Master Clock Talk

[macrog]

Many thanks for getting back to me.

As I'm still finding my feet with this topic, I wasn't quite sure if your reply answered my question.

Could you please clarify whether using different waves on different components in the chain, from the same clock, would be counter-productive, or if it would still be helpful for syncing the timings?

Consistency of clock to all components has clear audible value. I tried running a different clock into Etherregen at router than stereo system and clear deterioration of sound was apparent. Running a long clock cable to the Etherregen at router from system clock was a decent upgrade.

Of the clocks I tried the Mutec Reference 10 SE120 is a step above anything else. I was convinced enough to buy 2. 1 for each of my primary systems.

 

[audiargent]

Consistency of clock to all components has clear audible value. I tried running a different clock into Etherregen at router than stereo system and clear deterioration of sound was apparent. Running a long clock cable to the Etherregen at router from system clock was a decent upgrade.

Of the clocks I tried the Mutec Reference 10 SE120 is a step above anything else. I was convinced enough to buy 2. 1 for each of my primary systems.

Even if it is different wave forms? As I have limited ports it seems. I need 4 in total, and two sine and two square wave.

 

[Jake2]

@audiargent A few things, firstly the OCK-2 (or do you mean the 2S version?) has 3 square and 3 sine, each switchable in impedance. Which gives you the ability to do three of your four with one wave type if you so wish.

Personally I think any delta between the two waveforms will be negligible if any, even IF everything else is held equal. In reality other variables in my view are likely to have a much greater impact:
- whether each component’s receiving circuit is inherently better performing with square or sine (A-B them will make this quickly clear)
- quality of your cables, their terminations, your devices (incl OCK-2’s) BNC connectors and internal circuitry (the full RF transmission line), any imperfections can result in impedance discontinuities (a perfect 50 or 75 for the whole TL is far from a given, impacts square more) and/or RFI shielding dips ( impacts sine more)
- the exact length of your transmission line for each component, even if cable length is identical the receiving device’s internal circuit length may differ so fractionally different timing of wave crests of the 10m long wavelength of the 10MHz signal (whether square or sine) arriving. Practically though per Macrog’s experience with an asynchronous device like the ER at least this is less of a factor than overall clock quality or transmission line quality. I’m not suggesting this is something to worry about more just show that even with all sine or all square fed devices there’s likely to be some small variation between devices with wave crest arrival timing.

Have a play with different wave types and trust your ears is my advice,

Edit - I should add there’s another key variable, the quality of the clock’s sine to square conversion circuit. Identically clean square and sine waves like the Mutec REF10 produces are not a given. I’ve seen some very ugly rounded shoulder square waveforms. I’ve preferred sine with my OCK-2, though some others like square, though this may be in part due to device synergy as mentioned above.

 

[ray12345]

Even if it is different wave forms? As I have limited ports it seems. I need 4 in total, and two sine and two square wave.

Just try it, it wouldn't hurt any components. I use 3 clock outputs in my system, for DDC, DAC and network switch, I ended up putting it all square waves, but at one stage I have tried putting DDC and DAC on square and network switch on sine wave.

Sine wave in general produces a softer sound, square wave produces sharper sound. In resolution terms, square wave is always better, just mix and match to make the sound you like.

 

[GingerBeard1]

I have been reading through this thread, an I think I have a pretty good idea, but wanted to ask for opinions. I have a full Hifi Rose system, consisting of the RS130 and RD160 (with an RA180). I am thinking about trying out an external clock, but do not want to spend too much since I haven't heard the benefits first hand. I am between the LHY OCK-2S and the Mutec Nano. The Nano is a little more than double the price, and doesn't seem like its worth the double price from what I've read. I can buy the Nano locally (MTL, Canada), however, and I can return it for a 20% restocking fee. The LHY, I can get for half the price on Ali Express, but then who knows how likely it is to either return or get it serviced.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

 

[macrog]

I would go with the Mutec. The quality is impeccable and you have the option of an external power supply upgrade down the track. My Mutecs were very much a step forward on the Afterdarks I used before them. Square wave output on Mutecs is way better.

 

[GingerBeard1]

I would go with the Mutec. The quality is impeccable and you have the option of an external power supply upgrade down the track. My Mutecs were very much a step forward on the Afterdarks I used before them. Square wave output on Mutecs is way better.

Thanks for the info. Which power supply are people generally going for the Nano? Is the built it one decent?

 

[macrog]

I have 2 Mutec Reference 10 SE120s so I can’t help sorry. Every Mutec product I have seen has been very good quality.

 

[Stellabagpuss]

Another one to chuck in the ring is the Leo Bodnar LBE-1610 10MHZ clock, this is a Square wave clock, and has two 50ohm SMA output. They also offer a 30 Day return period. So if you don't like it,just return it.
l've owned a AfterDark clock, one down from top of the range, the Leobodnar GPS PRECISION CLOCK, and having now upgraded to the LBE-1610, my Gustard R26 has never sounded so good, lt's a definite keeper in my set up.

 

[FredA]

It's better than LV-77S, which is a good cable but a touch bright.

Between the NEVD-2001 and the HT DS-III, do you know which one is best as sine clock cable? I am trying a bunch them right now, including a Double Crown clone and a Preffair with graphene shielding layer (both very good, i think the Preffair might win).

 

[Cevap751]

It is 1 Ampere, slow blow, 5x20 mm. They are easy to access on the back of the power socket and you always have to change both inside. And bring the fuse holder back in correct position - 110 vs. 220 Volt.
But unfortunately i was too fast yesterday, hissing is back. Could be, that i heard the cleaner power on sundays in big cities. Then again the fuses are new and not burned in, so maybe there will be a benefit in 2 weeks.

Hey there,
i just changed the fuses of Mutec Ref 10 back from Hifi Tuning supreme Cardas Copper to the original cheap-looking ones, which were inside.
Here is the difference in my setup:
With Hifi Tuning voices are a bit softer and cleaner (less sharp "ssss" sounds, high frequencies sound cleaner).
Dynamics and room/body of voices are also reduced, they sound flater. Other instruments sound flater too.
Bass also looses quality, is less deep, less precize.

So at least, there is some change of sound by changing the fuses of a wordclock. And maybe there are better fuses out there below 1000 USD -)), which even change sound to the better. Or maybe one can spend the money for other stuff, like always.

My Mutec sounds a bit calmer in a good way, less nervous with those heavy metal door stoppers for 20 Euros, some people here advised.
And Tubulus Concentus clock cable increased sound quality, a better power cable, too.
Best regards

 

[ray12345]

I have been reading through this thread, an I think I have a pretty good idea, but wanted to ask for opinions. I have a full Hifi Rose system, consisting of the RS130 and RD160 (with an RA180). I am thinking about trying out an external clock, but do not want to spend too much since I haven't heard the benefits first hand. I am between the LHY OCK-2S and the Mutec Nano. The Nano is a little more than double the price, and doesn't seem like its worth the double price from what I've read. I can buy the Nano locally (MTL, Canada), however, and I can return it for a 20% restocking fee. The LHY, I can get for half the price on Ali Express, but then who knows how likely it is to either return or get it serviced.

What do you guys think? Thanks!

Not to discourage you but I guess just share with you the experience of my friend. My friend is exactly using RS130 and RD160, he tried using OCK-2S and later sold it. He said there is not much difference using the OCK-2S. You have to know though, my friend is one of those that change hifi components faster than changing clothes, so I don't know if he really tried hard to use the OCK-2S, it could be that he is using the wrong clock cable, YMMV.