[Flyblues]

Some dacs, like recent audio-gds or the top Gustards, redo the whole timing. Whether you use i2s or spdif makes no difference as far as the external clocking. You get the same significant benefits whatever the type of input.

From this post I revisited the I2S pin layout regarding the clock signal and I could not connect the dots regarding redoing the timing in the DAC.

This got me more curious and did some tests as follows:
1) When connecting my Clock to only my DDC I there was a instant improvement, but connecting only my DAC, (thus no external Clock connected to the DDC) I did not hear that same improvement when using the I2S connecting for input. However for other sources or using Roon over the A26 native bridge I did hear an improvement.
2) When connecting my Clock to the DDC and than adding the DAC did not give further improvement

To get a definitive answer what Clock the A26 uses when an external device is connected over I2S I have contacted Gustard with that question via email.

The exact question I asked:
"If I connect my U18 to my A26 over I2s, will the A26 use the clock from the U18 or reclock the input received internally in the A26 again?

Gustard was kind enough to respond and their answer was unambiguous: The A26 uses the U18's clock when connected over I2S.

I thought it was worth sharing and may be of value and can be in input in a clock selection decision.

Examples where it may help in purchasing decisions
-Most Cyber Shaft clocks have only one connection and this proposition becomes now much more attractive when using an input device, like a DDC or a Streamer to a DAC. In this scenario you do not need to purchase their clock distributor which saves you around $600 (but always can add it later on).
-Also in this scenario you will need only one connection cable and can concentrate funds on one higher-end cable instead of two lower quality ones that add up to the same purchase amount.
-Clocks that have a limited number of square wave connections. The Gustard C18 comes two mind, who has two square wave and two sine wave connections. Connection over square wave are preferred by many. When connecting over I2S you need one connection less so when you previously needed three connections, no it is two.

 

[JaMo]

Vibration damping is good. You don't have to overdo it though. You can buy High End/Hi Tech feet but You will get a very good result with medium rigid foam material from a packing material. The only thing is to find the material balance the weight of the clock. Not too hard or too soft. I use this low budget solution on my Mutec REF 10
/Jan

 

[gimmeheadroom]

When you guys talk about the vibrations. Are you talking about speakers making these sound vibrations? - or like walking/jumping on the floor?

 

[bodiebill2]

@bodiebill2 finally has a working solution to the DI-20 vs Gustard Pin 15 DSD conundrum he recently outlined on the A26 thread.

Makes me revisit getting a DI-20HE whilst they're still available.

Please wait until I post some afterthoughts in the A26 forum

 

[mgsu]

From this post I revisited the I2S pin layout regarding the clock signal and I could not connect the dots regarding redoing the timing in the DAC.

This got me more curious and did some tests as follows:
1) When connecting my Clock to only my DDC I there was a instant improvement, but connecting only my DAC, (thus no external Clock connected to the DDC) I did not hear that same improvement when using the I2S connecting for input. However for other sources or using Roon over the A26 native bridge I did hear an improvement.
2) When connecting my Clock to the DDC and than adding the DAC did not give further improvement

To get a definitive answer what Clock the A26 uses when an external device is connected over I2S I have contacted Gustard with that question via email.

The exact question I asked:
"If I connect my U18 to my A26 over I2s, will the A26 use the clock from the U18 or reclock the input received internally in the A26 again?

Gustard was kind enough to respond and their answer was unambiguous: The A26 uses the U18's clock when connected over I2S.

I thought it was worth sharing and may be of value and can be in input in a clock selection decision.

Examples where it may help in purchasing decisions
-Most Cyber Shaft clocks have only one connection and this proposition becomes now much more attractive when using an input device, like a DDC or a Streamer to a DAC. In this scenario you do not need to purchase their clock distributor which saves you around $600 (but always can add it later on).
-Also in this scenario you will need only one connection cable and can concentrate funds on one higher-end cable instead of two lower quality ones that add up to the same purchase amount.
-Clocks that have a limited number of square wave connections. The Gustard C18 comes two mind, who has two square wave and two sine wave connections. Connection over square wave are preferred by many. When connecting over I2S you need one connection less so when you previously needed three connections, no it is two.l

Gustard was kind enough to respond and their answer was unambiguous: The A26 uses the U18's clock when connected over I2S.

This represents my own experience with Gustard R26 and OCK-2

Since the R26 is connected to SU-6 DDC over I2S i can hear no difference when i run the R26 with OCK-2 or without.

Unfortunately i got attacked from several people here because i made the claim that OCK-2 does nothing to my system.

Thank you for clarifying that Gustard is relying on the clock from the DDC when connected over I2s.

I assume this apply to all synchronous connections?!

 

[mgsu]

I dont know how the sound can improve more than this. I think Im past the limits of my senses. I am still open to try though.

I woult try the polysound foam pads also on speakers, they are dirty cheap and available for different weight classes, from 2kg - 200kg

 

[sajunky]

To get a definitive answer what Clock the A26 uses when an external device is connected over I2S I have contacted Gustard with that question via email.

The exact question I asked:
"If I connect my U18 to my A26 over I2s, will the A26 use the clock from the U18 or reclock the input received internally in the A26 again?

Gustard was kind enough to respond and their answer was unambiguous: The A26 uses the U18's clock when connected over I2S.

This is a correct answer. However in your question external clock is not mentioned. Therefore the answer is limited to a case where external clock not connected/enabled.

I am pretty sure with external clock enabled, clock synthesiser takes over. This is a proper 'pro' use of the external clock (synchronising two or more devices with the same clock source). If Gustard do something else, it is wrong by design. Perhaps you should Gustard ask a question again to avoid confusion among users or at least signal a problem/limitation to the technical department.

 

[Jake2]

@Flyblues I'd be cautious if I were you about placing too much stock in a single response from Gustard even if it seems black and white on the face of it. There's no end of lost-in-translation conflicting and/or ambiguous responses from Gustard on the R26 thread including a translation error on a key technical DSD/PCM/R2R ladder point in the user manual. More to the point they tend to literally answer only the exact question asked, however narrowly it is framed.

@mgsu I'd be even more cautious about extrapolating from an A26 related Gustard response to the R26.

See for instance Gustard's emailed response to a question as to when a connected external clock is referred or used by the R26's K2 clock synthesiser (noting this is NOT quite the same as asking whether the word clock signal embedded in an I2S signal is used unchanged or reclocked by the DAC):

This is an answer from Gustard regarding the use of a 10Mhz external clock with the R26 and when its clock signal is used to reference the internal K2 synthesizer and when is not used.

When playing PCM

1. PCM NOS: OFF
The improvement provided by the external clock applies to all R26 inputs.

2. PCM NOS: On
The improvement provided by external clock applies to USB and LAN inputs, IIS AES coaxial optical Bluetooth does not apply.

When playing DSD

1.DSD DIRECT: OFF
The improvement provided by the external clock applies to all R26 inputs.

2.DSD DIRECT: ON
The improvements provided by the external clock apply to USB and LAN inputs, IIS AES coaxial optical Bluetooth does not apply.

 

[Zaurux]

I woult try the polysound foam pads also on speakers, they are dirty cheap and available for different weight classes, from 2kg - 200kg

Try Moongel, the best for the price ..;

 

[OCC7N]

Forget all that Im dipping my whole system in mineral oil

 

[FredA]

From this post I revisited the I2S pin layout regarding the clock signal and I could not connect the dots regarding redoing the timing in the DAC.

This got me more curious and did some tests as follows:
1) When connecting my Clock to only my DDC I there was a instant improvement, but connecting only my DAC, (thus no external Clock connected to the DDC) I did not hear that same improvement when using the I2S connecting for input. However for other sources or using Roon over the A26 native bridge I did hear an improvement.
2) When connecting my Clock to the DDC and than adding the DAC did not give further improvement

To get a definitive answer what Clock the A26 uses when an external device is connected over I2S I have contacted Gustard with that question via email.

The exact question I asked:
"If I connect my U18 to my A26 over I2s, will the A26 use the clock from the U18 or reclock the input received internally in the A26 again?

Gustard was kind enough to respond and their answer was unambiguous: The A26 uses the U18's clock when connected over I2S.

I thought it was worth sharing and may be of value and can be in input in a clock selection decision.

Examples where it may help in purchasing decisions
-Most Cyber Shaft clocks have only one connection and this proposition becomes now much more attractive when using an input device, like a DDC or a Streamer to a DAC. In this scenario you do not need to purchase their clock distributor which saves you around $600 (but always can add it later on).
-Also in this scenario you will need only one connection cable and can concentrate funds on one higher-end cable instead of two lower quality ones that add up to the same purchase amount.
-Clocks that have a limited number of square wave connections. The Gustard C18 comes two mind, who has two square wave and two sine wave connections. Connection over square wave are preferred by many. When connecting over I2S you need one connection less so when you previously needed three connections, no it is two.

Good to know. This is not mentioned in the product description, hence my mistake, sorry. For audio-gd, it is as i mentioned however, whatever the input. In fact, the word clock pin is discarded when using i2s.

 

[Flyblues]

This is a correct answer. However in your question external clock is not mentioned. Therefore the answer is limited to a case where external clock not connected/enabled.

I am pretty sure with external clock enabled, clock synthesiser takes over. This is a proper 'pro' use of the external clock (synchronising two or more devices with the same clock source). If Gustard do something else, it is wrong by design. Perhaps you should Gustard ask a question again to avoid confusion among users or at least signal a problem/limitation to the technical department.

I like your thought process but I doubt if adding a external clock changes the situation. One of the characteristics of I2S is that it runs as master (in my set-up DDC) / slave (in my set-up DAC). One of the advantages of I2S is the single master device so there is no issue with data synchronization. Why would a designer circumnavigate one of its advantages and add complexity into its design by eliminating one of the selected protocol its advantages?

For other connections like SPDIF and Toslink synching makes sense as they do not have a master slave design. Taking the TEAC UD-701n as an example: when you add an external clock you have specify if the source via SPDIF or Toslink is connected to the external clock as well as it will than sync. It also says that for USB ad LAN connections it does not matter as the UD-701n will re-clock it.

 

[OCC7N]

I like your thought process but I doubt if adding a external clock changes the situation. One of the characteristics of I2S is that it runs as master (in my set-up DDC) / slave (in my set-up DAC). One of the advantages of I2S is the single master device so there is no issue with data synchronization. Why would a designer circumnavigate one of its advantages and add complexity into its design by eliminating one of the selected protocol its advantages?

For other connections like SPDIF and Toslink synching makes sense as they do not have a master slave design. Taking the TEAC UD-701n as an example: when you add an external clock you have specify if the source via SPDIF or Toslink is connected to the external clock as well as it will than sync. It also says that for USB ad LAN connections it does not matter as the UD-701n will re-clock it.

So you are saying this goes for every ddc and dac. If i2s is used with clock to both dd and dac wont improve on the dac part?

 

[Flyblues]

Good to know. This is not mentioned in the product description, hence my mistake, sorry. For audio-gd, it is as i mentioned however, whatever the input. In fact, the word clock pin is discarded when using i2s.

Great info. So this means different vendors take a different approach in their I2S design and implementation and explains why their is no standardized pin layout yet for I2S.

To me this I2S clock info will be an new qualifier to look at when selecting equipment.

[speculation mode: on]
Please allow me to speculate a bit (and please ignore the bit below if you believe this is not adding any value)

I2S runs in a master slave set up. There can only be one master but there can be multiple slaves. When there are multiple slaves is is called an I2S network.

In an I2S setup the master can be sending device (DDC for example) or the receiving device (DAC for example). However there is a third possibility and that is that an external controller is the master (and in this example both the DDC and DAC becomes slave).

How cool would it be if Audio GD in their I2S design architecture planning for this and developing and external controller with a super precise Clock. That would be a nica addition to their product line.

Note: I have no knowledge of Audio GD's roadmap or design plans or other info other that what is out on the open, so please read this speculation part with a healthy dosis of skeptics and thus with a grain of salt.

[speculation mode of]

 

[Highfive99]

This represents my own experience with Gustard R26 and OCK-2

Since the R26 is connected to SU-6 DDC over I2S i can hear no difference when i run the R26 with OCK-2 or without.

Unfortunately i got attacked from several people here because i made the claim that OCK-2 does nothing to my system.

Thank you for clarifying that Gustard is relying on the clock from the DDC when connected over I2s.

I assume this apply to all synchronous connections?!

I am curious if you set the R26 to use the external clock? It will use the external clock when set to despite being connected via I2S. At least it does with my X26Pro connected I2S from a U18. I suspect the R26 does too. If set to use the ext clock, I find it difficult to believe you would not hear a difference with a OCK-2. An OCK-1 made a very nice difference with my X26Pro+U18 combo with both set to use the OCK-1.