[Azsampako]

I’ve been wanting to upgrade but have no idea what to upgrade to. I have two pairs - m50x and shp9500(gift from a friend) driven by a dragonfly black. I’ve had them for around 5 years and they’re both great, but I’m starting to feel like I want something better. That I’m not content with them.

Just to clarify price isn’t a problem, I can afford high end ones IF they’re worth it. I don’t like spending lots of money on worthless electronics so that’s why Im not really a fan of TOTL products.

So my cans are both low end ones. I figured I could get a mid end one like a Sundara and call it a day. But given how much time I spend listening to music I thought it’s perfectly reasonable to get something more expensive like the edition XS. Even if the difference between them isn’t that significant the xs aren’t that ridiculously priced. So at that point I was looking at a 700$ headphone setup(that’s including an amp/dac). That’s a lot of money compared to my current headphones but if it is actually better it’s worth it to me.

I didn’t really think about high end headphones because I usually don’t get high end stuff. I wouldn’t get a higher end phone/tv/pc. But after roughly calculating that an hd 800s + amp/dac would cost me around 1600$ I started to wonder if it’s worth the price. If we abstract ourselves from the current headphone market and just look at that 1600$ price and what I’m getting then I don’t think that’s a bad offer. That’s considering the hd800s do sound amazing and are build really good and would last long.

But here’s the thing irl we’re not abstracted from the headphone market and if that 700$ setup offers 90% of the sound quality of the high end one I see no reason to buy the senns. Also another concern I have is longevity. I’m a bit sceptical of hifiman build quality and the fact that the hd800s is notoriously well built is a big advantage. So theoretically if the senns last twice as long, it’s pretty obvious what’s the better deal.

I’m not necessarily deciding only between the aforementioned headphones. It’s what I found to be the best headphones for orchestral in their respective price brackets. I’m open to other suggestions!

 

[SmitherineBoss]

It really depends on exactly what you are looking for since everything really comes down to preference. At this price point (honestly nearly any price point) I would look at the used market. You can easily get a good jds labs element generation for $200ish, probably cheaper which handles your electronics. You could alternatively go fiio or schiit, but I've always had better experiences with JDS labs. Headphones are a bit tough. If you want really good dynamics and guitars, something like a sennheiser 6xx will be all that you need, or you can get a focal elex if you want to spend a bit more. Planars offer a bit better low end but can lose a bit of the slam in the bass if they do not have tons of power. A focal elegia might be good if you need closed back, or you can go with a used ananda.

All that said, if you want an extremely competent one headphones setup that does everything, the focal bathys can be found for about 600 used and that is a steal since you get an amazing headphone and a dac/amp combo all in one. Wired you have a pair of cans that competes with headphones in that pricepoint and it includes a dac, wireless you get something that really is just better than almost any other bluetooth cans out there.

One final note is that while TOTL headphones are ludicrously expensive, they are different. My diana V2 sounds nothing like my DCA aeon noire. Some higher end stuff is worth it if you have the money to spend, but the other stuff is amazing too, it just depends on what you want!

 

[gimmeheadroom]

I’ve been wanting to upgrade but have no idea what to upgrade to. I have two pairs - m50x and shp9500(gift from a friend) driven by a dragonfly black. I’ve had them for around 5 years and they’re both great, but I’m starting to feel like I want something better. That I’m not content with them.

Just to clarify price isn’t a problem, I can afford high end ones IF they’re worth it. I don’t like spending lots of money on worthless electronics so that’s why Im not really a fan of TOTL products.

So my cans are both low end ones. I figured I could get a mid end one like a Sundara and call it a day. But given how much time I spend listening to music I thought it’s perfectly reasonable to get something more expensive like the edition XS. Even if the difference between them isn’t that significant the xs aren’t that ridiculously priced. So at that point I was looking at a 700$ headphone setup(that’s including an amp/dac). That’s a lot of money compared to my current headphones but if it is actually better it’s worth it to me.

I didn’t really think about high end headphones because I usually don’t get high end stuff. I wouldn’t get a higher end phone/tv/pc. But after roughly calculating that an hd 800s + amp/dac would cost me around 1600$ I started to wonder if it’s worth the price. If we abstract ourselves from the current headphone market and just look at that 1600$ price and what I’m getting then I don’t think that’s a bad offer. That’s considering the hd800s do sound amazing and are build really good and would last long.

But here’s the thing irl we’re not abstracted from the headphone market and if that 700$ setup offers 90% of the sound quality of the high end one I see no reason to buy the senns. Also another concern I have is longevity. I’m a bit sceptical of hifiman build quality and the fact that the hd800s is notoriously well built is a big advantage. So theoretically if the senns last twice as long, it’s pretty obvious what’s the better deal.

I’m not necessarily deciding only between the aforementioned headphones. It’s what I found to be the best headphones for orchestral in their respective price brackets. I’m open to other suggestions!

A pair of 800 S and a good DAC should cost you at least 2.500 euros. Depending on what music you like, 800 S might not even be a good choice.

Diminishing returns is a thing with almost anything you can buy. A 10.000 euro setup does not sound 10X better than a 1.000 euro setup. There is no way to make that kind of calculation anyway.

What you (should) get with more expensive gear is better design, better build quality, better service, replacement parts availability, better connectivity, and better sound... not necessarily in that order. And at some point, whether the sound is better (more to your liking) or just different becomes something you have to deal with.

 

[HBen]

There's basically only one way to find out: listen yourself! Go to a decent headphone shop - even if it's kind of far away - and listen to as many headphones as you can.
Bring your own music and if possible your own DAC/amplifier etc. since system synergy is pretty important. I highly recommend against buying expensive audio gear blind (= without listening).

Yes, diminishing returns are high in the headphone game but in my opinion those last few percent really matter a lot when it comes to listening pleasure.
Sound signature can be changed somewhat by stuff like DAC's, tubes, EQ etc. but one thing that cannot be adjusted is the ability to reproduce transients. That's why - at least in my opinion - the best headphones on this planet are pretty much all electrostats or planars with extremely thin foils.

Since you mentioned the HD800(S): price/performance wise still one of the best headphones over 1k. I even much prefer it over the utopia.

Personally I'd go test some STAX setups, buy what you can afford and be happy ever after
I bought a 007 for 1000$ used and still think it is one of the best headphone purchases I've ever made (price/performance wise that is).

All the best on your headphone journey

 

[gimmeheadroom]

 

[BrokeAudiophileMan]

I’ve been wanting to upgrade but have no idea what to upgrade to. I have two pairs - m50x and shp9500(gift from a friend) driven by a dragonfly black. I’ve had them for around 5 years and they’re both great, but I’m starting to feel like I want something better. That I’m not content with them.

Just to clarify price isn’t a problem, I can afford high end ones IF they’re worth it. I don’t like spending lots of money on worthless electronics so that’s why Im not really a fan of TOTL products.

So my cans are both low end ones. I figured I could get a mid end one like a Sundara and call it a day. But given how much time I spend listening to music I thought it’s perfectly reasonable to get something more expensive like the edition XS. Even if the difference between them isn’t that significant the xs aren’t that ridiculously priced. So at that point I was looking at a 700$ headphone setup(that’s including an amp/dac). That’s a lot of money compared to my current headphones but if it is actually better it’s worth it to me.

I didn’t really think about high end headphones because I usually don’t get high end stuff. I wouldn’t get a higher end phone/tv/pc. But after roughly calculating that an hd 800s + amp/dac would cost me around 1600$ I started to wonder if it’s worth the price. If we abstract ourselves from the current headphone market and just look at that 1600$ price and what I’m getting then I don’t think that’s a bad offer. That’s considering the hd800s do sound amazing and are build really good and would last long.

But here’s the thing irl we’re not abstracted from the headphone market and if that 700$ setup offers 90% of the sound quality of the high end one I see no reason to buy the senns. Also another concern I have is longevity. I’m a bit sceptical of hifiman build quality and the fact that the hd800s is notoriously well built is a big advantage. So theoretically if the senns last twice as long, it’s pretty obvious what’s the better deal.

I’m not necessarily deciding only between the aforementioned headphones. It’s what I found to be the best headphones for orchestral in their respective price brackets. I’m open to other suggestions!

You can't just look at the price and sound quality of headphones. You have to look at the measurements too. You have bassy headphones. HD800's are not bassy. The bass is definitely there but they aren't going to thwack bass into your ears like M50s. You have to look at the graphs for the frequency response of various headphones and you also need to find out if they work with the kind of music you listen to. If you listen to, for example, mostly smokey vocals modern jazz like diana krall, YES! Get the Sundara you'll love them. But if you listen to EVERYTHING you'd be better served by something like Focal Clear. If you want something with a bit more bass that is planar and costs the big bucks maybe LCD2 Classic but planars are for the most part not as "fast" as a good dynamic driver which can cause issues with some kinds of music. Don't cheap out on the amp and DAC. It's about more than just power. For HD800s I'd be looking at something like a Fiio K9 bare minimum. If you want to get something like Sundaras or HD600s/650/660 , get the Fiio K7 (I really like the Fiio K amps they sound just right to me-- but that's the problem, sound is subjective. I might love headphone A with amp B and you might hate those and like Headphone C with amp D and then I listen to your stuff and I hate your stuff and you might hate my stuff.
Basically what I'm saying in a drawn out way is find a hifi or headphone shop a reasonable distance from you and go listen to as much stuff as you can. Make a day of it if you can. Sit there and try everything. Listen to music you know well, listen to as many genres as you can. See what sounds right to you.
And remember, cheap doesn't=bad headphones and expensive doesn't=good headphones "automatically". I'd say Shure 840A's are 2x better than Audioquest Nighthawks were and they cost like 1/3 as much. Etc etc. Mid-Fi and Hi-Fi are a quagmire. Judge with your ears.

 

[tomb]

I’ve been wanting to upgrade but have no idea what to upgrade to. I have two pairs - m50x and shp9500(gift from a friend) driven by a dragonfly black. I’ve had them for around 5 years and they’re both great, but I’m starting to feel like I want something better. That I’m not content with them.

Just to clarify price isn’t a problem, I can afford high end ones IF they’re worth it. I don’t like spending lots of money on worthless electronics so that’s why Im not really a fan of TOTL products.

So my cans are both low end ones. I figured I could get a mid end one like a Sundara and call it a day. But given how much time I spend listening to music I thought it’s perfectly reasonable to get something more expensive like the edition XS. Even if the difference between them isn’t that significant the xs aren’t that ridiculously priced. So at that point I was looking at a 700$ headphone setup(that’s including an amp/dac). That’s a lot of money compared to my current headphones but if it is actually better it’s worth it to me.

I didn’t really think about high end headphones because I usually don’t get high end stuff. I wouldn’t get a higher end phone/tv/pc. But after roughly calculating that an hd 800s + amp/dac would cost me around 1600$ I started to wonder if it’s worth the price. If we abstract ourselves from the current headphone market and just look at that 1600$ price and what I’m getting then I don’t think that’s a bad offer. That’s considering the hd800s do sound amazing and are build really good and would last long.

But here’s the thing irl we’re not abstracted from the headphone market and if that 700$ setup offers 90% of the sound quality of the high end one I see no reason to buy the senns. Also another concern I have is longevity. I’m a bit sceptical of hifiman build quality and the fact that the hd800s is notoriously well built is a big advantage. So theoretically if the senns last twice as long, it’s pretty obvious what’s the better deal.

I’m not necessarily deciding only between the aforementioned headphones. It’s what I found to be the best headphones for orchestral in their respective price brackets. I’m open to other suggestions!

Buy the combo. If nothing else, you're getting what's still the best world-class headphone available and as you say, the most dependable in that class.

Yeah, the HD800 can be finicky with amplifier choices and your offer with DAC-Amp is probably not optimum as DAC-Amps go. The HD800 deserves a proportional investment in an amplifier, but you can save up to do that later, meanwhile enjoying the HD800.

Two things make the HD800 superior (IMHO) to every other world-class headphone:

1. The HD800 is hands-down, the headphone with the most soundstage on the market. This is optimum for your desire for orchestral listening. Soundstage cannot be "modded" into a headphone in any way. You can increase it slightly with certain tubes in tube amplifiers (or very special solid-state amps), but the headphone either has the soundstage capability or it doesn't.
2. The HD800 is one of the easiest headphones to equalize. A certain company has made a business on offering scientifically-based equalization for the HD800. This ability to equalize can stand in for less-than-optimum amplifier performance, while you save your money for the future amplifier you probably really need.