[Bill Ward]

I have a question.

There was mention in another thread to a summer discount on Meier amps. Is that still on, and where is it posted?

BW

 

[KenW]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Ward I have a question. There was mention in another thread to a summer discount on Meier amps. Is that still on, and where is it posted? BW

Discount?? Now that would be tempting. I've always had the itch to try one of Jan's amps but Todd still isn't doing PayPal and I was scared off by the whole international shipping deal. Duties, import taxes, etc. Yeah, I could do the credit card thing but the wife is ignorant of the costs in this "hobby" and I'd like to keep it that way!

Hey Jan...if you got a summer discount, I'm game.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc Excellent replies, Jan and Tyll. fwiw, i do not believe it is a good idea at all for manufacturers to 'gift' amps (or heavily discount them) to high-post-count members here to review. not a good idea at all. knowingly or, worse, unknowingly, the members in question are likely to have a bias for the headware in question by virtue of the fact that the manufacturer actually approached them. beta-test and give feedback with NDAs, yes. review, no. all strictly imo.

Well IMO why not offering the amps as loans for review, or send them to several meetings, instead of offering gifts or deals to get the reviews, it will be at least more close to an honest situation, and the reviewer has no real bias, as the amp at the end will return to the manufacturer...

 

[ampgalore]

Looking at this from a marketing standpoint.

Let's take the SR-71 for an example. I think the sale of the SR-71 has far outstripped the sale of Ray's other amps such as the HR-2 and the XP-7. Why is this?

1) With the proliferation of portable MP3 players, the market is now more focused on portability. Thus the success of the SR-71.
2) In addition, the SR-71 is hyped to be equal to the HR-2 and the XP-7 sonically, thus the supposed "credility."
3) Price point. Just under $400 for a brand new SR-71. This is about the same price as a high end Ipod. For better or worse, there is a perceived association between price and quality. If a consumer spends an equal amount on the MP3 and the amp, he values both equally.


Personally, I would not purchase another portable amp (unless of course a manufacturer gave it to me for free

), because:

1) A portable amp will NEVER have the same sonics as a stationary amp
2) The pot, yes, cheap small pots deteriorate over time. A cheap Panasonic pot that is a year old will probably sound significantly worse than a spanking new pot. The same thing is NOT true of the more expensive Nobel pots. These last much longer.
3) I really see no need for a portable amp, unless you want to listen to your HD600 while on the road, which I certainly wouldn't. If your amp is bigger than your MP3 player, plus you have lug around those bulky interconnects, what's the point of being portable?
4) A stationary amp has the room for much better power supply, much better parts. These cannot be matched by a portable amp, no matter WHAT the hype.



Anyway, for Meier audio. I would suggest the following.
1) Simplify the product line, eliminate all in between models.
a) A high end portable amp, priced around $350, using a quality Nobel pot.
b) A mid level stationary amp.
c) The prehead as the high end amp.

Simplifying the product line into 3 models has significant advantages on
1) Material cost, labor, etc.
2) Less choice gives the consumer a clearer picture of the distinction among the 3 models.


Anyway, these are my suggestions.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adhoc fwiw, i do not believe it is a good idea at all for manufacturers to 'gift' amps (or heavily discount them) to high-post-count members here to review. not a good idea at all.

I'd love to hear more thoughts on this subject. Let me state why I think it might be ethical:

First a very practical reason. If I were to ship someone a Micro for a meet, it probably costs me about $200 when I count the labor of Ivy and my time maintaining the relationship through the transaction. A Micro Amp or DAC costs me roughly $100 cost of goods sold (that means without sales, marketing, admin, ect burdened costs). So, if I can make my transaction to get Micros to show up at meets by putting them in the hands of a qualified enthusiast easier and it takes me less time to manage the loaner inventory, that's a good deal for me. If I can sell it to the guy for $200, then I'm at least paying for the trouble of getting it out into view.

I was very careful a moment ago when I said "a qualified enthusiast", let me elaborate. What I want is to put my product into the hands of someone who is a true connoisseur. These are people who know how to savor the various benefits and characteristics of headphones and headphone amplification. They typically talk about how they heard a certain product; and they typically don't simply say A is better than B---because it's usually not that simple when you are a connoisseur. Which brings me to another ethical issue point about getting gear out cheap: if by strategically getting gear into specific enthusiastsa hands gets you a fair shake at meets isn't it fair to let me as a manufacturer use the tools I've made and have at my disposal to try to encourage the market along? I haven't talked about this in a while, but the folks at Head-Fi have as much influence in the sales of headphones as the gadget editor at Time. Probably a LOT more! I think this is the single most influential centralized body influencing headphone sales worldwide. Certain members here have as much influence as some press. Why shouldn't I give members here that have as much influence as a writer the same kinds of discounts as writers?

In terms of the transaction influencing the persons impression of the product: I don't think that's as big a deal as you might think. The people I would try to get amps to are those who post very high quality comparisons. I don't think I'd ship product to mindless fanboys who just want to rant because those guys will eventually move on to some other FOTM amp and I'd be out an amp. No I would want people who could understrand the value sets that we've choosen and know how to use the product in that way. Mind you, this thing can backfire, too. The lower the price I sell a product to someone for, the more likely they would take the product for granted. It's much better for me to have someone invested in our product and still be satisfied.

These are difficult questions. I'd like to have open discussions about them. I'd like to see Head-Fi as a community mature in a positive way that begins to counterbalance fanboyism, and help turn those fanboys into enthusiastic and discerning headphone connoisseurs.

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens IThese are difficult questions. I'd like to have open discussions about them. I'd like to see Head-Fi as a community mature in a positive way that begins to counterbalance fanboyism, and help turn those fanboys into enthusiastic and discerning headphone connoisseurs.

That is the most salient point here. We are enthusiasts...not marketing tools or sales reps. There used to be a lot more "enthusiasm" before. For me, at least, this enthusiasm has been turned inwards. I am reluctant to post reviews or comments and I was recently turned off from posting pictures of a headfi meet because of the way that meet thread was headed (another fanboy thread).

There used to be a lot of enthusiasts around before. Now they either just lurk...or dont bother coming at all because of the narrow content focus. The DIY section is going backwards...I dont know...

Anyway...some good points coming up in this thread and I will be following the discussions with interest.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari There used to be a lot more "enthusiasm" before. For me, at least, this enthusiasm has been turned inwards.

I don't know if I really buy that, GS. I watch the board carefully, and while there is---a allways will be---a bit of wierdness, there are great things happening here. The meets I've been to have been fantastic. The members I've met have been 99% great folks with the very occasional "I'm not sure if this guy is a wierd-o or what". So I would assess the health of this forum as pretty top-notch. Poop happens, and not so nice stuff goes down, but I think open discussions like the one we're having will help keep things going nicely. Along those lines, thank you for starting this thread.

 

[Anders]

Tyll, I don't think giving away amplifiers as gifts is a good practice for reviewing. The example you give is somewhat manipulative because you argue from practical considerations about shipping and management costs that "justifies" this approach for a $200 amplifier. In effect, it would contribute to making the lines fuzzy. If it is OK for a $200 component it would be "almost" OK if it later done for $400 and then all up the scale.

Among the Head-Fi sponsors I can only find three amplifier manufacturers: HeadRoom, Meier Audio and Lehmann Audio. These companies are seldom mentioned in the forums and other brands much more often. Jude considers starting with AdLinks to finance Head-Fi. This means that companies can buy words and clickable references are then linked to the works in the text, for example the word amplifier in this text then could be a link that points to the advertising company's website.

Maybe this is the future: AdLinks, free equipment for persons who are selected for review by the manufacturers, discounts for loyal customers, faked reviews, fanboys acting as team supporters.

 

[gsferrari]

No Ray Samuels Audio or Singlepower on the sponsor's page? They obviously benefit BIG time from HeadFi. I may be out of line here in which case I dont mind if this post is taken down.

I see Headroom, meier, ttvj, audiocubes, shure...many more...

 

[stevieo]

jan,

i agree with most of what you said. i disagree about "being local". in the global world everything is local. i have received many amps from you over the past few years & the shipping time from germany to maryland was more often than not faster than expedited shipping times within the usa.

my Corda HA-2 has been a work horse & has served me well over the past few years & it has been used on a daily basis & sounds perfectly fine & i have never had a lick of trouble from it. i happen to like the build quality & looks. there have been advancements in amp building but they have not always proved to be beneficial. your Corda Ha-2 has withstood the test of time, imo.

the declining value of the dollar certainly does not help americans buy european goods & the interest in headphone listening has certainly increased in the time i have been visiting head-fi. this is evident by the increased number of amps available today. a few years ago there were but a handful of amp choices & now new offerings appear amost on a daily basis. the benefit has been increased interest in headphone listening, enjoyment & shear fun of listening to new offerings.

jan, you are a pioneer in this industry, your products are outstanding and above all you have always been an inovator & a gentleman beyond reproach. i continue to maintain that Meier Audio is a great company to to biz with. the product line is excellent, imo. there are no "dirty tricks" marketing practices and your products speak for themselves. you have always been most helpful, prompt & responsive in answering any questions i have had.

however, we would all still like to meet you in person at one of our stateside meets should you ever have the time & inclination to get here. our meets are a lot of fun. they are good times & generally attract a good bunch of people, that is if i can maintain my own behavior.

thank you for all you have done for the Head-Fi community and i look forward to your continued support & dedication to the sport of headphone listening.

 

[Anders]

I wrote amplifier manufacturers, TTVJ is a reseller as well as Audiocubes, Shure makes headphones etc.

 

[KJ869]

I dont own any Jan Meier's amp and have only bought my ultrasones time ago from him. I have listened some of his amps in meets and love them. His amps sound someways like they look, they are smooth, elegant. They dont jump to your eyes, the just smoothly seduce you. That might be the reason theres not mutch talk about them.

I have many times concidered ordering gilmore amp, but stopper for me is same as probaly for many europeans. We in the other hand cant realy test products like gilmore. Some cheaper amps and some better known amps do end up to our meets of course.

In finland at least theres not mutch specificated talk on headphones, but its suprising how mutch headphone likers there are in regular Hifi forums and how mutch they actualy know.

I dont agree on Tyll's arguement that selling the amp with discount just saves peoples money and dosnt have that mutch effect on reviewers opinion. First theres the fact that when you get something for 50% cheaper, you tend to compare the weaknesses to the price you paid, not to the regular price. I know we all have had that experiment when we buy somethin from bargainbin: "Product A is not as good as product B, it has this and that deflect but it was only 30% of product B's price!". Theres probaly studys made in socialpsycology that will give you some figures how mutch does the discounts and so on biase the review.

[Edited for crappy typing, and wording. Theres still lot of things wrong but its now barely readable]

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens I'd love to hear more thoughts on this subject. Let me state why I think it might be ethical...

imo, there is danger inherent in using 'amateurs' to review kit. having just woken up, i'm having a little bit of difficulty articulating myself clearly currently. BUT - i might not be able to post for the next few days, so i'll just have try my best now:

(i understand and know that this post will raise questions but provide NO answers - may i remind you that we live in a world of compromises and for some questions, unfortunately, there can be no answers that satisfy everyone. tyll, i apologise - i did not address manufacturer involvement specifically, but rather rambled on why i do not think member-reviews may be a really good idea in general.)

there are very very very few members here that can claim to have enough long-term experience with equipment to make them a 'valid' reviewer (ie take into account new-toy syndrome). plus, imo, when you reach a certain level, wouldnt it all boil down to individual taste? i can say for certain that, all things constant, if amp A lets me hear more detail than amp B, amp A is better. but what if both amps let hear one the same amount of detail with amp A having a slant towards a 'luscious' sound and amp B having a more 'clean' sound? not so easy now is it? just as one man's 'shouty' is another's 'rich', one man's 'clean' can be another's 'sterile'.

writer in magazines (ideally) have a 'reference' rig and as mentioned above 'long-term' experience with equipment PLUS no vested interest in the equipment. the promise of owning the equipment some time in the neear future counts to me as a vested interest which may or may not manifest itself as a latent bias. in addition, what i see often around here are 'snap' judgements of equipment - not impressions after 'live-in'. 'first impressions' threads that usually end up a rah-rah session for the equipment in question. imo like marriages, amps have a honeymoon period too where everything is hunky-dory and the milk and honey flow fast and thick, but give it 6 months and we all know what happens..

another difference between magazines and forums - a legion of fanboys cannot attack the credibility and validity of a review in a magazine in a manner that the undiscerning newbie can see. in other words, a magazine is a 'fixed' format. an author can disseminate his views without fear of (much) direct reprisal/rebuttal. a newbie here can and will get confused if a review with a strong opinion is followed up by 50+ posts by offended fanboys who may be articulate enough to sound deceptively reasonable.

people have a vested interest in their own equipment, which the manufacturer may or may not be a part of. i refer you to a particular thread out there which had a member who was extremely dissatisfied with his hd650s amped by a creek. immediately, everyone zoomed in on the creek, proclaiming it the 'weakest link' in the whole equation. is the creek a good amp? i dont know. but is it perceived as a good amp around here? certainly not! would it change the signature of the hd650 so radically so as to be more tone-control rather than amplifier? i have my serious doubts. but why then did so many people recommend that the poor member buy (expensive) amplification in order to 'resolve' his problem? a personal bias for the hd650 perhaps? a knee-jerk reaction to someone not enjoying such a head-fi iconoclast? or maybe a simple inability to understand why someoneand someone could dislike a headphone THEY love?

you are right - the views of a single member here can carry as much weight as the editor of time. unfortunately, the (amateur) reviwer in question likely realises this. mull over that last sentence. a fear of seeming 'ungrateful' would also certainly also come into play here. it is telling that in my 2 years here, i've yet to see a single reallly 'bad' review. has what people define as 'good sound' changed over the years? no! then would someone care to explain to me why, say, the creek obh series went from 'well-regarded' and 'recommended' to 'panned'? did something better come out? possible. but then again, if you search back far enough, the creek 21 compared decently to the melos. why did one amp fall while the other remained 'up there'?

finally, members are very unlikely to pan equipment, especially if they wish to sell it later on. a simple, but very powerful point imo.

all strictly imo!

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anders I wrote amplifier manufacturers, TTVJ is a reseller as well as Audiocubes, Shure makes headphones etc.

And how many others you know off? There are not that many manufacturers of amps as you think, and consider also that some of those few others, are just trying to begin in the bussiness, but that doesn't mean neither, that they will not do it, when the time comes (but at this selling and reviewing rate, maybe the time never gets to them...LOL...as even the big ones now are suffering), but honestly IMO for those two, the time had come long time ago...Of course this is a very personal choice, and there is no obligation at all on that, but at least you should show your appreciation, as even some of the forum administratiors and moderatiors, had reviewed and had talk a lot about your amps.....com'on guys time is over...!!!!!....

 

[White Fox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevieo jan, i agree with most of what you said. i disagree about "being local". in the global world where everything is local. i have received many amps from you over the past few years & the shipping time from germany to maryland was more often than not faster than expedited shipping times within the usa.

I have not ordered many times from Meier Audio, but the couple times I have, shipping time was only 4 business days, better than alot of actual shipping times of items I've ordered within the USA. Either I was blessed by the Mail Fairy, or Planet Head-Fi is a small place, I guess...