[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver I think the only think apple has that has kept it leader saleswize is apples marketing. I am saying this because others players are superior to it, in many ways. That is not to say that the ipod's are bad players, because they are actually very good players. The problem is the fact that there are players that although slightly better, fail because of their poor marketing in comparison to the marketing for the ipods.

Subjective.. Cnet rates the 5th as the best DAP on the market. Cnet getting paid off from Apple? All marketing.. 5th Ipod has best frames rates from Video.. Line out of ipod is best in class or very close to it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -Most people usually say the ipod's success comes from it's ease of use, and seamless integration with it's software. The philips HDD6330 is easier to use, and has an even more seamless integration with it's software (WMP which is even already installed by default). If you wish to buy music online this player comes with software that installs napster within WMP allowing for more ease of use (in a similar way as iTunes).

Again subjective.. most would say ipod UI is the easiest.
Reviews say you need two hands to operate the HDD6330, because of button placement.
Screen size 2 inches where ipod is 2.5.
Correct me if I am wrong it can't play video.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -Others say the success comes from the players physical appearance. While this is subjective, I agree most players don't look nearly as nice, however, the philips HDD6330 is again better in this regard. No, wonder it has been named by many (including myself) as the sexiest DAP ever.

Seems to be pushing HDD6330, when orginally you said there were many models better then ipod.
There are many complaints about the touch-sensitive interface of HDD6330.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -Others say the success comes from the sound quality. The new ipod has a pretty good sound quality, but most people think sound quality is the amount of bass that can be produced. As is known all ipods, but the shuffle suffer from a roll off at the low frequency.

Wrong 5th Gen doesn't have bass rolloff issue.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -Some may say the success comes from the features. It is a very underfeatures player.

Where on the facts.. What other player are you talking about.. Basically the Hatoraid is flowing at this point
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -Some say it has the perfect balance between functions, and simplicity. The Hdd6330 has more functions, is is also simple.

Again pushing the same model where are the other DAPs better then Ipod.. It is so simple you at times need two hands to operate.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver -The reason I think this player is leader is the combination is because this player is the jack of all trades master of none + it has very good marketing to back it up. The philips is the same, except for it's bad marketing. Other players like the H300 from iRiver, on the other hand are masters in regards to sound quality and features (IMO), but are bad in offering a steep learning curve for the non technical user.

Mostly honest comments but still H300 having better SQ again is subjective..

H300 - Poor UI, slow loading, no "on-the-go playlist", can't view pics and music same time. let me subjective for a minute, it is ugly.

 

[Mr Iriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany Subjective.. Cnet rates the 5th as the best DAP on the market. Cnet getting paid off from Apple? All marketing.. 5th Ipod has best frames rates from Video.. Line out of ipod is best in class or very close to it. Again subjective.. most would say ipod UI is the easiest. Reviews say you need two hands to operate the HDD6330, because of button placement. Screen size 2 inches where ipod is 2.5. Correct me if I am wrong it can't play video. Seems to be pushing HDD6330, when orginally you said there were many models better then ipod. There are many complaints about the touch-sensitive interface of HDD6330. Wrong 5th Gen doesn't have bass rolloff issue. Where on the facts.. What other player are you talking about.. Basically the Hatoraid is flowing at this point Again pushing the same model where are the other DAPs better then Ipod.. It is so simple you at times need two hands to operate. Mostly honest comments but still H300 having better SQ again is subjective.. H300 - Poor UI, slow loading, no "on-the-go playlist", can't view pics and music same time. let me subjective for a minute, it is ugly.

I am not only talking of the 5g ipod. Actually the 5 gen ipod though not the greatest DAP IMO, I find to be a very good player for the money for what it offers. iPods were popular before the 5g ipod. Of the points I have made the only point that I think also applies to the 5g ipod is where I mention the bass roll off. The 5g ipod did improve the bass in comparison to other ipods, but it still suffers from a bass roll off. Compare it to an ipod shuffle, the H120, H320, all which don't suffer from any roll offs and you'll se a slight, yet noticeable difference.

As for how simple the philips is, it is simpler to use than the ipod offering a shortcut menu with the press of a button, allowing the user to change playmode, sound settings, and other settings. On the ipod you have to go back to the main menu to do this instead of simply pressing one button to get to the menu, and to leave the menu.

The H300 UI is not the easiest to learn to use, but once mastered it also has shortcuts for changing the settings. The UI also look nicer than that of other players.

Most of this is of course IMO.

 

[Chef Medeski]

Now, if the question is why has the music industry failed to stem piracy?

Its simple price. At $.99 per song as on iTunes, my music library would cost me roughly $4,500. That not only is more than I have ever seen in my life at one time, but is ridiculous for songs that come in at a low bit rate(the only good reason for not pirating) and aren't flexible at all. However, if I wanted crystal clear sound and flexibility I could buy CDs. Well for $20 a CD, lets see 333 x 20 = $6,660. Thats even more, if you think thats too much. At $15 it would still equal a whopping, $4,900, which is about equivalent to the price per song.

Now, I buy all my CDs at $10 or less. So, if I was able to find all of my CDs, it would be merely $3,330, but still way too much. I just odn't have that much money to invest in music at this point.

Now, to let you guys know what I do right now. Between multiple friends and myself we share the few purchased CDs. How it works. Well, I buy a CD. I digiize it on my computer in lossless, anyone who wants it comes here with their iPod or takes it off my iPod. Thus everyone in the network recieves the album. By not buying the same CDs, we can gain a formidable library by just buying a few. Each of us inves a couple hundred odllars in CDs, which helps build our nearly $5,000 sum. Genius, not as much as I think just helpful.

Now, if CDs were $5 or less, which while still being $1750 to pay for, is much more manageable because I waste the same amount of money one eating lunch everyday. I mean, $5 a CD would measure roughly 1/3 the price per song for iTunes, but if that meant no CDs, I would be fine with that. But, is that maneagable? Well, I'm no recording expert, but I know one thing the cost for recording a CD is dropping real fast. As the era of digital recording emerges, the price for equipment to record has dropped to nearly $2,000 for a base system. Trust, me I have one that I hobbled together for $1,500. Now, studios are still recording analog, which costs hundreds of thousands of dollars. I believe this is contributing to the steep price of CDs. Well that plus the distrubition system of CDs is obviously costly. I mean I can easily find $10 jazz CDs at my local music vendor, however thos ehave been sitting there for years before the price reduction. THe whole distrubition chain costs money. The only reason online prices aren't cheaper, is because they don't want to destroy CD sales. But, if you deleted distrubition costs, CD costs, and just factored in cheaper digital recording with online distrubition. I think it isn't hard to fathom, the price of a CD dropping significantly. And once it passes the $5 threshold, I think piracy will drop off completely.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef Medeski Now, to let you guys know what I do right now. Between multiple friends and myself we share the few purchased CDs. How it works. Well, I buy a CD. I digiize it on my computer in lossless, anyone who wants it comes here with their iPod or takes it off my iPod. Thus everyone in the network recieves the album. By not buying the same CDs, we can gain a formidable library by just buying a few. Each of us inves a couple hundred odllars in CDs, which helps build our nearly $5,000 sum. Genius, not as much as I think just helpful.

I don't think that admitting to illegally pirating music on a Head-Fi forum is a very good idea at all. It's not good for you, and it's not good for Head-Fi.

 

[Chef Medeski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel I don't think that admitting to illegally pirating music on a Head-Fi forum is a very good idea at all. It's not good for you, and it's not good for Head-Fi.

Its been said before. And I'm not stealing anything. I'm backing up my friends music on my computer because he doesn't ahve a computer w/ a 200GB HD.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef Medeski Its been said before. And I'm not stealing anything. I'm backing up my friends music on my computer because he doesn't ahve a computer w/ a 200GB HD.

Right.

 

[rextrade]

Better watch out--apparantly we are forbidden at head.fi to even periphally discuss something that may or may not be illegal, but that record companies won't approve of, or that could somehow theoretically cause record companies to make less money, even if not illegal.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Iriver I am not only talking of the 5g ipod. Actually the 5 gen ipod though not the greatest DAP IMO, I find to be a very good player for the money for what it offers. iPods were popular before the 5g ipod. Of the points I have made the only point that I think also applies to the 5g ipod is where I mention the bass roll off. The 5g ipod did improve the bass in comparison to other ipods, but it still suffers from a bass roll off. Compare it to an ipod shuffle, the H120, H320, all which don't suffer from any roll offs and you'll se a slight, yet noticeable difference. As for how simple the philips is, it is simpler to use than the ipod offering a shortcut menu with the press of a button, allowing the user to change playmode, sound settings, and other settings. On the ipod you have to go back to the main menu to do this instead of simply pressing one button to get to the menu, and to leave the menu. The H300 UI is not the easiest to learn to use, but once mastered it also has shortcuts for changing the settings. The UI also look nicer than that of other players. Most of this is of course IMO.

There isn't a bass roll off with 5th ipod. Shuffle isn't neutral in the bass. So can't use this as neutality.

As for GoGear, to cost about the same as the 30 gig 5th Ipod and doesn't do video. I can't see that DAP picking up much market share. Ipod is the gold standard, so the price of the phillis has got to be quite a bit lower. And the player should do video. Also the player is bigger then 60 gig ipod, never the less the 30 gig. I think it is a pretty good looking unit. But really think any companies going against Apple will have to offer much more value for the price then ipod to get people to jump ship. Because of many things. You can take the Ipod back to the Apple store, Ilounge forum, and aftermarket (cases, batteries, car adaptors, ect.) You were almost had it right before saying it is the marketing. But, It isn't the marketing, Apple holds the "market".

 

[root]

Well, the 5th gen ipod does suffer from bass roll-off as all the previous units. There is no doubt that Apple has improved the overall sound of 5th gen (being the best ipod nowadays), but all the problems have not disappeared. It is a fact.
ipod 5th gen has a bass roll-off issue, similarly to X5 in the lower frequencies (<50Hz).
I wonder how the new Kenwood will compare SQ-wise to existing DAP's.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisfromalbany You were almost had it right before saying it is the marketing. But, It isn't the marketing, Apple holds the "market".

Oh, but it IS the marketing. The iPod is so popular because Apple has a phenomenal marketing department and a good product to work with, and they have the market cornered because they continue to make people want that product. The iPod wouldn't be nor would it remain as ubiquitous as it is in the MP3 player hierarchy if it weren't for Apple's marketing genius.

 

[Istasi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel Oh, but it IS the marketing. The iPod is so popular because Apple has a phenomenal marketing department and a good product to work with, and they have the market cornered because they continue to make people want that product. The iPod wouldn't be nor would it remain as ubiquitous as it is in the MP3 player hierarchy if it weren't for Apple's marketing genius.

I agree with this point. But if they have such excellent marketing, which is leagues ahead of the rest, don't they deserve the spot as top dog?

 

[CookieFactory]

Quote:

Originally Posted by root It is a fact. ipod 5th gen has a bass roll-off issue, similarly to X5 in the lower frequencies (<50Hz).

That may well be true. However I would like to see links/sources first.

 

[The D]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY What if you want to navigate by genre? What if you want to select just pop CDs published after 2001?

Who cares? You act like you don't even know what music you have.
I don't need to be able to know the publishing date of Cds, I know what music I have, when it was published, what songs I like more than others ect.
All in my head.

I don't need something to tell what music I should listen to.

 

[Mr Iriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Istasi I agree with this point. But if they have such excellend marketing, which is leagues ahead of the rest, don't they deserve the spot as top dog?

At least apple is not like BOSE. BOSE has the smartest marketing ever though. They are able to make people think, their overpriced earphones are the best for the money, or even that they are the best of the best. Why they are different when they are both great at marketing?

Apple:

iPod= good product with similar value for the money as competition. (5g at least) (Competition: Samsung, Philips, Toshiba, MPIO, Reigncom, Cowon, archos...)

BOSE:
BOSE= Good products with frustratingly pathetic, horrible! value for the money when compared to competition. (Shure, Etymotic, Sennheiser, Beyer...)