[HeadFierUsername2022]

Hello,


I am trying to dive deeper than the T1' s I have from Beyerdynamic, and someone I know said they'd lend me the Elites with a silver braided cable for a couple of weeks to test them. I have tried them, on a SS and I have to confess, to my ears they sounded too clinical and nothing that added them a personality for me to love the songs I was given a chance to listen to (although from Vinyl) , and definitely not for the price the guy was asking.
I was searching for closed Headphones to add to my wall, but unfortunately I can't get my hands on some ZMF's to test.


My system is:

Formats are Flac or WAV Audio from computer, output via Optical to Violectric DAC V800 then passed on via Balanced output (non Brand cables) to Feliks Audio Elise Mk. 1 with standard Tubes.

Genre Listened to (when I get the time and bug) would be all over the place:

Rock- think Pink Floyd, Metallica, Psycroptic, Sepultura, Tool, Korn,Coal Chamber, Mogwai, ect.
Electro and alternatives- Yosi Horikawa (Bubbles or Letter f.e. ) , Kerala Dust, Mari Bonie, Faithles, Flight Facilities, ect.
Hip Hop and alternatives- Classics like Wu Tang, Gasoline, FatFreddy's Drop, Tyler the Creator, Tricky, Run the Jewls, ect.
Jazz- Antiphon, Erik Truffaz, Avishai Cohen, Swindle (Miss Kane until now) , ect.
Country, folk, blues, punk and alternatives- The Devil makes Three, The Kill devil Hills, Leon Bridges, Michael Kiwanuka,The Teskey Brothers, John Cooper Clarke, The Prodigy, Junior Kimbrough, Janis Joplin, Shovels & Rope, Dawing Rawlings ect.


Questions:

1. Will the Amp. give good signal/ sound reproduction at such low Impedance?
2. What Tube would you recommend (not in the realm of half a thousand to a thousand per pair) ?
3. Based on the list of Artists/ Genres, would the ZMF VC be a better alternative and keep the Open Backed T1' s?




Thanks for your time and all the best!

 

[msing539]

Elites ... sounded too clinical and nothing that added them a personality for me to love the songs I was given

I'm honestly quite surprised to see this comment about the Elite. From my perspective, they're big on personality and lack all but the highest level detail, and bring a musicality to them that I haven't heard in other totl open or closed backs. I'm not questioning your perspective, we all hear differently.

To that end, yes, I think a VC might be a better fit for your preferences. It's imho a better headphone for rock, jazz, and country. ZMF headphones generally sound quite natural and realistic, so I feel they excel at real music.

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

Hello,


yeah, I didn't have the chance to test them with my music, as I was at a HiFi convention and the focus of the guy was his HiFi System + Speakers with his music, SS amp, ect. . As I said, will get a pair to test with my System, and see if they are as some people critique them, 1000+ $ headphone audio quality and 4000$ build and comfort.
I will give them back afterwards and just search for a pair of good VC, if it doesn't work out.


Thanks for your time!

 

[ckhirnigs113]

I don’t think the Elise is a good match for the Elite. In general, OTL tube amps are rarely recommended for planar headphones, even very efficient ones such as the Elite. The Elise is a better fit for a high-impedance dynamic like a ZMF, such as the Verite Closed.

I’ve owned lots of ZMFs over the years, and I have found I prefer the Elite. I think your setup will be great with a VC, but I might look to try the Elite with another amp before giving up on them.

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

I don’t think the Elise is a good match for the Elite. In general, OTL tube amps are rarely recommended for planar headphones, even very efficient ones such as the Elite. The Elise is a better fit for a high-impedance dynamic like a ZMF, such as the Verite Closed.

I’ve owned lots of ZMFs over the years, and I have found I prefer the Elite. I think your setup will be great with a VC, but I might look to try the Elite with another amp before giving up on them.

Hello,


So which Amp would you say is a good match?


Thanks

 

[ckhirnigs113]

I’m using and enjoying a Cayin iHA-6 at present. I used a Quicksilver Headphone Amp before and found it to be a great match as well. I have the new Schiit Mjolnir 3 on the way to me presently. I haven’t heard it yet, but I expect it might end up being my new solid-state amp of choice.

If you read through the Elite thread, there are lots of amps owners have used and enjoyed. It really depends on the price-range you’re looking at and your preference for tubes or solid-state.

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

I’m using and enjoying a Cayin iHA-6 at present. I used a Quicksilver Headphone Amp before and found it to be a great match as well. I have the new Schiit Mjolnir 3 on the way to me presently. I haven’t heard it yet, but I expect it might end up being my new solid-state amp of choice.

If you read through the Elite thread, there are lots of amps owners have used and enjoyed. It really depends on the price-range you’re looking at and your preference for tubes or solid-state.

Hello,

Thanks for the reply.
I can't find a decent priced Amp from the ones you' ve mentioned, and I don't plan on splashing as it's just in test phase.

Actually I haven' t gone through the Elite thread, as I wasn't planning on buying another Open Back, but rather the VC. I just came across a review of them where they said to forget the Verite's (Open) . I searched for direct comparisons of the two (VC vs Elite) but no luck, and as I said, nobody neaby wanting to lend them.

You mention it depends on my price range and preference. My preference is as stated, tubes. Why wouldn't the Elise be enough for the Elites?


Thanks again for your time and advices

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

I just received them.
Holly, lots of soundstage. And they do love the Elise.
Comparing them to my go to T1 2nd gen:

Tools Vicarious: from 0:46 (hard drums) to 1:20 when the vocals enter
T1: Drums are muffled, but hit harder, but are quickly `suffocated` . The Elites have more details, you can hear the drumstick completing it's movement, you hear it from the bottom to the top. The vocals from 1:00 , for the T1 are not as present. In the Elites is smoother, starts sooner and it holds better. Swapped with the Alcanatara Pads, the soundstage become flatter, not as punching, but still above the T1, less detail in my ears in mid highs and highs.

Avishai Cohen Seven Seas: on the T1's I mostly heard the start of the base, which is ok cause it is predominant, but with the Elite's I catch the finer details of the High Pitched instruments, there's more music there.

Yosi Horikawa- Letters: T1's start darker and you can feel like the pen is pressed harder, but with the Elite's everything is crisper, as if I am there.

Rodriguez Crucify Your mind- Beter sepparation voice to instrumental., and again more detail.


Don't know if they are worth the price, but they are great until now. We' ll see with some tube rolling.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

Hello,

Thanks for the reply.
I can't find a decent priced Amp from the ones you' ve mentioned, and I don't plan on splashing as it's just in test phase.

Actually I haven' t gone through the Elite thread, as I wasn't planning on buying another Open Back, but rather the VC. I just came across a review of them where they said to forget the Verite's (Open) . I searched for direct comparisons of the two (VC vs Elite) but no luck, and as I said, nobody neaby wanting to lend them.

You mention it depends on my price range and preference. My preference is as stated, tubes. Why wouldn't the Elise be enough for the Elites?


Thanks again for your time and advices

Most OTL amps are designed to deliver their peak output performance into high-impedance loads and also have high output impedance. They usually work best with high-impedance dynamic headphones, like a ZMF or Sennheiser. This is not to say that a low-impedance planar can't sound good with a high-output impedance OTL amp. It sounds like you're enjoying what you hear with the Elise/Elite combo so far. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that!

I have owned 4 different Verite Closed models over the years (Manchurian Ash, Olive, Resin Stabilized, and Blackwood). It's a headphone I have trouble resisting when I see a really beautiful one pop up for sale. I personally think it sounds much better with tube amps versus the solid-state amps I've tried it with over the years. There are lots of Elite owners that prefer it with tube amps, but almost all of them are using transformer-coupled models, not OTLs.

 

[msing539]

I own the Elite and have heard it on multiple amp/dac combos. On some, I just didn't love them... one example was the Questyle CMA Fifteen. Excellent dac amp, I just didn't find it to be a good pairing.

Personal preference, but I like the Elite more off my iCAN Pro than the A&S Kenzie.

But it goes beyond the amp--the dac plays a huge role, and I enjoy the Elite more on R2R dacs than chip based counterparts.

 

[ckhirnigs113]

I had my first listen last night with the Mjolnir 3 paired with my Yggy A2. It seems to be a great combo with the Elite, but I need more time with it to see just how good it is.

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

Hi together,

Thanks for the reply, but as stated, I never planned on a SS for my setup.
I will have to see if I manage to snatch a recommended one from the threads at a good price in the testing time limit.
If not, I will wait to snatch them cheaper in 2- 3 years.


I have a HK970 for my speakers, but it ain't for Headphones dedicated (I can' t find the specs for the Headphone output) , and although the music is more predictable in quality, more clinical, more soundstage in my ears, I do like tube packing it differently, with more personality, tightness not as much soundstage (marginally) , but not that much that it makes the song something else or nothing compared to my other headphones (at least for rock) , and I think 4000k is enough of a spending in an economic crisis. I seriously doubt that even a SS will make the Headphones 6 times better than my current Open back- that's not to take anything from their qualities.

Best way to compare the Elise to the HK970:

The song from Tyler the Creator- Garbage for example. It start with bass beat. In the SS is sharp, a certain amount of frequencies. It' s like listening to a decent recording (although from youtube) , and it gets to 0:30 where vocals go parallel with the beat- far bigger separation, like the vocals have a carved placed in the beat. On the Elise it's the same amount of frequencies and quality, but everything (frequencies) it's compressed to go through a slightly smaller `hole` to say so, and that's why the might overlap/ overflow and muffled eachother at some points, but they complement each other, more laid back

The Song Rodriguez Cold Facts- the start sounds far better in my ears on the Tubes. It's a song with personality in my opinion, more romantic and the tubes do it justice, making it less clinical, less `carved spaces` (from above) inbetween the different Vocals and indstruments. It's a beautiful `poem rhyming together` .

Will continue investigating and document (nobody asked, I know) .


Thanks again!

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

Anyone from you had experience with the Unison Research SH?

https://unisonresearch.com/en/prodotti/sh/


By the specs, it should drive well the Elites, or am I seeing it wrong?

SH​

Overview​

Unison Research’s unrivalled ability with Single-Ended valve designs is well known around the world. The SH is the company’s first headphone amplifier to benefit from such extensive knowledge and ability.
The SH uses a Single-Ended Class A design with only two stages and a passive volume control. The classic refinement of the valves combines with modern technology found in the internal USB DAC to produce something truly stunning.

USB DAC SPECIFICATION
Asynchronous USB interface compliant to USB 2.0 Audio Class
Accepts PCM up to 384kHz and DSD up to 128x
Resolution up to 32 bits
Last generation ESS Sabre DAC with jitter eliminator circuit
Galvanic isolation between USB interface and conversion circuit
Low phase noise clocks which reside in the “clean” supply domain to preserve low jitter performance
110dB SNR (@ 1kHz, “A” weighted, 192kHZ) 0.008% THD+N (@ 1kHz, -3dBFS)

Tech spechs​

• Maximum output voltage (THD 1%) : output “High sensibility” 0.5 V/150 ohm, 0.45 V/33 ohm, 0.4 V/10 ohm output “Low sensibility” 1.5 V/150 ohm, 1.2 V/33 ohm, 0.65 V/10 ohm
• Frequency Response: -0.1 dB @ 10Hz / 3-dB @ 50 kHz (output “Low sensibility”, 33 ohm load)
• Input impedance: 20 kohm // 100 pF
• Sensibility: 0.67 V in/ 0.33 V out (output “High sensibility”, 10 ohm load) 0.67 V in / 1 V out (output “Low sensibility”,33 ohm load)
• Input stage: Pure Class A, ECC83/12AX7
• Output stage: Class A, 2 EL84 triode connected
• Inputs: 1 line RCA, 1 USB
• Outputs : 2 (parallel connected)
• Feedback factor: 16 dB
• THD: < 0.2% @ 1kHz, 0.5V, <0.8% up to 1 V (output “Low sens.”, 33 ohm load)
• Absorption: 45 W
• Dimension: 22,5 cm x 12,6 cm x 32,2 cm
• Weight: 6 kg
  
  
  
• General results
  
  Output Impedance: 1.62 ohm
  
  Characteristics for the high quality mode
  
  Power and voltage for 32 ohm : 4.32 mW/ / -8.6 dBV
  Power and voltage for 300 ohm : 4.55 mW/ / 1.4 dBV
  Recommended Headphones
  In-Ear or Tablet headphones: 18 - 553 ohm
  Over-ear headphones: No recommendation, Amp is too quiet
  
  Maximum
  
  Power and voltage for 32 ohm : 77.67 mW/ / 4.0 dBV (the Elise is rated to 20 mW, if I am not mistaking)
  Power and voltage for 300 ohm : 9.05 mW/ / 4.3 dBV
  Recommended Headphones
  In-Ear or Tablet headphones: 8 - 1007 ohm
  Over-ear headphones: 9 - 52 ohm
  
  

Thanks in advance

 

[HeadFierUsername2022]

To revive a bit the thread.

Would the Cocktailaudio HA500H be an improvement (noticeable) to my current system?



My system is:

Optical to Violectric DAC V800 then passed on via Balanced output (non Brand cables) to Feliks Audio Elise Mk. 1 with Standard/TUNG- SOL/ CBS Tubes


Thanks