is now a very accessible TC tube-amp option that is mid-priced (realizing this will be too expensive for many, so using this adjective in relation to a very wide spectrum of amps).

The Aegis has a very (very) broad selection of tubes rolls that allow for very signifciant tuning to taste. At this moment, the 6550 are proving to be a bass-lover delight, while retaining great reoslution and clarity.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 2:09 PM Post #2,474 of 2,941
According to measurements that Ryan scored, Susvara bass has a nice plateau of bass that extends into the sub bass. Tungsten DS with UP pads however has a slight dip in the sub bass region, with a slight elevation in mid bass. Tungsten is a bit more neutral in the midrange compared to Susvara and treble is slightly less than Susvara.
Keep in mind the caveat of measurments, it depends on the measuring equipment, fitting etc.

On my May Bliss setup how does this translate:
For rap music that I’ve tried made in the late 80: to early-00s, Susvara sub bass makes rap and hip hop really bounce with the bass. You feel it in your head. Overall presentation is pretty good.
Tungsten lacks the bop of Susvara because of that sub bass dip but the mid bass characteristics makes drums stand out a bit more. The layering and imaging of Tungsten for this genre is interesting but without me modding the Tungsten chain in someway, I give points to Susvara for many tracks.

For heavy alternative music like Soundgarden, Radiohead:
Tungsten gives weight to guitars and vocals, with more engaging bass. Susvara seems to be more reference in that all the elements are there but it can come off polite, a little boring at times.
Sometimes vocals can be a bit thin (on my setup) Overall I give this to the Tungsten because it’s not just the bass that’s better but the presentation is more like what you expect rock music should sound like.

Orchesteal music: Susvara sounds big and spacious but the dynamics aren’t what I expect with my set up. I want to be moved emotionally enough to cry but the Susvara can be a bit polite. Tungsten delivers the energy to make me tear or really feel it in my being. Susvara sounds nicer for some tracks but Tungsten imaging can make tracks more inside the orchestra.

Acoustic music trades blows. Sometimes Susvara is sweeter sometimes Tungsten has better timbre and details like hearing the distinctness of the wood or the variations of space and dynamics in a voice.

So anything less than ideal about Tungsten I can correct with using a hybrid silver/copper table or trying a different amp. CanJam NYC has shown me that high end stuff can really improve the Tungsten sound like the Mass Kobo 465 giving the Tungsten Susvara like sub bass and better imaging, and airier treble, for example.

Or using the Wandla GS with impact+, and I get Susvara like bass.

Even if there some tracks that are less than the Susvara ideal, the overall presentation still has that goodness that is beyond frequency response.
 
Mar 15, 2024 at 2:10 PM Post #2,475 of 2,941
I’m curious if you remember the clamp force? My SS had less bass when the clamp was too tight. I understand it’s the opposite on DS. On that the bass gets less with less clamp.
Clamp force felt about on par with a Susvara. I thought the Tungsten was very comfortable, and quite well-built and attractive overall in hand, FWIW.

Regarding sound quality: clearly my opinion is the outlier, but I felt compelled to report what I heard. If the headphone is still getting near-universal raves in a year or two, I'll likely revisit it. For now, I'll exit this thread, stage left, before I get run over by the [redacted] train. :relaxed:

Continued success to Mod House, and congrats to everyone for whom Tungsten is the bee's knees. And I mean that sincerely!
 

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