[betula]

Yea but the MG is a bit different than the OG, isn't it? I only had the opportunity to hear the MG.

I only heard the Clear OG, Elear and Utopia from Focal. The Elear was one of the most uninteresting and off-tuned headphones I have ever heard.
I can see the appeal of the Clear or Utopia, but they are simply not for me. Bright/occasionally metallic treble with lacking bass extension compared to TOTL planars.

 

[Ichos]

I can see the appeal of the Clear or Utopia, but they are simply not for me. Bright/occasionally metallic treble with lacking bass extension compared to TOTL planars.

Agreed, the Clear Mg though is better in this respect, fixing the metallic tone and I don't know about the new Utopia.

 

[Ichos]

Anyway, they have finally arrived...

 

[betula]

Anyway, they have finally arrived...

I am looking forward to your review. I presume you will review the 109.

 

[catom]

I only heard the Clear OG, Elear and Utopia from Focal. The Elear was one of the most uninteresting and off-tuned headphones I have ever heard.
I can see the appeal of the Clear or Utopia, but they are simply not for me. Bright/occasionally metallic treble with lacking bass extension compared to TOTL planars.

I think this is getting back to my original point. Things are highly subjective. We're trying to assign some sort of quality that's already hard to measure to a dollar value. So I took this process with some broad strokes. Large orders of magnitude.

For example, is a $2,000 pair of headphones twice as good as $1,000? That was my sole question during CanJam.

Again, for me? No. A notable difference yes, I'm not saying I couldn't tell. Even not side by side. Hours later. Yes, I can tell the difference...but worth that in cost? Nope. Resolve also mentioned this in his video -- it's what people are willing to pay...so that's where we are. Headphones I see are going up and up and up for TOTL. "Ooh look at what DCA just did with the Stealth/Expanse. I bet we can also raise our price to the same level for the next model we release." They're taking notes here and it kinda feels like a game of "how far can we push it?" To me.

So it's a bit refreshing to see a new entry in the $800 range that is serving up some good competition.

Or flip this whole thing on its head. Want the best value? Buy headphones on clearance or buy them used.

 

[Resolve]

it's easily doable ... here's the base tuning for 109 pros :

Preamp: -5.8 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 65 Hz Gain -7.6 dB Q 0.55
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1900 Hz Gain 7.1 dB Q 1.99
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3718 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 6.00
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 6411 Hz Gain 3.2 dB Q 6.00
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2976 Hz Gain -5.6 dB Q 3.57
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 8344 Hz Gain 5.9 dB Q 2.03
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 52 Hz Gain 3.8 dB Q 2.85
Filter 8: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 0.70
Filter 9: ON HS Fc 10000 Hz Gain 3.6 dB Q 0.70
Filter 10: ON HS Fc 5000 Hz Gain -4.2 dB Q 0.40

Did you do this by ear? or was it to match a target. Because it should not be done to match the target for these reasons outlined here:

 

[adrianp]

Did you do this by ear? or was it to match a target. Because it should not be done to match the target for these reasons outlined here:

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 116 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 0.69
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 3759 Hz Gain -3.2 dB Q 6.00
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2022 Hz Gain 8.8 dB Q 1.36 -> midrange accuracy / shoutiness
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 8089 Hz Gain 4.2 dB Q 1.83 -> timbal accuracy / sibilance
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 2948 Hz Gain -9.0 dB Q 1.56
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 56 Hz Gain 1.4 dB Q 6.00
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 45 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 2.05
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 921 Hz Gain -1.9 dB Q 2.07
Filter 9: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 6.2 dB Q 0.70 -> bass
Filter 10: ON HS Fc 11000 Hz Gain -0.3 dB Q 0.40 -> airness

 

[betula]

I think this is getting back to my original point. Things are highly subjective. We're trying to assign some sort of quality that's already hard to measure to a dollar value. So I took this process with some broad strokes. Large orders of magnitude.

For example, is a $2,000 pair of headphones twice as good as $1,000? That was my sole question during CanJam.

Again, for me? No. A notable difference yes, I'm not saying I couldn't tell. Even not side by side. Hours later. Yes, I can tell the difference...but worth that in cost? Nope. Resolve also mentioned this in his video -- it's what people are willing to pay...so that's where we are. Headphones I see are going up and up and up for TOTL. "Ooh look at what DCA just did with the Stealth/Expanse. I bet we can also raise our price to the same level for the next model we release." They're taking notes here and it kinda feels like a game of "how far can we push it?" To me.

So it's a bit refreshing to see a new entry in the $800 range that is serving up some good competition.

Or flip this whole thing on its head. Want the best value? Buy headphones on clearance or buy them used.

Of course, it is highly subjective.
The 109 seems like a good value for money on the market even objectively. I am yet to audition them.

It is common knowledge that let's say above $1000 you pay more and more for less and less objective improvements. The sweet spot of value/price on the headphone market IMO still lies around $1000-1500 these days.

Anything you pay above this amount for a pair of headphones is objectively questionable. Yet subjectively you might be willing to pay twice the price for another 20% improvement. These percentages are hard to define as what we hear, what we value, what we are willing to pay for radically differs.

A $3000 headphone definitely doesn't sound twice as good as a $1500 one. But based on your ears/budget/circumstances/needs you might be happy to pay another $1500 for 20% improvement if it gives you ultimate joy and satisfaction.

 

[kRed]

Hey, some interesting discussion on this. I did a video a while ago on the limits of EQ that might be worth checking out to see how it factors into reviews. But in general, if something requires EQ above 5khz to be good, it's more deserving of scrutiny than say adding a bass shelf for example. The other thing is that I don't expect people to do it, so I still think tonality is critically important, if not the most important thing.

In the case of the 109 Pro, it's absolutely not EQ required by any stretch, and I only did that afterward with a very subtle adjustment to my preference.

I've watched that EQ vid at least twice, like almost any of your videos on the Headphone Show channel (some even thrice). You could say I am big fan of your productions.

Honestly my point was not about you as a reviewer or your usage of EQ (which of course, given you have the tools to measure the results, it's just on a different level) but more on the mindset it (supposedly) creates.
I think it changes the way one perceive the gear, as "raw performance" become quite more important and extractable.

To people who don't EQ, tuning is like 90% of the sound of an headphone, if not more. I'm sure you take this into consideration in your reviews, but in the end subjectivity is the meat of any opinion.

Hard agree on the all or nothing mindset that many people have, it's a real problem and it's part of the awful process of people attaching emotions on gear.

Well, the Clear OG is only like $900 I think, and the Elex is around $750 (Elear with Utopia pads in my case). That was my comparison point.

If only the clear og was available in my country at that price... it sells for 900 euros on the used market and there are very few around.

Anyway, they have finally arrived...

Looking forward to your impressions and, hopefully, a review!

 

[Resolve]

To people who don't EQ, tuning is like 90% of the sound of an headphone, if not more. I'm sure you take this into consideration in your reviews, but in the end subjectivity is the meat of any opinion.

Yeah, I do have to separate my own use case as best I can, with the recognition that most people won't be EQing things. But in a sense the toothpaste is already out of the tube once you've started making that distinction. With that said I also find it much easier to understand tuning from technical performance because I EQ things. It's a great way to better grasp the full picture of a product, and I highly encourage folks to get into it just to be able to make that distinction more easily.

 

[kRed]

Yeah, I do have to separate my own use case as best I can, with the recognition that most people won't be EQing things. But in a sense the toothpaste is already out of the tube once you've started making that distinction. With that said I also find it much easier to understand tuning from technical performance because I EQ things. It's a great way to better grasp the full picture of a product, and I highly encourage folks to get into it just to be able to make that distinction more easily.

I agree completely about the understanding part, as I started to really get a clear picture of tuning and details after i dedicated some few weeks on EQing my R70X ( i really did not like it's boomy and dark sound). I tried to make it sound close to a Sundara, it was quite an interesting journey, and really opened my eyes.

Maybe i lack the self-confidence to EQ, cause every time i go back to the stock tuning as it feels off.

 

[PopZeus]

My personal 109 Pro EQ based on my library and taste (no Q value because my DAP doesn't use PEQ):

preamp: -2 db
30 Hz: +2 db
60 Hz: +1 db
2k Hz: +2 db
4k Hz: -2 db
8k Hz: -1 db

It's all pretty subtle because the overall tuning is so close. Just a bit extra or shy in a couple of spots.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Agreed, the Clear Mg though is better in this respect, fixing the metallic tone and I don't know about the new Utopia.

I would never call Clear MG lacking bass extension either even comparing to bass heavy planars like LCD-X 2021.

 

[Ichos]

I would never call Clear MG lacking bass extension either even comparing to bass heavy planars like LCD-X 2021.

The Clear MG has the best bass in the dynamic drivers business!
Not because of the quantity - tuning but thanks for the suspended driver which adds a decaying and reverb never heard again from a dynamic driver.

 

[betula]

The Clear MG has the best bass in the dynamic drivers business!
Not because of the quantity - tuning but thanks for the suspended driver which adds a decaying and reverb never heard again from a dynamic driver.

What is "best bass"?

We all value different aspects of bass that makes it the best for us.
Extension? Definition? Control? Balance? Impact? There are best examples for all these aspects and best compromises too.
Personal preference is what matters. Personal preference is a combination of maxed out pros with minimised cons.