[521994]

isn't it that chord qutest and chord hugo2 has the same dac chip except the latter don't have the amp section? so yeah, that is one very good consideration. Thanks.

That’s right. Chord Hugo and qutest share the exact same dac. The qutest it is only a dac.

 

[fiiom11pro]

I did, and Yggy sounded better over it, so I'm guessing multibit is the way to go with the amp.

I think the THX thing is just marketing to ride on the hype of THX stuff out there. It still has the Benchmark amp sound.

so an r2r it is...

 

[521994]

so an r2r it is...

I had the r2r and now I have the 789. The 789 is just an amplifier while the r2r is much more. Nevertheless from an amplifier point of view the THX AAA789 excels

 

[MacMan31]

With ZMF Auteur and HD6XX, I run my 887 on gain 3 at about 2 O'clock on the volume dial. I then adjust final volume via the remote on my SU-8 DAC, typically anywhere from -18 to -20 ish.

Well I currently have my 789 on medium gain with the volume at max. Then I have the D70 at -32dB. I have plenty of room to go higher on the D70 but I don't want to damage my hearing. I just want to make sure I'm not introducing any negative effects into the sound.

 

[ActuallySparky]

Oh, I preferred the D70 < Bifrost 2 < D90. The tonality was a bit off IMO on the D70 compared to the other two. Bifrost 2 vs D90 was harder. The B2 is warmer and the D90 is faster with a sharper top end. Each has its strength depending on what you prefer. I stuck with the D90 mainly for the features. Volume control for my monitors via XLR and RCA into the Gilmore Lite MKii.

I don't like the sharpness personally - after even short listening sessions I find it wears on my ears. I've been experimenting with non-delta-sigma DACs of late because they sound smoother (particularly in the treble) to me without losing detail. The AKM chips topping uses in the D90 are about the best single bit DAC chips to my ear, but both my Bifrost 2 and my Mojo produce sound I enjoy more and find less fatiguing.

 

[MacMan31]

I don't like the sharpness personally - after even short listening sessions I find it wears on my ears. I've been experimenting with non-delta-sigma DACs of late because they sound smoother (particularly in the treble) to me without losing detail. The AKM chips topping uses in the D90 are about the best single bit DAC chips to my ear, but both my Bifrost 2 and my Mojo produce sound I enjoy more and find less fatiguing.

So you think that overall the Bitfrost 2 or Chord Mojo sound better than the D70 (which I have) or the D90?

 

[ActuallySparky]

So you think that overall the Bitfrost 2 or Chord Mojo sound better than the D70 (which I have) or the D90?

I haven't personally heard the D70 or the D90, so I can't say for sure. Compared to my other AKM and Sabre DACs though, both the Bifrost and Mojo are musical and detailed, yet don't have that sharp/harsh high end. Not to say delta-sigma DACs are unlistenable or anything, but long listening sessions leave my ears and brain more tired. They almost feel a bit more analog, like I'm listening to a record rather than a digital file.

Before hearing a multibit/R2R DAC, I'd always associated that sharpness with detail. DACs that had that sharpness also tended to let me pick out tiny details I'd never heard in tracks, the sound of a hand moving across the back of the fret, or musicians shuffling their feet. Now I've seen that those little details can be there without needing to make everything sharp and piercing with the right DAC.

Caveat: I listen almost exclusively to Redbook FLAC. Multibit DACs are great at Redbook, but if you're into DSD or other high def formats, the difference may be smaller and other DAC technologies may be better suited.

Caveat 2: DACs provide relatively subtle changes. Don't expect to go audition a Bifrost and have a night and day difference where you feel like you've never really heard music before or anything.

 

[MacMan31]

I haven't personally heard the D70 or the D90, so I can't say for sure. Compared to my other AKM and Sabre DACs though, both the Bifrost and Mojo are musical and detailed, yet don't have that sharp/harsh high end. Not to say delta-sigma DACs are unlistenable or anything, but long listening sessions leave my ears and brain more tired. They almost feel a bit more analog, like I'm listening to a record rather than a digital file.

Before hearing a multibit/R2R DAC, I'd always associated that sharpness with detail. DACs that had that sharpness also tended to let me pick out tiny details I'd never heard in tracks, the sound of a hand moving across the back of the fret, or musicians shuffling their feet. Now I've seen that those little details can be there without needing to make everything sharp and piercing with the right DAC.

Caveat: I listen almost exclusively to Redbook FLAC. Multibit DACs are great at Redbook, but if you're into DSD or other high def formats, the difference may be smaller and other DAC technologies may be better suited.

Caveat 2: DACs provide relatively subtle changes. Don't expect to go audition a Bifrost and have a night and day difference where you feel like you've never really heard music before or anything.

Does it really matter if the DAC is not "balanced"? I noticed that aside from being fairly small that the Mojo does not have balance outputs but the Bifrost does have them. Also the Bifrost seems to be upgradeable. The Bifrost would be close to $1,000 Canadian for me. Quite pricy. I paid about $660 Canadian for my Topping D70. It's perhaps worth it for the price but the sound is not "night and day" different from the SDAC-B it is replacing.

 

[ActuallySparky]

Does it really matter if the DAC is not "balanced"? I noticed that aside from being fairly small that the Mojo does not have balance outputs but the Bifrost does have them. Also the Bifrost seems to be upgradeable. The Bifrost would be close to $1,000 Canadian for me. Quite pricy. I paid about $660 Canadian for my Topping D70. It's perhaps worth it for the price but the sound is not "night and day" different from the SDAC-B it is replacing.

Balanced vs single ended is an architecture choice. In the past, balanced was significantly better as it helped reject noise, particularly when transiting longer distances. These days the difference is pretty small, and many single-ended units have very, very low noise. The 789 amp is a great example of this - it's not entirely balanced since the volume pot bridges both inputs to a single ground, yet the amp overall is wonderfully noise-free.

There are those that will swear up and down about the minute improvements that balanced offers in best case scenarios, but with modern gear, it's at best a very subtle choice. If you go get some retro gear it might make a much bigger difference. YMMV, but my advice is to not over-index on something being balanced and instead focus more on the quality, tone, and 'feel' of the sound the gear produces; either you'll like what you hear or you won't.

Try to audition some gear before you buy it - some people don't find DACs to make much of a difference (assuming higher end DACs, not comparing the D70 to the default output of a phone or something), some do. No sense spending a bunch more money if you won't get an enjoyable differece.

If you do want to go for one of them, my preference would actually be for the Mojo in general. Its cheaper, matches my preferences for being a touch warmer than the Bifrost AND it can power headphones without an external amp while on the go. I really like using a 3.5mm > RCA adapter and feeding the Asgard with the Mojo - it makes for very smooth, liquid sounding music with rich tones. Not a perfectly neutral sound by any means, but a fun one. The Bifrost is much more on the neutral side - when paired with the 789 it's almost painfully honest about bad mixes or recording.

 

[MacMan31]

Balanced vs single ended is an architecture choice. In the past, balanced was significantly better as it helped reject noise, particularly when transiting longer distances. These days the difference is pretty small, and many single-ended units have very, very low noise. The 789 amp is a great example of this - it's not entirely balanced since the volume pot bridges both inputs to a single ground, yet the amp overall is wonderfully noise-free.

There are those that will swear up and down about the minute improvements that balanced offers in best case scenarios, but with modern gear, it's at best a very subtle choice. If you go get some retro gear it might make a much bigger difference. YMMV, but my advice is to not over-index on something being balanced and instead focus more on the quality, tone, and 'feel' of the sound the gear produces; either you'll like what you hear or you won't.

Try to audition some gear before you buy it - some people don't find DACs to make much of a difference (assuming higher end DACs, not comparing the D70 to the default output of a phone or something), some do. No sense spending a bunch more money if you won't get an enjoyable differece.

If you do want to go for one of them, my preference would actually be for the Mojo in general. Its cheaper, matches my preferences for being a touch warmer than the Bifrost AND it can power headphones without an external amp while on the go. I really like using a 3.5mm > RCA adapter and feeding the Asgard with the Mojo - it makes for very smooth, liquid sounding music with rich tones. Not a perfectly neutral sound by any means, but a fun one. The Bifrost is much more on the neutral side - when paired with the 789 it's almost painfully honest about bad mixes or recording.

Hmm okay. Well my music preferences are mostly instrumental such as movie scores or classical, jazz and blues also to a lesser extent. But I also like classic rock/pop and even more early 1900s music such as "big band" music. That's what I mostly listen to nowadays. When I was in my teens and 20's I mostly listened to the mainstream "top 40" stuff. But I'm 37 now and my music tastes have changed a lot. The Mojo is $650 Canadian which is about as much as I paid for the D70. Is the quality really worth the price?

 

[ActuallySparky]

The Mojo is $650 Canadian which is about as much as I paid for the D70. Is the quality really worth the price?

That question I can't answer for you! If you can find a dealer or someone in your area with one, spending a little time auditioning it will help you make that decision! For me the Mojo was worth the price I paid for it (about $350 USD used), but your milage/enjoyment may vary significantly.

Here's a better question - do you enjoy music from your D70? Are there limitations it's presenting? If not, upgrading might not add any value to your life.

 

[MacMan31]

That question I can't answer for you! If you can find a dealer or someone in your area with one, spending a little time auditioning it will help you make that decision! For me the Mojo was worth the price I paid for it (about $350 USD used), but your milage/enjoyment may vary significantly.

Here's a better question - do you enjoy music from your D70? Are there limitations it's presenting? If not, upgrading might not add any value to your life.

Well so far I enjoy the D70. You mentioned before about certain DACs or amps being fatiguing. I guess it just means I wouldn't be able to listen for long sessions. Not sure how I would be able to know that unless my body gives me some sort of signal to stop listening. Like perhaps I would feel really tired. The things is that I have enjoyed every DAC and/or amp I have had so far going through this hobby. My first little DAC/amp was the AudioEngine D1, then the Micca Origen+, The Aune X7S paired with the standard SDAC, The O2+SDAC combo, The 789 + SDAC-B combo, the Topping DX7S and now the 789 + D70. I've had numerous headphone along the way as well such as the 6XX and 58X, Focal Elex and Elear, Aeon Flow Closed and Open, HiFiman 4XX. It's been quite the experience so far. Perhaps I'm just looking for some "end game" which I will never find.

 

[ActuallySparky]

Perhaps I'm just looking for some "end game" which I will never find.

This is an unfortunate reality in the audio world. There's always something better - but it's often very expensive, and for very, very little improvement.

On the low end, the differences are huge. Upgrading from plugging headphones directly into your phone to a dedicated DAC/AMP chain like yours will make enormous differences. Upgrading individual components beyond the mid/high range gear you have will result in some changes, but far more subtle ones. The bang for your buck on improvements gets vanishingly small when we start to talk about $1,000 components.

If you're made of money, and this is your one true passion, it might be worth spending the money to upgrade... or it might not be. If you're happy with your current gear, and don't find yourself getting tired of listening to it, then listen to it and be happy. When you get a chance to sample something new, do so - once you've heard it you can decide if it's worth the upgrade costs to get that new sound into your life for longer than the short time you were able to borrow/listen to something.

 

[MacMan31]

This is an unfortunate reality in the audio world. There's always something better - but it's often very expensive, and for very, very little improvement.

On the low end, the differences are huge. Upgrading from plugging headphones directly into your phone to a dedicated DAC/AMP chain like yours will make enormous differences. Upgrading individual components beyond the mid/high range gear you have will result in some changes, but far more subtle ones. The bang for your buck on improvements gets vanishingly small when we start to talk about $1,000 components.

If you're made of money, and this is your one true passion, it might be worth spending the money to upgrade... or it might not be. If you're happy with your current gear, and don't find yourself getting tired of listening to it, then listen to it and be happy. When you get a chance to sample something new, do so - once you've heard it you can decide if it's worth the upgrade costs to get that new sound into your life for longer than the short time you were able to borrow/listen to something.

Well sad to say I'm not made of money. In these troubling times I will have to sell some of my gear. I'm debating whether to keep the 789 + D70 combo or keep the DX7S all in one DAC/amp. I'm also selling my Focal Elears and I may sell my HD58X as I also have the HD6XX. However I do have the Audeze LCD-2C on the way. Bought I used set of those as I have been interested in them for a long time.

 

[holospringfan]

can someone tell me if the THX 789 and monoprice 887 have a lot of differences? the buttons and lay-out seem the seem, except for minor aethetics.
do they sound different? is one better than the other? or are they clones

thank you