[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as any of us knows, it's 45 degrees and a little ways ahead of your chin. infinitesymphony: You're right about the singing in front of loudspeakers thing. At this point it's becoming obvious to me that all these differences are subtle enough to ignore, but better to know than to not know, correcto? So performance-wise, the Beta would be preferable and have relatively less pickup from the speaker almost directly behind the singer? We don't have a chorus yet, so most uses will be between a single vocalist and a single mic. Interestingly enough, the Shure website lists the 57 (both SM and Beta) as instrument mics and both 58s as vocal mics. Seems pretty clear at this point.

I wasn't asking about the working angle, I was asking about the working distance. Some microphones exhibit great reach and some do not, and this is irrespective of pickup pattern or acceptance angle. I would glad to give you some recommendations if you'll give me the working conditions. The Sure Beta mics all have poor working distance so they're ok for individual performers who are individually using the mics, but they're a bad choice for micing choral groups working at any distance. There are much better mics for that purpose.

 

[joneeboi]

I think 3" to 8" sounds about right; nothing over a foot.

infinitesymphony: Can you explain those graphs a bit more? I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing the idea. When you say "holding the mic to the side," do you mean the mic is horizontal to the face? And for the graphs, 0 degrees means I'm standing in front of a completely vertical mic? And anything inside the round function portion is what the mic picks up?

 

[Joeywhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think 3" to 8" sounds about right; nothing over a foot. infinitesymphony: Can you explain those graphs a bit more? I'm having a bit of trouble visualizing the idea. When you say "holding the mic to the side," do you mean the mic is horizontal to the face? And for the graphs, 0 degrees means I'm standing in front of a completely vertical mic? And anything inside the round function portion is what the mic picks up?

Think of the graph as if you are above the mic looking down, and the mic is facing north. So 0* (*=degrees) means you are directly in front of the mix, or directly north. The shape you see depicts how well the mic will pick up sound from different directions. With a super cardioid mic, you can see that the mic will pick up sounds at 180* as well, although not as well as right on axis (0*). If you were to speak into the mic at 45*, it will not sound the same as if you were speaking at 0*.

And all this is in reference to the mic being held directly towards the source. This means the "top" of the mic, if you were to stand it up long ways.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you say "holding the mic to the side," do you mean the mic is horizontal to the face?

Singing into the side of the microphone, basically... For example, if two people wanted to sing into the same microphone, the quality of both vocals would suffer due to their angles from the center of the microphone.

Joeywhat covered the rest.

 

[joneeboi]

Thanks for the explanation, Joey; it helped clear up a few things. But from what I'm understanding, that means if I hold so that the bottom is pointing to the ground and the mic part is in front of my mouth, if I spin the mic around, keeping the bottom facing the floor, then that will also change the sound? And judging from infinitesymphony's response, then there should be an indicator that tells me what 0 degrees is, right?

 

[Joeywhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the explanation, Joey; it helped clear up a few things. But from what I'm understanding, that means if I hold so that the bottom is pointing to the ground and the mic part is in front of my mouth, if I spin the mic around, keeping the bottom facing the floor, then that will also change the sound? And judging from infinitesymphony's response, then there should be an indicator that tells me what 0 degrees is, right?

OK, put the mic in your mouth the only way it will fit, so the business end is completely inside (don't actually do this...just think it). Pull it out until it's just outside your mouth, and that's 0*. If the mic were to be standing on end, and you speaking into it it would be off axis. If you were to put that mic on it's side, then talk directly into it that way it's on axis.

Just look at this pictures. They are more or less singing directly into the mic (on axis).

Yes, that's an amazingly poor picture, but I think you get the point.

If she were to turn the mic to the left or right of here head, it would be off axis. If she were to move the mic up or down (over her head or towards her chest) that would also be off axis. Speaking directly into the back off the mix (like speaking right into the cable, basically) would be 180* off axis.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thanks for the explanation, Joey; it helped clear up a few things. But from what I'm understanding, that means if I hold so that the bottom is pointing to the ground and the mic part is in front of my mouth, if I spin the mic around, keeping the bottom facing the floor, then that will also change the sound? And judging from infinitesymphony's response, then there should be an indicator that tells me what 0 degrees is, right?

Imagine the mic is a flashlight. When the beam is shining directly down your throat, you're at 0 degrees on axis.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinitesymphony /img/forum/go_quote.gif The supercardioid pattern also has a rear lobe; the microphone will pick up some noise from behind (though this is not likely to matter, since the audience won't generate much noise).

Though it may matter if you're using floor monitors, as the supercardioid may be more likely to feed back than the cardioid.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs /img/forum/go_quote.gif Though it may matter if you're using floor monitors, as the supercardioid may be more likely to feed back than the cardioid.

Ooh, good point... I'm not a live sound guy, so I didn't think of that one. It's a definite consideration. I guess some churches are large enough to need floor monitors.

I imagine that at some point, almost everyone in a live situation will want to incorporate some kind of active feedback destroyer/eliminator/filter (depending on brand

), or an equalizer with fine control.