[ironbut]

I'm all for NY for the next International.
I have a feeling that Aaron and Co would put on a meet that will blow our minds.
 
I'm really looking forward to making to RMAF this year too. I don't think that 2 big heaphone parties a year are too much as long as the basic difference between the two events are kept in focus.
 
To me, a Headfi meet is more about community and the vendors are just along for the ride. That's not to say that they aren't important. Without them we could never dream of getting a really nice hotel to hold a meet in. But I've seen a lot of commercially focused events in the audiophile community come and go. They grow and grow and extend themselves based on that growth. Then when growth slows and "projected" revenues of the vendors fall short, their budgets for shows disappears.  Sometimes all it takes is one bad year and the whole thing falls apart. No vendors,.. no show.
I'd like to think that if we only had a handful of vendors at the International Meet, but that the local community was enthusiastic enough, it would still be a great event.
Maybe leave the heavy commercial focus on RMAF which is already a vendor focused event.
Just my 2 cents but if all the big audio shows died and never came back again, I wouldn't lose a single nights sleep.
But if there wasn't another Headfi International Meet or the great local meets we have here in NorCal, I'd be seriously bummed!

 

[Deadneddz]

^this is so true in many ways...

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

At RMAF I did not hear any speaker setups that sounded as good as the best headphone rigs there.  The problem was the setup and room treatments in most of them (one example - the Focal Grand Utopia sounded dark and bassy at RMAF and sounded perfect at Dinan's home).

next time stop in at the Merlin room it was fantastic

 

[jp11801]

 
Quote:

I'm all for NY for the next International.
I have a feeling that Aaron and Co would put on a meet that will blow our minds.
 
I'm really looking forward to making to RMAF this year too. I don't think that 2 big heaphone parties a year are too much as long as the basic difference between the two events are kept in focus.
 
To me, a Headfi meet is more about community and the vendors are just along for the ride. That's not to say that they aren't important. Without them we could never dream of getting a really nice hotel to hold a meet in. But I've seen a lot of commercially focused events in the audiophile community come and go. They grow and grow and extend themselves based on that growth. Then when growth slows and "projected" revenues of the vendors fall short, their budgets for shows disappears.  Sometimes all it takes is one bad year and the whole thing falls apart. No vendors,.. no show.
I'd like to think that if we only had a handful of vendors at the International Meet, but that the local community was enthusiastic enough, it would still be a great event.
Maybe leave the heavy commercial focus on RMAF which is already a vendor focused event.
Just my 2 cents but if all the big audio shows died and never came back again, I wouldn't lose a single nights sleep.
But if there wasn't another Headfi International Meet or the great local meets we have here in NorCal, I'd be seriously bummed!

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment but the community needs to step and support the meets by bringing their gear sadly this aspect was largely missing from this years meet. Heck there was a T2 electrostatc amp and a Balancing Act in our room and I never counted more than 6 people in the member rig room at one time and what were there 4 rigs in that room and maybe 15 member rigs overall.  This was also the case to a lesser degree in LA where we had to beat the bushed to fill the member rooms we had and even converted one member room to a MOT room after we realized we'd never fill it.
 
Headfi could never have that scale of a meet with minimal vendor support as the hotel costs are well above what a member supported meet will carry. Regionals can do this as 100 people can carry a $1000 hotel bill but 300 people can not carry a hotel bill that is north of 10K. At the end of the day you need 20 to 40 vendors to pull off CanJam any less than that and the event takes a financial loss and can not be sustained.  Lets just say 300 people attended Chicago at $20 a pop you'd have 6K and be in the red for what I would estimate would be over 10K given the expenses.
 
Steve NorCal to a large degree is not  representative of most parts of the country. We were able to hold 2 meets a year with attendance around the 80-100 people mark with every inch of member space taken. This is not the norm nor would that level of community support the costs of the annual meet without significant vendor presence.
 
Regionals are where the core communal aspects live and breath and they are some of my favorite meets to attend as they are more a gathering of friends than a show. I am really looking forward to the North Jersey meet for this very reason, Heck I'll be glad to see the 2 or 3 vendors that are coming but I a pumped to interact with the NJ and NY folks.

 

[immtbiker]

I think that having a Head-Fi Meet at RMAF is a tremendous idea, and last year, Johnnie Numbers did everything right.
 
However, here is one thing that crossed my mind when offering NY and called JP and Jude. If the meet is in Colorado, almost everyone will have to get on a plane.
 
If it is held in NY, we average close to 90 members each per Spring/Fall meet. Now, with all of the experience that we gained, the meet will be 10X better than it was in 2006, but the major selling point, is that we can have between 250-300 members who can drive there, from Maine to DC and from Long Island to Ohio. That means a ginormous turnout, but more importantly, a huge amount of personal setups.
Large membership attendance equates to larger vendor turnout, and larger vendor turnout means larger member turnout. And so on....

 

[spritzer]

One more thing NYC (or somewhere close) has going for it is direct flights from pretty much anywhere in the world for us, the international members. 

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

One more thing NYC (or somewhere close) has going for it is direct flights from pretty much anywhere in the world for us, the international members. 

Yes, and now that we finally got to meet the infamous Spritzer (which at Long Island bars, means "a glass of wine with a splash of soda water" which happens to be the antithesis of Birgir

), you are morally obligated to attend our meet each year. A real punishment, eh? 
 

 

[Asr]

Quote:

However, here is one thing that crossed my mind when offering NY and called JP and Jude. If the meet is in Colorado, almost everyone will have to get on a plane.

Yeah the Head-Fier density in the Great American West drops like a sinkhole for whatever reason. Not very many CO locals here either to support anything larger than a regional meet - I guess most people 'round these parts prefer to enjoy the great outdoors instead of doing something like staying inside and....listening to headphones.

 
But I digress. CanJam New York (hey I like the sound of that, has a nice ring to it) next year would be awesome and it needs to happen! Tasty pizza & Greek gyros! Times Square, Central Park, museums, Broadway! An extremely high density of attractive women to ogle at! The city that never sleeps! Hey when's the Fall Meet going to get organized? I'm ready to jump on a plane right now!

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

I think that having a Head-Fi Meet at RMAF is a tremendous idea, and last year, Johnnie Numbers did everything right.
 
However, here is one thing that crossed my mind when offering NY and called JP and Jude. If the meet is in Colorado, almost everyone will have to get on a plane.
 
If it is held in NY, we average close to 90 members each per Spring/Fall meet. Now, with all of the experience that we gained, the meet will be 10X better than it was in 2006, but the major selling point, is that we can have between 250-300 members who can drive there, from Maine to DC and from Long Island to Ohio. That means a ginormous turnout, but more importantly, a huge amount of personal setups.
Large membership attendance equates to larger vendor turnout, and larger vendor turnout means larger member turnout. And so on....

tru dat, Aaron NYC would be the party to end all parties. Rigs a plenty, endors out the wazoo and a flodd or headfiers all we need is proof of concept in a venue brother

 

[El_Doug]

Forgoing a spring/summer NYC canjam for the 2011 RMAF is by far the worst, and most misguided, idea I have heard in a long time.  The idea reeks of putting pride before the community, in an effort to pitch our hobby to the speaker crowd even more than would already be happening anyway with the current rmaf canjam.  We do not need to prove ourselves to them. 
 
Every reason for NYC has been covered, but I will reiterate the single most important one:  community.  Imagine having 3x the member rigs when compared to Chicago.  Imagine the increased number of international head-fi'ers in attendance!  Imagine the sheer turnout of those who actively participate in our community.  This fact alone pisses all over any and all benefits a more "proper" hi-fi convention would bring.  Even at such a grand scale, we are still a relatively small community - and turning what should be an international equivalent of our larger regional meets into a commercial mess in the middle of nowhere (in terms of the number of active head-fi'ers) is just plain stupid. 

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Yes, and now that we finally got to meet the infamous Spritzer (which at Long Island bars, means "a glass of wine with a splash of soda water" which happens to be the antithesis of Birgir

), you are morally obligated to attend our meet each year. A real punishment, eh? 
 

I think I'll survive...

 

 

[jp11801]

Quote:

Forgoing a spring/summer NYC canjam for the 2011 RMAF is by far the worst, and most misguided, idea I have heard in a long time.  The idea reeks of putting pride before the community, in an effort to pitch our hobby to the speaker crowd even more than would already be happening anyway with the current rmaf canjam.  We do not need to prove ourselves to them. 
 
Every reason for NYC has been covered, but I will reiterate the single most important one:  community.  Imagine having 3x the member rigs when compared to Chicago.  Imagine the increased number of international head-fi'ers in attendance!  Imagine the sheer turnout of those who actively participate in our community.  This fact alone pisses all over any and all benefits a more "proper" hi-fi convention would bring.  Even at such a grand scale, we are still a relatively small community - and turning what should be an international equivalent of our larger regional meets into a commercial mess in the middle of nowhere (in terms of the number of active head-fi'ers) is just plain stupid. 

Hey Doug tell us how you really feel.

 
Not sure where you got most of your sentiment from? Regarding having anything to prove. RMAF for me is a great opportunity to turn both communities on to each other. Last year we saw many jaws drop at the sound we were putting out in the room. This to me was a great way to help expand the hobby.
 
It also allowed some headfi folks to hear what world class speaker rigs are all about. It is not a bout pitching anything to anyone. I think both communites gain but you may  disagree and that's cool. I'd argue that we are not a small community. Head-Fi is one of the largest if not the largest audio discussion boards on the web. It contains the greatest level of age and gear (from a dollar perspective) diversity and in many ways contains the key to the future of audiophiles. While I really do not like the audiophile term we are one of the ONLY growing segments. I'd love to see some of the better speaker or gear folks take a stab at headphone related gear.
 
Last year was not a commercial mess, we actually had a good local turnout that resulted in a large after hours dinner and drinks moment afterwards. Both MOTs and members had a great time and I think there is some photographic evidence of this on the interwebs somewhere. Does Denver have the requisite number of locals to produce what we have know as CanJam in a word no. I'd argue as I have in the past that really only 3 to 4 locations have the needed numbers NorCal, SoCal, Chicago and NY. All other locations become a travel event.
 
In conclusion I love NY , heck I grew up there and I'd love to see the event return there sometime in the near future. You may have missed the point but Aaron and I  are currently working on  NY but there is much PRE work to be done given the expectation of the event that has been created over the past 5 years. I'd love to hear more of your thoughts over beers or at least Macaroni in NJ in July.
 

 

[El_Doug]

Oh, RMAF is truly an excellent place to help the hobby expand - indeed anyone who argues against that is a moron as well   Having a "CanJam @ RMAF" is fantastic, and shouldnt stop. 
 
However, it is a poor location if we are to think of CanJam proper as a community event, centered around the social aspect of Head-Fi, making sure as many members can travel there as possible, as well as hearing member rigs, including the vast array of DIY options that we have come up with.  If the event were EXCLUSIVELY at rmaf, we would be giving up a lot. 
 
 
I'll buy you that beer. 

 

[Exediron]

I am also against having the next CanJam coincide with the RMAF, because I think it damages the identity of the event. It becomes basically an extension of the festival, not it's own community based event.

 

[ironbut]

Yikes! I hope my post didn't lead anyone to think that there were any plans to forgo CanJam NY or Duluth or whatever for participation at RMAF.
My point was that I think there should be a clear distinction between the two events and that goes for the participants as well as the organizers. The lack of local participation this year tipped the balance further into a "vendor driven" event. I understand that this sort of thing can happen no matter how well things are organized and I don't find fault in anyone in this regards. **** happens!
I just don't want future meet organizers to think, " heck, most of the action happened at the vendor level and everything seemed to work out just fine. Maybe we just need one room for member rigs?"
IMHO, that's not okay.
 
But, by the same token, I don't think that there's as much of a need to have lots of member rigs at RMAF. There should be plenty of room for them and I'd especially like to see as many one of a kind, DIY amps there as possible but there's just so damn much to see and do in Denver that I wouldn't hold it against anyone with a mid level, off the shelf rig if they only brought themselves (and their good looking wives and da,.. well, you get the idea.
I agree with Jp, these big shows are something that everyone should check out at least once. Me,.. I've been to 20+ of these kinds of shows and it makes my feet hurt just to think about it. Even so, I still feel the need to drag my lazy ass to one every few years.
 
BTW
I think this year we're beholdin' to great vendors like Todd (TVJ) who acted much more like a member, keeping his room open till all hours of the morning while we got progressively more,.. "friendly".
We're very lucky to have him.