[guyverl]

Hi guys just wondering if any of you guys had experienced anything similar.

I accidentally left the Micro Amp on medium gain when listening with PX100 - i'd forgotten my UE10s that day for work and I normally leave it on the 'low' gain setting. Came in to work the next day armed with UE10s and plugged them in. Was listening to a few familiar tracks on my normal rig and suddenly I thought... wow this sounds really really good highs were a hell of a lot clearer and the soundstage seemed much wider... instrument placement seemed a lot more distinct and the bass was tighter also.

So I looked at the amp and realised I was on medium gain and thought that this was just probably me listening at a louder level! Hence, I switched it back to low gain and raised the volume POT so that the volume was the same as I was litening before - behold! Bass was more muddy, the whole sound felt a lot more congested...

Anybody have an explanation or seen this happen before? The sound is so much more lively now... UE10s are incredibly efficient so surely should be using low gain. The pot generally doesn't go about 9 o'clock for me even on low gain..

 

[TheSloth]

I know what you mean, but I'm not sure the reasoning, or if what you are hearing is actually more or less accurate to the source. I am guessing that if you set the gain higher, and increase the attenuation on the potentiometer then you are inherently improving the signal to noise ratio. I suppose you are also providing the amp with more 'headroom'?

I found that with my HeadRoom Convertable (Home Module in it at the time) it sounded better at the same volume driving K701's on medium gain rather than low gain.

 

[markot86]

Just tested it myself, and yep, that def. seems to be the case on my hd600's as well; it's not a major difference, but it's definately noticable

 

[guyverl]

Cool! So i'm not going totally insane after all... wonder if anybody from HeadRoom could weigh in on this.

I was beginning to find my MicroAmp a little dull and was hankering back for my SR-71 (which I actually traded with HeadRoom come to think about it). But the much more lively sound on medium gain reminds me much more of the SR-71 sound...

 

[markot86]

My problem now is that I have absolutely NO headroom to turn up the volume at all, leading to the dreaded channel imbalance issues. This is one thing I just don't understand about amp companies; I'm using the HD600's here, a headphone that is suppose to be hard to drive; WHY can I barely turn the nob even a quarter of the way up on LOW setting with them? Is there some competition about who can make the amp that can drive a pair of headphones the loudest?

I can't even use my sr-60's on this amp because of this issue. Might have to give headroom a call to see what's up =)

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markot86 My problem now is that I have absolutely NO headroom to turn up the volume at all, leading to the dreaded channel imbalance issues. This is one thing I just don't understand about amp companies; I'm using the HD600's here, a headphone that is suppose to be hard to drive; WHY can I barely turn the nob even a quarter of the way up on LOW setting with them? Is there some competition about who can make the amp that can drive a pair of headphones the loudest? I can't even use my sr-60's on this amp because of this issue. Might have to give headroom a call to see what's up =)

Well, an amp by definition is designed to make a signal louder. To amplify it. That's it's purpose, not acoustic trickery. Most amps that sound "better" or at least different are somehow euphonically distorting the signal (usually mildly); at its base, though, your goal is to take a line-level signal and bring it up by increasing the current and voltage to be capable of driving a speaker (or rather headphone, in this case) load.

Edit to be more helpful: I find that running a source from a relatively low output setting (say, 60% of its possible output) can go a long way to correct channel imbalances, op-amp clipping/distortion, etc. from the source. So, run it relatively low into your amplifier then use the amplifier to bring that signal up to volume. You'll generally end up with the best possible sound quality this way, because you're not pushing the source's (usually weak) power output section too hard and clipping.

 

[patrox89]

ive noticed the same, medium gain setting can power pretty much anything too. anything from earbuds to full sized cans with good level control on all.

another thing i noticed was that if i was playing video games, cs:s especially, i could only barely hear footsteps on the high gain setting, but switch to medium and BAM i know exactly where people are... kinda amazing.

 

[markot86]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NotJeffBuckley Well, an amp by definition is designed to make a signal louder. To amplify it. That's it's purpose, not acoustic trickery. Most amps that sound "better" or at least different are somehow euphonically distorting the signal (usually mildly); at its base, though, your goal is to take a line-level signal and bring it up by increasing the current and voltage to be capable of driving a speaker (or rather headphone, in this case) load.

Thank you for stating the obvious; could you please refrain from starting yet another science vs faith arguement? I would rather this thread not turn into a 5 page topic on whether amps do anything other than make the headphone louder.

 

[NotJeffBuckley]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markot86 Thank you for stating the obvious; could you please refrain from starting yet another science vs faith arguement? I would rather this thread not turn into a 5 page topic on whether amps do anything other than make the headphone louder.

This isn't a science vs faith debate, so don't be a jerk. This has nothing to do with any of that. Some people can be so incredibly touchy... An amplifier amplifies. Most good ones correct deficiencies that bad ones can't address. What's disagreeable about that statement?

 

[markot86]

Now that you have edited your first post, I see you're not trying to start anything, so my appologies.

However, this is still slightly bothering me, because I can't really see why there would be any difference between low and medium gain, and it's hard for me to tell whether this is just major placebo or not.

Going back and forth i'm starting to think that there is no difference, but you know how that goes. I do see that in order to correct channel imbalance, I am subconciously listening at a louder volume on medium gain, so that could account for a difference.

Looking through the Art of Electronics I see nothing that could possibly explain such a phenomenon. NotJeff, is there anything that could explain this?

 

[guyverl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markot86 Now that you have edited your first post, I see you're not trying to start anything, so my appologies. However, this is still slightly bothering me, because I can't really see why there would be any difference between low and medium gain, and it's hard for me to tell whether this is just major placebo or not. Going back and forth i'm starting to think that there is no difference, but you know how that goes. I do see that in order to correct channel imbalance, I am subconciously listening at a louder volume on medium gain, so that could account for a difference. Looking through the Art of Electronics I see nothing that could possibly explain such a phenomenon. NotJeff, is there anything that could explain this?

I'd have to say here that I don't think it's a placebo... this is all in my rig that i've been using the best part of a few months and tracks that I listen to all the time. I absolutely didn't expect the medium gain to have any difference other than being louder. As I said, the first thing I did was switch to low gain ... and then thinking wow, if I just listen to louder it will sound as good as it did on the medium gain. But despite turning up the low gain to around the same level and perhaps even louder (perceived) then the medium... I then switched once again back to medium gain and turned the volume down with the same result! Just to reiterate that I certainly wasn't expecting this result and so not sure if we can say placebo here or not. Of course I switched back and forth many times after this 'discovery' to try and confirm that I wasn't going mad and posted here too!

 

[markot86]

Yes, it's very weird indeed; switching back and forth is making me believe that there is no difference, but I also heard it myself as well. I'd call headroom just to make sure i'm not going crazy, but I feel as if they'll just scratch there heads and think i'm dumb =P

 

[replytoken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by guyverl I'd have to say here that I don't think it's a placebo... this is all in my rig that i've been using the best part of a few months and tracks that I listen to all the time. I absolutely didn't expect the medium gain to have any difference other than being louder. As I said, the first thing I did was switch to low gain ... and then thinking wow, if I just listen to louder it will sound as good as it did on the medium gain. But despite turning up the low gain to around the same level and perhaps even louder (perceived) then the medium... I then switched once again back to medium gain and turned the volume down with the same result! Just to reiterate that I certainly wasn't expecting this result and so not sure if we can say placebo here or not. Of course I switched back and forth many times after this 'discovery' to try and confirm that I wasn't going mad and posted here too!

Does your Micro have the Micro or Desktop module? Perhaps it has to do with the stability of the Op Amp? In another thread, kin0kin stated:

Quote:

Originally Posted by kin0kin But the opamp's characteristics have to be taken into consideration when setting the gain. For example, you could set a gain of 2 for unity gain stable opamps like the opa627, but you would want to have around gain of 5 or more for opa637 in order for it to work with better stability. Like mentioned earlier, you'd wanna set the gain at around 5-6 for a general purpose amp, it's pretty much the sweetspot - better stability, adequate amplification for most phones, doesn't suck up as much power. Anyway, if you want to go a little fancier, adding a dpdt switch along with 2 more resistors would allow you to switch the gain to accomodate more phones

 

[bmclaurin]

Just want to throw in my agreement here. Medium gain definitely sounds better to me on my sf5pro's. I don't think it's a placebo thing either.

 

[bmclaurin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by replytoken Does your Micro have the Micro or Desktop module? Perhaps it has to do with the stability of the Op Amp? In another thread, kin0kin stated:

Mine has the Desktop module. As stated in my previous post, Medium gain definitely seems to be an improvement over Low gain IMO.