[David222]

I’m in the same boat David, loving the Orchid for years now but haven’t found a decent replacement without having to morgage my house! Which DAC did you finally go for? I would love to find a battery driven « transportable » DAC to replace my Orchid because I like to listen to music in different spots, I use a Woo WA8 amp for that purpose but the internal ESS based DAC does not give me the same satisfaction as when I sit down at my desk and connect it to the Orchid. Thanks.

I've never heard an ESS architecture that sounded natural / timbre to my ear. If I was practicing the dark arts of delta-sigma - i'd likely bank on an AKM chip. Very subjective commentary (of course).

I have a balanced Pagoda and I heartily recommend it. Transparent, layered, dimensional, and textured.

I never got around to testing the Pagoda - the balanced Pagoda seems to make (much) more sense - if one was considering vs. Orchid.

If Single-Ended is the game, I'd think the Orchid remains the unbeatable price-to-performance ratio.

 

[DavidK35]

General question.
Does anyone have an opinion on tube rolling from the 5670/2C51 series of tubes Vs 12AU/T/X series with adaptor?.
Not concerned about which model MHDT you have, just the tube itself.
In general do you rate the 2C51/396A higher or lower than 12AU/T series purely in terms of SQ with these particular DAC's

 

[Pharmaboy]

General question.
Does anyone have an opinion on tube rolling from the 5670/2C51 series of tubes Vs 12AU/T/X series with adaptor?.
Not concerned about which model MHDT you have, just the tube itself.
In general do you rate the 2C51/396A higher or lower than 12AU/T series purely in terms of SQ with these particular DAC's

This won't be a diect answer:

• I rolled a good NOS WE396jw in place of the Orchid's stock tube. As I recall, no adapter needed. It was a definite upgrade
• A year later on someone's recommendation I rolled a Mullard CV5331 (equivalent to 6DJ8) in place of the WE396jw. This tube required an adapter. It was another definite upgrade, to the point that I stopped looking

Never tried a 12AUX with the Orchid.

So my vote is a CV5331 + adapter.

 

[Jbucla2005]

I have the Havana and have rolled the DAC chips and tubes. I changed the stock PCM56P to AD1856 and it made the sound more clear and detailed. The best tube for this DAC imo is the JJ 6386 LGP. It's not cheap but it's so much better than all the 5670's, 6922's, and 6SN7's I've tried. It's very balanced and detailed and has good bass. The 6386 tubes are used in the classic Fairchild tube compressors, which were used to produce some great records (like Blue Note jazz records, for example.)

 

[Loftprojection]

I have the Havana and have rolled the DAC chips and tubes. I changed the stock PCM56P to AD1856 and it made the sound more clear and detailed. The best tube for this DAC imo is the JJ 6386 LGP. It's not cheap but it's so much better than all the 5670's, 6922's, and 6SN7's I've tried. It's very balanced and detailed and has good bass. The 6386 tubes are used in the classic Fairchild tube compressors, which were used to produce some great records (like Blue Note jazz records, for example.)

Interesting, I've been on a WE396A for quite a while after trying out several different tubes. If you have tried this tube, how would you summarize the difference with the JJ6386LGP? I'm tempted to order one but as you say, it's quite expensive! . Thanks

 

[Jbucla2005]

Interesting, I've been on a WE396A for quite a while after trying out several different tubes. If you have tried this tube, how would you summarize the difference with the JJ6386LGP? I'm tempted to order one but as you say, it's quite expensive! . Thanks

I tried a few WE396A’s a while ago but they weren’t exceptional tubes for me, if I remember right they were a bit thin sounding, but maybe mine weren’t good ones. I believe they were later incarnations of the tube which are not as famous? Anyway, the smaller signal tubes like 5670 tend to be brighter with less bass. The 5670’s that I use were made by Raytheon, GE, and RCA. The JJ 6386 is a bigger tube with more bass. It’s not as bassy as a 6SN7, though. The sound is balanced and detailed (the most detailed tube I've tried,) but maybe a little “boring” compared to say, the Electro Harmonix 6922 which is a little brighter and more “tubey” (creamy.) The EH6922 can be a pretty enjoyable tube though, if you like a lush tube presentation, and is pretty low-cost.

 

[Loftprojection]

I tried a few WE396A’s a while ago but they weren’t exceptional tubes for me, if I remember right they were a bit thin sounding, but maybe mine weren’t good ones. I believe they were later incarnations of the tube which are not as famous? Anyway, the smaller signal tubes like 5670 tend to be brighter with less bass. The 5670’s that I use were made by Raytheon, GE, and RCA. The JJ 6386 is a bigger tube with more bass. It’s not as bassy as a 6SN7, though. The sound is balanced and detailed (the most detailed tube I've tried,) but maybe a little “boring” compared to say, the Electro Harmonix 6922 which is a little brighter and more “tubey” (creamy.) The EH6922 can be a pretty enjoyable tube though, if you like a lush tube presentation, and is pretty low-cost.

Hey thanks for all this info, mucho appreciated. I guess I'll have to try this JJ6386 but before I'll get myself a EH6922 because I'm a sucker for lush, silky and other qualifiers like those!

 

[Loftprojection]

Ho another question. I'm no expert with tubes and MHDT lists these on their site:

"Tubes can be used: 5670, 2C51, 396A, 6385, 6CC42, 6854, 6N3, 6854, CV2575, CV4013, CV5894, CV8247, CV2381"

So to use the EH6922 or JJ6386, did you buy some kind of adapter? You also say it's bigger, did you have to modify the Orchid's top panel?

Thanks again

 

[cats4cans]

Ho another question. I'm no expert with tubes and MHDT lists these on their site:

"Tubes can be used: 5670, 2C51, 396A, 6385, 6CC42, 6854, 6N3, 6854, CV2575, CV4013, CV5894, CV8247, CV2381"

So to use the EH6922 or JJ6386, did you buy some kind of adapter? You also say it's bigger, did you have to modify the Orchid's top panel?

Thanks again

The 6922 type is small enough to fit through the existing hole, but sticks out because of the adapter and it’s a taller tube. I used an an adapter from Garage 1217, but there are others. You can also use a 6SN7 with a different adapter but then you’d need to either remove the cover or make the hole larger.

Edit: if you want to see pictures, look at my Orchid ad. One has the adapter sitting next to the unit with the stock tube installed, and another with a 6DJ8 tube sticking out.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I started my tube roll journey on the Orchid by replacing the stock tube with an NOS WE396jw tube. Immediate & obvious improvement in sound. Not a huge improvement, but audible.

A year or two later someone suggested I try a Mullard CV5331 tube, which is the military/industrial version of the 6DJ8 tube used in many preamps. This tube can't plug into the Orchid's tube socket, so I picked up an adapter. Got another immediate and obvious improvement in sound, better and more nuanced than the 1st attempt. I'm not messing with that tube any more (that is, unless it burns out).

 

[DavidK35]

The 6922 type is small enough to fit through the existing hole, but sticks out because of the adapter and it’s a taller tube. I used an an adapter from Garage 1217, but there are others. You can also use a 6SN7 with a different adapter but then you’d need to either remove the cover or make the hole larger.

Edit: if you want to see pictures, look at my Orchid ad. One has the adapter sitting next to the unit with the stock tube installed, and another with a 6DJ8 tube sticking out.

"or make the hole larger"

Thats exactly what I did. Initially to accomodate a 7AF7 tube + adaptor which worked great for a while, but then had a run of bad microphonics with
the same tubes and am looking for alternatives as they seem to be too unreliable. In my madness I also experimented with the 6C8G + 2 adaptors + riser
so virtually the whole thing stood above the lid and bigger hole. Worked fine but could not tell the difference between that and the 7AF7. Plus it was too tall
and clashed with the bottom of my TV. I have now ordered an adaptor for 5670 tube to 5814A tube since I use those in an amp and sound fine in that. Hence my enquiry.
Experiments continue. ATM using my 1 and only WE 396A NOS so will keep that in place until I cannot. i.e. they are too expensive now and the 5814A I have a plentiful supply of and will be curious to compare to the 396A.

 

[Loftprojection]

Wow you guys are tube geeks, hahaha. Ok so I have to go shopping for a tube or two and adapter. I'm excited to have a tube stick out above the top of my Orchid producing even more luscious and delicious sounds! hahaha

 

[Pharmaboy]

In my madness

great post!

 

[cats4cans]

I think there was an option to get a premium tube when I bought mine, but $100 for a NOS tube I had never heard of was a bit steep. In retrospect it may have been a bargain. I didn’t care for the stock 5670 so it only lasted about a week. An Amperex 6DJ8 wasn’t expensive and gave it a lot more body. That’s what I used mostly. I did try a 6SN7 but it was with stacked adapters with the cover off. Made me nervous even if I liked the sound. If you really go down the rabbit hole there are a whole bunch of other mods I’ve read about, mostly capacitor upgrades.

 

[Pharmaboy]

I think there’s was an option to get a premium tube when I bought mine, but $100 for a NOS tube I had never heard of was a bit steep. In retrospect it may have been a bargain. I didn’t care for the stock 5670 so it only lasted about a week. An Amperex 6DJ8 wasn’t expensive and gave it a lot more body. That’s what I used mostly. I did try a 6SN7 but it was with stacked adapters with the cover off. Made me nervous even if I liked the sound. If you really go down the rabbit hole there are a whole bunch of other mods I’ve read about, mostly capacitor upgrades.

You just gave me an idea. I have a pair of NOS ('60s vintage) Amperex "Bugle Boy" 6922s I bought as "upgrade" tubes for my Woo WA3 OTL tube amp. I didn't know diddly about tubes at the time and greatly overpaid by buying them from Woo (live & learn).

I haven't used those tubes in several years because I moved onto other, better input tubes (+ adapter) for the WA3. So one of these days, just for Ss & Gs, I could replace my Orchid's NOS Mullard CV5331 with one of the Bugle Boys, using the same adapter the CV5331 uses. WTH, worth a try.

• I believe the Mullard is generally considered a somwaht better tube than a BB in circuits designed for the 6DJ8/6922 tube ... but this isn't one of those circuits. Moreover, this tube is used as an output buffer, which is rather different than line-level amplifying.

Thanks for getting me to think this through. And FWIW, I would never run my Orchid with the cover off. Too much like running with scissors, in my book...