Mod House Audio Tungsten - Planar Magnetic Headphones - Impressions and Discussion

[staticosaur]

Could anybody explain how the DAC voltage affects the system voltage that comes out of the amp?

On another note, has anybody tried the Tungstens with Violectric V222 and out of what DAC? It seems to get around 20V alone.

 

[goldwerger]

Voltage levels out of the DAC could be crucial here. I suspect 2V into WA23 vs. 4V (or higher) into WA23 - could make the difference between "not loud enough" and "plenty of headroom"...

Just my 2 cents.

Looking back at my personal picture from SoCal, I was using the RCA out cable from my SP2000, which means I was feeding it 3V. I can't say if that delta made the difference, but with that specific source an input voltage, and with the specific tubes they had there, the Luna was terrific with the Tungsten.

 

[goldwerger]

Could anybody explain how the DAC voltage affects the system voltage that comes out of the amp?

Your amp will have a specific gain, usually quoted in dB, which denotes the factor by which it will increase whatever voltage (line-in signal) is fed into it.

If you need a certain output voltage, it will be a combination of the voltage fed into the amp, and the gain it has (i.e. how much it can "multiply" that).

(one more thing to note is when input voltage is very high, your noise floor and dynamic range may be impacted)

 

[psy472]

Would a Schiit Vali 2++ as a preamp into a Schiit Midgard be a good way to get more volume out of the Tungsten from the Midgard? I've got the Vali 2++ and Midgard and have noticed the Midgard's output gets much louder with the Vali 2++ as a preamp than without.

I have been wondering the same question. After going through all the reviews here, I noticed no one tried a preamp to amp setup for the Tungsten. They’ve been so focused in getting that one great and expensive amp that they ignored the combination of mid level gears.

So to answer your question, I don’t know but Midgard by itself probably won’t be able to drive the Tungsten fully (on Schiit’s FAQ). However, I gander to think with the preamp you can probably make it work.

 

[skeeb23]

I have been wondering the same question. After going through all the reviews here, I noticed no one tried a preamp to amp setup for the Tungsten. They’ve been so focused in getting that one great and expensive amp that they ignored the combination of mid level gears.

So to answer your question, I don’t know but Midgard by itself probably won’t be able to drive the Tungsten fully (on Schiit’s FAQ). However, I gander to think with the preamp you can probably make it work.

I can definitely confirm that the Midgard doesn't do the Tungsten any justice. I paired it up with the BF 2/64 and I had to go almost 90-90% volume on high gain. It lacked dynamics and just wasn't a good listen. I'd be very curious on a pre-amp for sure...but boosting the volts may introduce other unwanted things with an amp like the Midgard. I only say that because it isn't a true balanced amp.

 

[Prism24]

I have been wondering the same question. After going through all the reviews here, I noticed no one tried a preamp to amp setup for the Tungsten. They’ve been so focused in getting that one great and expensive amp that they ignored the combination of mid level gears.

So to answer your question, I don’t know but Midgard by itself probably won’t be able to drive the Tungsten fully (on Schiit’s FAQ). However, I gander to think with the preamp you can probably make it work.

I have been wondering the same question. After going through all the reviews here, I noticed no one tried a preamp to amp setup for the Tungsten. They’ve been so focused in getting that one great and expensive amp that they ignored the combination of mid level gears.

So to answer your question, I don’t know but Midgard by itself probably won’t be able to drive the Tungsten fully (on Schiit’s FAQ). However, I gander to think with the preamp you can probably make it work.

Kind of a newbish question, but I was always under the impression that preamps were mainly used in hifi speaker systems for audiophiles who wanted to separate components as much as possible, and they usually had a headphone jack on them.

Is it common for headphone enthusiasts to use a preamp in their chain? If so, what’s the main benefit?

 

[goldwerger]

Kind of a newbish question, but I was always under the impression that preamps were mainly used in hifi speaker systems for audiophiles who wanted to separate components as much as possible, and they usually had a headphone jack on them.

Is it common for headphone enthusiasts to use a preamp in their chain? If so, what’s the main benefit?

reply is tangential to this thread, but happy to try, given answer below. Send me pm if you need more info so can keep this thread Tungsten focused

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Many headphone enthusiast will prfer separate components similar to 2-channel folks, so they can tweak and optimize different parts of their chains, and get the best of each to their taste.

Preamps serve two functions mostly: (1) volume control, (2) switching (allow multiple source components to connect to it).

The reason you see this less in the heapdhone world is becuase all headphone amplifiers are, essentially integrated amplifiers, i.e. amplifiers that include gain stage with volume control; and more often then not (not always), the ability to connect 2-3 sources to the amp directly. In the speaker world, unless one uses an integrated amplifier (that is a two-in-on speaker amp and preamp), then a preamp is required before the speaker amp.

Some headphone users will use a preamp for the purposes above, mostly to connect multiple sources (like CD player, vinyl, streaming server).

But also for one addition reason: to add a flavor in the chain. For example, a tube pre-amp can let one use tube rolling (i.e. whichever tube you choose) to tailor some of the overall sound signature, to complement some of their other compoents, etc.

Another option, less common (and the one I use) is to just get a switch box to which you can connect multiple sources, or connect multiple outputs to several amplifiers (or both).

Hope this helps

 

[Quadrangulator]

I can definitely confirm that the Midgard doesn't do the Tungsten any justice. I paired it up with the BF 2/64 and I had to go almost 90-90% volume on high gain. It lacked dynamics and just wasn't a good listen. I'd be very curious on a pre-amp for sure...but boosting the volts may introduce other unwanted things with an amp like the Midgard. I only say that because it isn't a true balanced amp.

Great video review of the Tungsten!

As for powering it, would you have similar reservations about feeding the Midgard more volts from balanced outputs from a DAC, such as the JDS Labs El DAC II+?

With the Midgard seemingly not up to the Tungsten task, I wonder if either pushing the Midgard with a pre or balanced DAC outs or buying a Jotunheim 2 would be the better option.

 

[skeeb23]

Great video review of the Tungsten!

As for powering it, would you have similar reservations about feeding the Midgard more volts from balanced outputs from a DAC, such as the JDS Labs El DAC II+?

With the Midgard seemingly not up to the Tungsten task, I wonder if either pushing the Midgard with a pre or balanced DAC outs or buying a Jotunheim 2 would be the better option.

Really hard to say for the Midgard. Since it's not a balanced AMP I don't know if it would be up to the task even with more volts going in. I could see some oddities being introduced with that...or...maybe it works. Never know till you try. The Midgard has me pretty excited for what else Schiit will do with the Halo topology.

I'm completely speculating but saying on the Midgard page that it works with most HP's except maybe the Tungsten would think a preamp or more volts in may not have the desired effect. Thank you for watching the video - I really tried to do the Tungsten some justice!

 

[Cecala]

Hey guys, the video referenced here is mine. Let me try to explain a couple of things brought up...

As for the comparisons first: I chose the Organic mostly due to both price range and driver tech, both being planars. When I spoke to Ryan of Modhouse, he even asked how the two would compare. Since the Organic is such a popular headphone currently (and for good reason) this is why I went that route. The Auteur Classic I have is a great headphone as well but it doesn't have the bass presence of the Tungsten, probably the biggest heard difference and then there is of course the DD nature of it.

Now the reason I didn't compare to many others was due to only having what I own on hand. Keep in mind I'm a small, yet growing, channel. So having my hands on multiple pieces of gear at once is something I'm just not capable of doing yet. I don't like comparing too much to things I don't have currently to listen to because audio memory can be a bit hazy.

Also as to questions about different amps, well, same answer However I'd like to think I keep a solid set of gear for testing.

One of you had asked about the E3...yes I will be covering the E3 soon.

Please understand that YouTube is not my full time gig. I have a very busy work schedule so if I don't answer questions it is not because I'm dodging or ignoring, I'm just a busy guy. I have a family too.

I love this hobby and the community so I try to do my best to give back and help out others in the process.

Cheers!

Thanks for this reply. BTW, my comment earlier on is not to be taken as an attack. I was simply curious as to why firstly, you placed the ZMF Atrium above the Tungsten (in sound terms) and secondly why not compare a DD to a Planer. Everybody compares different driver tech and Open/closed phones. I was the one asking about the E3 BTW. I noticed it in the background of your video. Please compare this upcoming headphone review to your ZMF and Tungstens.

 

[EternalChampion]

It feels as if this headphone is still in pre-production. Is it possible that newer, more efficient driver versions will appear the upcoming months?

9.2 vs 9.0 there's a significant efficiency improvement. I would call it the "amp relief" iteration.

I mean if version 11 pops up making it a lot easier to drive then why not wait for a while? I have the donkey's patience when the situation calls for.

 

[Dixter]

Tungsten just got the best open headphone of the year...

 

[skeeb23]

It feels as if this headphone is still in pre-production. Is it possible that newer, more efficient driver versions will appear the upcoming months?

9.2 vs 9.0 there's a significant efficiency improvement. I would call it the "amp relief" iteration.

I mean if version 11 pops up making it a lot easier to drive then why not wait for a while? I have the donkey's patience when the situation calls for.

I don't believe that is the plan. It's not pre-production. He's (Modhouse) gone through many revisions to land on this driver with the sound signature that most agree is excellent.

You have to remember the scale of the company Modhouse is and I would imagine it is not so easy to continue trying out different drivers and all that goes into it from the cost perspective.

Personally, I'm fine with it. We all know now that you need good power to drive it, but man that sounds is good! If anything, I could see aesthetic or comfort updates happening but not more driver updates.

I'm not speaking for Modhouse though, just my opinion based off of the journey to get to where we are today with the Tungsten.

 

[skeeb23]

Thanks for this reply. BTW, my comment earlier on is not to be taken as an attack. I was simply curious as to why firstly, you placed the ZMF Atrium above the Tungsten (in sound terms) and secondly why not compare a DD to a Planer. Everybody compares different driver tech and Open/closed phones. I was the one asking about the E3 BTW. I noticed it in the background of your video. Please compare this upcoming headphone review to your ZMF and Tungstens.

You're good, no offense taken.

I didn't place the Atrium above the Tungsten, or at least, didn't intend to if you took it that way. The Atrium closed is a completely different driver type and housing (closed vs open) and *most people would not directly compare them. Sound differences, sure, but how that sound is presented in head vs out is going to be different.
You said everybody compares different driver tech and open/closed, but that's a pretty big statement that I don't agree with. That's ok though, disagreements will happen quite often in hobbies.

Comparing something like the Tungsten to an E3 or Closed Atrium just does not seem quite as relevant other then a 1 off. I'm more then happy to answer that on the side but don't see me inserting that into a video when covering a product.

I don't want to derail this topic though, so if you want to discuss further, feel free to DM me.

I will say my impressions of the E3 are not complete yet.

Your topic does have me salivating at the thought of a closed back Tungsten down the road though!

 

[Corporalis]

You're good, no offense taken.

I didn't place the Atrium above the Tungsten, or at least, didn't intend to if you took it that way. The Atrium closed is a completely different driver type and housing (closed vs open) and *most people would not directly compare them. Sound differences, sure, but how that sound is presented in head vs out is going to be different.
You said everybody compares different driver tech and open/closed, but that's a pretty big statement that I don't agree with. That's ok though, disagreements will happen quite often in hobbies.

Comparing something like the Tungsten to an E3 or Closed Atrium just does not seem quite as relevant other then a 1 off. I'm more then happy to answer that on the side but don't see me inserting that into a video when covering a product.

I don't want to derail this topic though, so if you want to discuss further, feel free to DM me.

I will say my impressions of the E3 are not complete yet.

Your topic does have me salivating at the thought of a closed back Tungsten down the road though!

Imagine Ryan making a face plate that turns the tungsten into closed backs by just switching the side covers. This would make the headphone a 1 for all