[OldStager]

Good evening,

I'm new here and happy to join this community. Nice to meet you all .

I’m about to get myself a brand new Focal Clear, as those headphones convinced me last time I heard them on a local hifi convention.

As I don’t own any headphone AMP or DAC so far, I wanted to start this journey in the low-price segment.

I read on the internet that Schiit is a good call for my needs.

In this forum among others, I learned about different possible combinations, such as:

A) Schiit Magni 3 (AMP) + Schiit Modi Multibit (DAC) = 350$

B) Schiit Magni 3 (AMP) + Schiit Modi 3 (DAC) = 200$

C) Schiit Asgard 3 (AMP/DAC) = 200 – 300$, depending on the DAC

I’m leaning towards A) or B) since I heard it’s best to have DAC and AMP separated and exchangeable.

As far as I can tell, the only difference between A and B is that there’s this “Multibit” build in? What does it do and is it worth the 150$ extra?

Thanks a lot in advance.

 

[PurpleAngel]

How about a Topping DX7s DAC/amp (with a balanced headphone jack).
https://drop.com/buy/topping-dx7s
And a balanced cable for the Focal Clear headphones.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I’m leaning towards A) or B) since I heard it’s best to have DAC and AMP separated and exchangeable.

You can still use the Modi3 or any DAC with the Asgard 3 if you want to make sure you can easily swap out a DAC in case of failure, even if you order it with the built-in DAC card.

As far as I can tell, the only difference between A and B is that there’s this “Multibit” build in? What does it do and is it worth the 150$ extra?

http://www.mother-of-tone.com/conversion.htm

Note that evaluations of these are based on using the same amplifier, not an R2R/multibit DAC on one amp vs a Delta-Sigma DAC into a more expensive amp at a tier where the difference can be audible.

 

[tomb]

How about a Topping DX7s DAC/amp (with a balanced headphone jack).
https://drop.com/buy/topping-dx7s
And a balanced cable for the Focal Clear headphones.

Doesn't the Focal Clear include a balanced cable in its accessories?

 

[alvinsi]

I've had the multi-bit and it is good for the price-point so would recommend that. Having said that - you will quickly find the itch to upgrade.

 

[OldStager]

@PurpleAngel : Why would you recommend to go with that Topping gear instead of Schiit?

@ProtegeManiac : So you recommend using an Asgard 3 instead of Magni 3?

The thing is, as I said, I'm not completely new to Hi-Fi, but so far I only used stationary speakers or headphones that ain't require an AMP (like, 32Ohm DT770)

So I basically don't want to spend more than 300 bucks at this point (except the 1,5k Clears of course).


And online reviews state that both the Magni 3 and the Modi 3 seem to be extremely good for people like me who don't want to spend too much money for minor changes they might not even hear if you know what I mean....

 

[Gazny]

Id get an Asgard 3 in this situation just for the upgraded potentiometer, The noisy pot bugged me a lot on low impedience headphones on my Magni but on my Asgard 2 I didn't have the same issue.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Doesn't the Focal Clear include a balanced cable in its accessories?

If it does, cool

 

[PurpleAngel]

@PurpleAngel : Why would you recommend to go with that Topping gear instead of Schiit?
@ProtegeManiac : So you recommend using an Asgard 3 instead of Magni 3?
The thing is, as I said, I'm not completely new to Hi-Fi, but so far I only used stationary speakers or headphones that ain't require an AMP (like, 32Ohm DT770)
So I basically don't want to spend more than 300 bucks at this point (except the 1,5k Clears of course).
And online reviews state that both the Magni 3 and the Modi 3 seem to be extremely good for people like me who don't want to spend too much money for minor changes they might not even hear if you know what I mean....

I've listened to the Schiit Modi/Magni and it does sound good.
But the DX7s comes with a balanced headphone jack (as well as regular headphone jack) and it comes with dual DAC chips and i myself prefer an all in one unit.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

@ProtegeManiac : So you recommend using an Asgard 3 instead of Magni 3?

The thing is, as I said, I'm not completely new to Hi-Fi, but so far I only used stationary speakers or headphones that ain't require an AMP (like, 32Ohm DT770)

So I basically don't want to spend more than 300 bucks at this point (except the 1,5k Clears of course).


And online reviews state that both the Magni 3 and the Modi 3 seem to be extremely good for people like me who don't want to spend too much money for minor changes they might not even hear if you know what I mean....

The thing is the Asgard 3 isn't that much more money, it has more power in case you need more, and it runs more Class A bias.

I mean if you're talking about an extremely tight budget then sure, get the Modi3+Magni3, it offers more inputs into the Modi3. But if your budget isn't that restricted and neither is the desk space you'll use it in, not to mention the idea that the Asgard 3 is extremely restricted in case of failure isn't exactly accurate (ie, you can get it with the DAC card now, but if it fails down the line you either order a new DAC card from Schiit or you get a ModiX with X = whatever iteration it will be at by the time something goes wrong with the DAC card and Schiit doesn't make them). Or just get the Asgard 3 and the Modi 3 if you need several digital input options.

 

[OldStager]

@Gazny Thanks for the advice, I've put the Asgard on my list of options

@PurpleAngel Thank you so much for the advice. I did some "research" and review-reviewing on those and I actually got quite interessted in the Topping products. The DX7s seems to be really good. Too bad I didn't get it when it was still inculding the remote per default and was only 3xx€. Two questions about this: Elsewhere, I read that one problem might is that a headphone should match the DAC/AMP by some 8:1 rule (which I didn't quite get to be honest) and that this might not be 100% the case with the clears on an DX7, what do you think?

Second question is, what about a Topping A30+D30 combo for the clear?

@ProtegeManiac Thank you very much for advice on the Modi, Magni and Asgard thing. The flexibility/upgradeability seems to be quite the argument in favor of the Asgard

 

[PurpleAngel]

@Gazny Thanks for the advice, I've put the Asgard on my list of options

@PurpleAngel Thank you so much for the advice. I did some "research" and review-reviewing on those and I actually got quite interested in the Topping products. The DX7s seems to be really good. Too bad I didn't get it when it was still including the remote per default and was only 3xx€. Two questions about this: Elsewhere, I read that one problem might is that a headphone should match the DAC/AMP by some 8:1 rule (which I didn't quite get to be honest) and that this might not be 100% the case with the clears on an DX7, what do you think?

Second question is, what about a Topping A30+D30 combo for the clear?

@ProtegeManiac Thank you very much for advice on the Modi, Magni and Asgard thing. The flexibility/upgradeability seems to be quite the argument in favor of the Asgard

The 8:1 rule (more like a good guideline) is about damping control, so for the best damping control, you want the headphones impedance (Ohm) to be 8 (or 10) times the output impedance (Ohm) of the headphone amplifier's headphone jack.
I've plugged 35-Ohm headphones into a 10-Ohm (output impedance) headphone amplifier (so 3.5 to 1) and it did the job for my use.
Never spent any time reading up on the A30 or D30.

 

[OldStager]

The 8:1 rule (more like a good guideline) is about damping control, so for the best damping control, you want the headphones impedance (Ohm) to be 8 (or 10) times the output impedance (Ohm) of the headphone amplifier's headphone jack.
I've plugged 35-Ohm headphones into a 10-Ohm (output impedance) headphone amplifier (so 3.5 to 1) and it did the job for my use.
Never spent any time reading up on the A30 or D30.

Thanks for the explanation, learned something new . However, I saw some charts where some of the better AMP's have output impedances of 0,1-0,9 (like, the lower, the better?)...but there's hardly any headphone with Ohm being x8 or x10 of 0,x right? What part did I get wrong?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for the explanation, learned something new . However, I saw some charts where some of the better AMP's have output impedances of 0,1-0,9 (like, the lower, the better?)...but there's hardly any headphone with Ohm being x8 or x10 of 0,x right? What part did I get wrong?

It's not supposed to always be exactly 8:1. It's just at least and roughly 8:1. Meaning a 300ohm HD600 will work fine without any damping factor issues from anywhere near 0.1ohm to 24ohm.

And one reason why I said "at least roughly" is because it's not a hard rule, it's just an easier way to guesstimate if there will be a problem or not. An HD600 at 300ohms will have a less severe issue when not following the 8:1 rule. For example a 120ohm output impedance on the headphone output on an integrated amplifier originally designed for speakers but not using a very good headphone output circuit will make a 32ohm or 62ohm headphone sound like a tin can or in a few cases bloat the low end. By contrast the HD600 will get a mild low end to midrange boost.

 

[rfernand]

If you can, audition a Schiit Jotunheim. I recognize this is not in your option list, but since you seem to favor Schiit already, you may be in for a nice surprise (try the multibit DAC module!)