[joneeboi]

We're looking for some new microphones at my church for worship that are younger than 20 years old, so they're mostly for vocal purposes. I know the dynamic Shure SM57/58 are highly touted for just about everything, but I'm told the 57 needs a preamp (how do those even work?). Either way I don't think we have one. Condensers seem to be preferred for vocal applications, which introduces the rub:

Should I go for the workhorse Shure 57 or get a good value condenser?

 

[Joeywhat]

I'd get the Shure Beta 58A. Overall a decent vocal mic, and it can take a good beating. I think all in all it would be wiser to get a durable mic as there will probably be a lot of people handling the mic that aren't aware of how to properly handle one. It's also typical to mount those mics on shock mounts, although it's not necessary.

Ultimately a large diaphragm condenser will give you better quality, but this is for church, not a major label recording session.

I've used the MXL 990 condenser, and it's alright...it can be had for well under $100. Just remember that condenser mics need phantom power, unless it's an electret mic. I think I saw it going for $50 a while back at guitar center...you'll probably be happier with the beta 58.

 

[Joeywhat]

I should also mention that if background noise is an issue you might want to consider the SM series (namely the 58, I'm not particularly fond of the 57 for vocals).

The Beta series has a super cardioid pattern, while the SM's have cardioid. I think in terms of sound quality you'll like the Beta 58, but if you have a ton of background noise that shouldn't be amplified, then go wit the SM.

Also remember that sound quality is only as good as the weakest piece of hardware.

 

[Redo]

SM57 is great for loud guitar amps and a good beating. SM58 would be a better choice for vocals.

In any case, good mics require mic preamps. So factor that into your buying decision from the get-go.

 

[joneeboi]

What is necessarily involved with mic preamps? I plug the mic into the preamp, plug the preamp into the mixer?

 

[Febs]

You shouldn't need a separate pre-amp for the SM57 or the SM58.

 

[xmetal2001]

All mics(yes, this is a generalization) need a pre-amp. The signal from them is just way too low. You will need a preamp to get it up to line level. Mixers have preamps built in(again, a generalization). If your mic's worked before, that means that a 58 should work fine. Of course, like almost all mics, it's an XLR output from the mic.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is necessarily involved with mic preamps? I plug the mic into the preamp, plug the preamp into the mixer?

Does your Mixer have a mic preamp? It should. SM57's and 58's are dynamic, so you don't need phantom power or anything.

 

[joneeboi]

Our current mics have plenty of headroom in terms of volume, so I'm just going to guess the preamp's already in there.

And what is this phantom power business?

 

[Joeywhat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Our current mics have plenty of headroom in terms of volume, so I'm just going to guess the preamp's already in there. And what is this phantom power business?

Certain microphones (most condenser types) require power to operate. Some of these mics (called electret) have a permanent charge.

Dynamic mics (and ribbon) don't need this because of how they work. Dynamics work like a speaker, only backwards. They move a voice coil, which is placed around a magnet. This creates a voltage difference. No power required.

Ribbon mics literally have a very thin ribbon made of aluminum (or some other metal) between two magnets. Same concept as dynamic mic.

Condensers work by capacitance. One side of the capacitor is a small piece of metal that acts as the diaphragm. There needs to be voltage across them, hence why power is needed. When the diaphragm vibrates, it changes the distance between the two plates, thus changing the voltage.

If you have no problems reproducing the sound with these mics I imagine a pre amp is present. There is probably one in whichever mixer you are using. It may actually support phantom power, you just didn't notice. Look for a "+48v" switch somewhere.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif We're looking for some new microphones at my church for worship that are younger than 20 years old, so they're mostly for vocal purposes. I know the dynamic Shure SM57/58 are highly touted for just about everything, but I'm told the 57 needs a preamp (how do those even work?). Either way I don't think we have one. Condensers seem to be preferred for vocal applications, which introduces the rub: Should I go for the workhorse Shure 57 or get a good value condenser?

What is your working distance going to be? Are you mic'ing individual singers or choral groups? Do your vocalists know how to work a microphone?

 

[infinitesymphony]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeywhat /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Beta series has a super cardioid pattern, while the SM's have cardioid. I think in terms of sound quality you'll like the Beta 58, but if you have a ton of background noise that shouldn't be amplified, then go wit the SM.

Supercardioid microphones have a narrower pickup pattern than a cardioid, which means that they would pick up less background noise, so the Beta series might be recommended for this application. Especially because people in churches have a tendency of using the microphone right in front of a pair of loudspeakers.

I don't think I've ever seen a condenser mic used in a church, and you definitely won't want to use one if the microphone will be passed around or held.

 

[Crazy88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs /img/forum/go_quote.gif You shouldn't need a separate pre-amp for the SM57 or the SM58.

X2

Your mixer should already have a preamp in there already. The SM57 and SM58 are actually the exact same mic, just a different screen. Although this screen will affect the sound quality. But if you were to remove the screen, they would sound exactly identical unless one or both were already banged up (as they often are) because they are built to be workhorses in live sound settings. For Vocals the 58 is likely your best choice because they were designed with vocals in mind, hence the screen it has.

If you were to use a couple of them at a distance for a whole chorus perhaps removing the screen wouldn't be too bad of an idea, you would get a brighter more natural sound. But for those purposes I would perhaps entertain an omni-directional mic, but I don't know how those would do in a live setting. I primarily work in recording studios, so it's a completely different environment than live sound.

I hope this helps.

 

[joneeboi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif What is your working distance going to be? Are you mic'ing individual singers or choral groups? Do your vocalists know how to work a microphone?

As far as any of us knows, it's 45 degrees and a little ways ahead of your chin.

infinitesymphony: You're right about the singing in front of loudspeakers thing. At this point it's becoming obvious to me that all these differences are subtle enough to ignore, but better to know than to not know, correcto? So performance-wise, the Beta would be preferable and have relatively less pickup from the speaker almost directly behind the singer?

We don't have a chorus yet, so most uses will be between a single vocalist and a single mic. Interestingly enough, the Shure website lists the 57 (both SM and Beta) as instrument mics and both 58s as vocal mics. Seems pretty clear at this point.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Either one will probably be fine... One thing about supercardioid that should be mentioned is that while it does have a narrower pickup pattern, its off-axis response is colored--if a singer holds the microphone to the side, the frequency balance will change. The supercardioid pattern also has a rear lobe; the microphone will pick up some noise from behind (though this is not likely to matter, since the audience won't generate much noise).

Cardioid:

Supercardioid:

The choice is yours. Most people go with the SM58 for live vocals, but since your situation is non-standard in that the singers are in front of the speakers, I'd trade possible off-axis feedback for some extra coloration and go with the Beta 58.