AudioAndCoffee
100+ Head-Fier
k7 is not a good match .. had it for a while. the clarity from k7 is not on par with meze.
Meze Audio 109 Pro
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Interesting, so you are saying the k7 isn't resolving enough?
True for IEMs, but not over ear headphones.
Amazon will also take IEMs, so little risk really
unknownuser
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In my country it's not just IEM, anything that is touching hair, skin. It's really stupid, you can return pants but not a headphoneTrue for IEMs, but not over ear headphones.
Amazon will also take IEMs, so little risk really
But as I said, not sure if in practice they are indeed not doing it.Also interested why your experience was this, based on the K7 thread there are even more resolving headphones paired with this with good results.
Hello, did you get the NDH -30?
I already have the 109 pro, but I want to know more about the NDH 30...especially against a very good headphones like the 109
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Yep! I just finished writing the notes for my 3 way comparison between 109 - NDH 30 - Modhouse Argon T60RP. Gotta go take the 109 to the post office to return right now, tho. BRB...
So here are my general thoughts, and specific notes on 4 songs. Might do a full review/comparison on these later, in longer format...
Meze 109 "Pro" vs Neumann NDH 30 vs Modhouse Argon T60RP:
[NEUMANN NDH 30]
- Impressive general definition and separation/layering/placement. The sense of *natural* 3D space this headphone creates is one of its wow-factors. The generally clean & controlled rendering of sound across the frequency range is its 2nd wow-factor. Any audio with spatial depth(music, movies, games, personal video/audio environmental recordings) will sound engaging with these.
- Some non-specific fatigue exists at higher volume, probably in the lower treble, likely due to driver congestion / lack of effortlessness during complex audio. More fatigue than Hook-X(practically fatigue-free).
- Smooth, warm and controlled general sound character. Not overly smooth or warm to detract from being a very enjoyable experience. Most obvious areas of concern are the lack of detail/resolution(not a huge issue, IMO), and lack of treble effortlessness.
- Bass has impressive reach, definition, and physicality. Nicer bass than I've heard in many headphones.
- Vocals sound generally excellent and realistic, but can be slightly bright(Ozzy). Better vocals than most headphones I've heard.
- Electric guitars and drums are both rendered nicely, with palpable tactility, bite, grunt & body.
- Seems best for less technically complex audio(acoustic), or audio that isn't regularly utilizing the entire frequency range, where the drivers can breathe. Also very good for lower volume listening, where details are still very clearly heard.
- Seems worst for complex, loud, and brighter(including vocals) audio. Background sounds seem to be limited in volume when additional sounds are added on top of them.
- Comfort is nothing special with large, round cups & pads. There is a good, snug fit with the super durable headband & sliders. Some adjustments will be needed over wearing time, but I think they are wearable at least a couple hours at a time. The pad material and cushion are very 'Sennheiser'(if not exactly the same).
P.O.D. - Thinking About Forever (definition/control, space & imaging, vocals)
Santana - One Chain (clean guitar, space & imaging)
SOUNDED PROBLEMATIC:
Rob Zombie - Cease To Exist (lower treble fatigue)
[MEZE 109]
- Very metallic, shiny, detailed and somewhat thin sounding. More clarity & detail, and less general bass & spatial depth, than NDH 30, with more brightness added than bass lost. I am not fond of the lack of bass and spatial depth, and am absolutely not fond of how metallic & shiny these sound.
- Bass has a clean, sub-bassed focus, with more rumble(and less texture) than NDH 30.
- Fatigue is less present than on NDH 30, but the overall sound is much brighter and shinier.
- Driver control is certainly better than NDH 30, with no apparent congestion or volume limitation quirks.
- Comfort is very good, though I'm not so fond of the pad material.
- Seems best at strings, sub-bass, separation in complex material, presenting crisp, metallic details.
- Seems worst at bright content, tonal accuracy, mid-bass focused material.
? (strings) (sub-bass is detailed and dynamic/elastic) (dynamics)
SOUNDED PROBLEMATIC:
Most material, but no disaster issues like treble spikes, bass rolloff, dead or unnatural spatial presentation. Avoid bells, triangles, all high treble.
[Modhouse Argon T60RP + Xenon leather pads(*sounds better than Xenon suede and Xenon vegan leather)]
- The most odd sounding of these 3, with a slightly sunken/muted tonality, and not very good technical performance or coherency. Much less metallic and bright than 109, with more sub-bass, general bass and warmth.
- Equal fatigue to 109, or very slightly less.
- A lot of things in the treble sound artificial, especially acoustic instruments.
- Vocals are nice, and closely focused.
- Comfort is a bit rough, with so much hot, thick padding, but could be much worse.
- Seems best at classical or acoustic, or bass-focused material.
? (never did; only an average experience at best. No wow-factors(s))
SOUNDED PROBLEMATIC:
? (no disaster issues; tonality and artificial sound are worst offenses, then the spatial presentation)
=====================================
The Amity Affliction - All I Do Is Sink (666kbps waterproof .MP3 lossless import)
NDH 30 > 109 / T60RP
(no notes)
Owl City - The Saltwater Room (38" vinyl hardcopy)
NDH 30 > T60RP > 109
- T60RP: Vocals sound natural, but none of the background bells or drums do. Bass is present, but lacking detail. Some spatial depth noticed.
- 109: Guitar sounds good and very clear. Vocals and background details are way too bright... No noticeable spatial depth.
- NDH 30: Softened & rounded compared to 109. More bassy, natural, spacious/open, and better balanced than both.
Pink Floyd - Coming Back To Life (860,000,000,000MBps half-FLAC Japan import rip)
(tie)
- T60RP: Guitar sounds tubular. Good detail and bass balance. Less detailed than 109, but more than NDH 30. Vocals sound good, but not great. The least fatiguing headphone, when additional instruments are added.
- 109: High detail. Much better at rendering air than NDH 30. Vocals too bright. Spatial depth rather vague. Fatigue increases when instruments are added.
- NDH 30: Guitar sounds great, and palpable. Not very good at rendering a black background in fine treble air during lingering/decaying instrument notes. Added instruments increase fatigue. Ever-present sense of space. Good balance.
Santana - You Just Don't Care (0.017kbps .WAV Yellowbook original Master hardcopy, 1 of 1 in existence)
NDH > 109 > T60RP
- T60RP: Odd tonality. Slightly muffled/dark or treble cut. OK sound overall.
- 109: More cymbal and guitar treble emphasis. Guitar sounds more isolated to left side than NDH and T60RP; I don't like how this hard left mix sounds on 109. A brighter rendering than T60RP and NDH, but not better than NDH.
- NDH 30: Good space and definition/control. Vocals sound distinctly slightly to right side and a bit distanced. Guitar is closer than vocals, and slightly fatiguing on high notes. A better rendering than T60RP.
Camille Saint-Saens - Danse Macabre:
109 > NDH 30 > T60RP
- T60RP: Good bass levels and spatial depth. Kind of cardboard-toned. Imaging seems odd and unnatural. This is the most inferior rendering, due to tonality and imaging issues, and the least controlled/boomiest bass.
- 109: Very clean, controlled and decently spacious(not quite realistic/convincing). Triangle and block hits a bit overly bright. Nice, tactile strings. Clean brass. Timpani sometimes weighty, usually not. Good definition of subtle background instruments. A good rendering.
- NDH 30: Nice note weight/body to subtle background instruments. Detail rather vague compared to 109, but much smoother. Tone and spatial presentation are very good. Dynamics not as noticeable or as strong as 109.
CONCLUDING THOUGHTS:
NDH 30 is the best sounding to me ~8 times out of 10, and I'm not sure which other headphone may win(or tie?) the other 2 times. The T60RP is significantly inferior sounding, and NDH 30 is seemingly significantly more durable. Neither 109 nor NDH 30 are perfect/"perfect", nor are they problem-free, even at such prices of $799 and $650. I have returned the 109, and can see myself returning/selling the NDH 30, but coming across a headphone with 2 wow-factors is quite rare. I'm very happy the NDH 30 doesn't have a terrible spatial presentation like HD600. This is a headphone I can jump into and continually be impressed by, unlike the other 2, even with its shortcomings. Do I even like the NDH 30 more than my $240 Hook-X or $299 FD5..? Don't know yet, but the NDH does have some special qualities. Do I like it more than HD660 and Vokyl Erupt? Yeah, I'd say so. Not sure where to go from here, but it will probably get back to IEMs for a bit, then ZMF Caldera and/or a Warwick. (Some of my previous, recent disappointments include HE6seV2, XS, AWAS, 99 Classic, HE400se, HD560S, LCD-X 2021. I have some fondness for HD660, Vokyl Erupt, LCD-4, KSC-75)
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Wow, looking forward to reading your thoughts on these. Sounds like the 109 Pro's did not make the cut.
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Posted above ^
Seems like you gotta spend over $2K to get what you really want, with headphones, sadly.
Ahh, it must of came through will I was making my post. Good job!
Sonic Defender
Headphoneus Supremus
No you don't. That is an audiophile myth in many ways. While you can have a great sounding $2000 headphone you can also have a great $300 headphone. The idea that spending more yields these massive sonic benefits is thin on evidence. The point of diminishing returns is very often quickly passed in audio, certainly in headphones.
Your list of recent disappointments includes some very well received headphones that many people love. All that suggests is that like all of us, you have your preferences. Your hits could be a total miss for other people, but I know that you know that and I am not suggesting you are implying otherwise. But seriously, that is just not a fact that the more you spend the better things sound. Sometimes it will be and sometimes it won't be, and it will always interact with the subjective preference of the user.
And to boot, with boutique headphones with exotic, wood finished cups, absolutely some of the money, probably a lot of it is going into aesthetics and craftmanship which while they have a psychological impact on how much we like something, they don't always have any impact on sonic quality so you can spend plenty of money without really improving the sound quality. Money spent to performance gained is far, far from a linear relationship.
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Well, I haven't come across that one yet! I have explored a lot of the sub-$1000 world(never to find something truly amazing yet), but not much of the $1000+ world. Therefore I can only assume higher pricetags solve these problems, with more technical & resource capabilities. Stax L300 was a nice experience, but I bet L700/007/009 are really something else.
Sonic Defender
Headphoneus Supremus
Absolutely. Still, I have read literally tens of thousands of reviews and impressions in my lifetime, plus owned quite a bit of audio gear. It is so common to find one person praise something and then soon after find somebody who doesn't agree. I wish that it was always as simple as the more you spend the better things get, because if it was, I would simply find the middle ground in the pricing lineup and rest assured that what I am missing out on, is very, very little. Sadly, that just isn't always true. Look at the HSU HB-1 MK2 you own, those are not at all expensive, but they seem to measure quite well and I have read from several people who subjectively like them quite a bit.
I have seen very expensive speakers measure poorly and not sound great so just so little evidence that higher prices always yield improvements. IMO.
Each person is entitled to their own impressions. The 109s are not perfect but they are good enough for my ears at that price. Your views are yours and most definitely entitled to you. No debate from me. I like them and there are too many priorities in my life to go higher in price. I still like my Sigvas and Grado’s as well. I can only hope you find something you like so you can enjoy the great gift of music. ( of your choice)
I wonder if pairing warm like headphones with typically warm tubes is a good match. Might sound different with leaner amp/dac.
I have some tube amps but haven’t paired with 109s. May try soon.
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