[GoodBoy]

You're right. It is words vs words, based on subjective listening. Yet a few posts back, you stated that it was confirmed the 58X uses HD5 series drivers. So which one is it?

To me it is confirmed when multiple reviewers I trust are saying that. Here's another one I recently subscribed to go ahead and jump to 13:05 he's saying 58x is using 595 driver with voice coil changed. I've got no reason not to believe him. This is just one of many users and reviewers who are saying 58x is a HD5 family of headphones, not HD6, which is in line also with my impressions after testing 599 vs 58x back to back

 

[Guidostrunk]

Ok. So I'm supposed to NOT believe the people who actually made the headphones, and stated that the driver is its own design , never used before? Got it. I guess the reviewers are correct. With that said. The 58x should have the 660 driver , the 700 driver , the 5 series driver, and whatever else reviewers have said it was since the 58x release.
Thanks for clearing everything up for us!

 

[GoodBoy]

Why do you say this? Sennheiser is most propably using HD5 derived driver, just slightly changed that's why they can call it "new". It would be "new" even for those who believe it's HD6-series.

 

[PeteMtl]

Any othe recomodation for amp/DAC?
Is it better to buy only amp and connect it to my HRT Music Streamer II, or to buy all in one amp/DAC?

It all depends what you want. I do not know what is your HRT music streamer II. If you like your DAC and want to save money, just go ahead and buy an amp such as the O2, Atom or Magni 3. Some prefer separate units because you may in the future upgrade the DAC or the Amp separately. Some prefer a DAC/amp for convenience or to save money and space. If you like your HRT, why don’t you buy yourself an amp ? JDS and Massdrop have 100$ O2 units, so does Schiit (Magni 3). All these manufacturers have DAC/amp equivalents of their O2 or Magni but they are a lot more expensive, so if you want to save money and are satisfied of your HRT then buy an amp. You may change or add a new DAC later on.

 

[PeteMtl]

Why do you say this? Sennheiser is most propably using HD5 derived driver, just slightly changed that's why they can call it "new". It would be "new" even for those who believe it's HD6-series.

Sennheiser HD58x has a 500 series driver? A HD660S derived driver?, a HD700 derived driver? A brand new driver unused in any other headphones?
What’s the big deal here? Who cares what’s the answer? What’s the point ? Sennheiser is a leader manufacturer in headphones. It proposes many models. It shares its technologies between generations of models. Please stop this nonsense, just listen to their products and make your choice on what you prefer, skip that driver discussion nonsense. In any case it’s a Sennheiser driver developed from their technology, inspired by the previous drivers they developed in the past...
I own the HD598, 600, 6xx and 58x. All of them are good headphones, each has its distinct sound. If you were to ask me I would say that my least preferred headphone in the bunch is the HD598 and my preferred one is the HD6xx. The HD58x is better than the 6xx in some respects, worse in others, it all depends of your taste and listening habits. In my case, I have no developed taste for the 500 series, I use them for TV listening only. I love all 600 series including the HD58x, preferring the 6xx among them, but my preferred headphone that I own, the one that has the most listening time these days (apart from my PXC550 outside of the house and in office) is the Hifiman HE400i plugged in my lounge system (whole audio entertainment systems with Philips CD960/ Mission PCM2/ Arcam Alpha Plus / Rotel 955AX cd players (each with internal TDA1541a multi-bit DACs), SL1200 MK 2 turntable with Ortofon cartridge, Sony 5 CD Carrousel, Onkyo stereo and multichannel streaming receivers, Apple TV 4 and Airport Express units (with internal Cirrus Logic and Wolfson DACs) and Massdrop O2 headphone Amps, three of them, two of which includes the AKM AK4452 DAC).

 

[GoodBoy]

Spare me your drama this has nothing to do with Sennheiser's given cans being good on their own. This is trying to uncover the truth about 58x driver roots. I posted my comparison 58x vs 599 and was immediately attacked for daring to say 58x has HD5 driver not HD6. There are believers in this thread yourself included who without any proof defend "58x = HD6" bs like it's something sacred and obvious. No it's not, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially when it's backed by testing and quoting other reviewers who claim otherwise than you and some other people in this thread. You say 58x belong to 600 series which for me and many others is bs and I don't attack you for this nonsense. I expect the same treatment.

 

[PeteMtl]

Spare me your drama this has nothing to do with Sennheiser's given cans being good on their own. This is trying to uncover the truth about 58x driver roots. I posted my comparison 58x vs 599 and was immediately attacked for daring to say 58x has HD5 driver not HD6. There are believers in this thread yourself included who without any proof defend "58x = HD6" bs like it's something sacred and obvious. No it's not, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially when it's backed by testing and quoting other reviewers who claim otherwise than you and some other people in this thread. You say 58x belong to 600 series which for me and many others is bs and I don't attack you for this nonsense. I expect the same treatment.

if you want the plain truth, the HD58x has a brand new driver never used in any other headphone before, according to Sennheiser. This new 150 ohms driver is derived from the Sennheiser driver technology that previously was used to create the HD660S driver, the HD700 driver, both 150 ohms, and the 300 ohms HD600/650/6xx driver and the HD518,559,569, 579,598,599 lower impedance drivers. You see, all these drivers use Sennheiser’s development and technology ressources that are all derived one from another. Now you have it: a new proprietary driver derived from all the others. Happy now? Everybody was right at the same time. And you know what? The HD58x headphone IS a 600 series headphone using the same molding, cups, enclosure, headband, connectors as the other 600 series, only being designed a little different with a different color scheme, making it unique and proprietary also, while using a different AND similar driver as all other Sennheiser 500, 600 and 700 series are using, but tuned at a 150 ohms impedance core. Happy? Everyone is right on this one: a 600 series headphone slightly different and slightly proprietary, built by a great headphone manufacturer. Isn’t that wonderful? Any other issues that is not covered here? May we then get to the next subject?
How about: are the 600 series and HD25 headphone series still manufactured in Ireland or are now solely manufactured in Romania? Ask me if I care. It’s the same company, same dies, same recipe, same parts, same directives handled by manufacturing employees, same headphone, believe me. Sennheiser wouldn’t jeopardize their reputation over a manufacturing plant origination.
Wow, two issues now solved. Let’s go forward.

 

[hiflofi]

Spare me your drama this has nothing to do with Sennheiser's given cans being good on their own. This is trying to uncover the truth about 58x driver roots. I posted my comparison 58x vs 599 and was immediately attacked for daring to say 58x has HD5 driver not HD6. There are believers in this thread yourself included who without any proof defend "58x = HD6" bs like it's something sacred and obvious. No it's not, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially when it's backed by testing and quoting other reviewers who claim otherwise than you and some other people in this thread. You say 58x belong to 600 series which for me and many others is bs and I don't attack you for this nonsense. I expect the same treatment.

You don't have any proof, and neither do we, nor the reviewers you trust.
The only semblance of proof is somewhat akin to hearsay (get it, "hear" say?). Jokes aside, you're allowed to have your own preference and so is anybody else. I've made a post covering what I think are the differences and similarities between this family of headphones. I happen to prefer one over the others, sonically and from the perspective of value.
You're welcome to your opinion and state it. HF exists for that purpose.

Referring to "reviewers" doesn't bolster your opinion any more than someone elses. I can refer you to Solderdude (DIYAudioHeaven) who has extensive experience with the technical side of headphones, much more refined and complete (imo) as a reviewer than those you refer to. Here are his opinions in his HD58X evaluation.

I typically dislike using someone else's opinion as a proxy for mine, but since we're quoting reviewers, I guess I'm open to it.

 

[PeteMtl]

You don't have any proof, and neither do we, nor the reviewers you trust.
The only semblance of proof is somewhat akin to hearsay (get it, "hear" say?). Jokes aside, you're allowed to have your own preference and so is anybody else. I've made a post covering what I think are the differences and similarities between this family of headphones. I happen to prefer one over the others, sonically and from the perspective of value.
You're welcome to your opinion and state it. HF exists for that purpose.

Referring to "reviewers" doesn't bolster your opinion any more than someone elses. I can refer you to Solderdude (DIYAudioHeaven) who has extensive experience with the technical side of headphones, much more refined and complete (imo) as a reviewer than those you refer to. Here are his opinions in his HD58X evaluation.

I typically dislike using someone else's opinion as a proxy for mine, but since we're quoting reviewers, I guess I'm open to it.

I mostly agree except for the mids quality, in favor of the HD650. It’s their main edge on the other 600 series headphones. Therefore I would suggest:

Mids quality: HD650 > HD600 > HD58X. Sorry, no HD660S rating, I do not own them and cannot comment. I own all the others however and it’s my true opinion regarding mids.

 

[Deftone]

Then how can you say the 650 has the best mids if you haven't heard all the models.

 

[Ichos]

How difficult for him is to understand that this is a 6 series headphone judging only from the appearance and manufacturing?

 

[Ichos]

Then how can you say the 650 has the best mids if you haven't heard all the models.

Or in another view the most colored....

 

[PeteMtl]

Then how can you say the 650 has the best mids if you haven't heard all the models.

I think I’ve made it clear that I haven’t rated the HD660S on purpose. My purpose is to be honest. Many people including Tyll have been commenting mids of the HD660S. I leave that to them for now. My rating therefore excludes the HD660S for now. And between the HD600/650/58X I gave you my appreciation and rating of the mids. You may agree or not agree, I do not own the truth.

 

[PeteMtl]

Or in another view the most colored....

in my opinion, they have the most natural timbre of all. If the mids of the HD660S are similar to the HD58x, then I stand by my opinion of the HD650. But unfortunately I cannot comment on the HD660S for the moment. Between the three left (600/650/58x) I am of the opinion that the HD650 has the more natural timbre in the mids region. You may agree or not agree, that’s fine.

 

[GearMe]

From Tyll -- who actually did measure (and listen to) headphones

His point is related to this discussion given that it puts some context around the importance of 'Ear Cup' acoustics vs drivers.
Please see his 300Hz square wave response of the HD 600 (top), HD 660 S (middle), and HD 700 (bottom) measurements below

Per Tyll..."The thing to me that's very interesting is that, assuming it is an HD 700 driver [from Jude's initial assumption], how little the driver performance itself effects the performance of the headphone as a whole. In the 300Hz square wave responses above you can clearly see the HD 660 S response (middle) is very much like the the HD 600 response (top) and is quite unlike the HD 700 response (bottom)...and that's a very good thing. I found the HD 700 a very bright headphone with an uncontrolled treble. Just goes to show you how much the overall acoustic of a headphone is largely due to the acoustics of the ear cup and has less to do with the driver itself."

Additionally, he compared the impedance curves for the HD660 and HD700 (graphic also below) and provides his thoughts regarding the 'new' driver design of the HD660.

SO...I look at these graphs and definitely see the measurement similarities that Tyll calls out -- hopefully everyone can sorta agree on this (probably not)



Makes me wonder...

- If it the HD600 and HD660 have substantially different drivers, why do they measure so closely?
- Could it be that Tyll's right about the impact of enclosure / 'ear cup' acoustics (whether the driver is an HD700 , HD6, or HD5 or something in between)?
- Why do the impedance numbers for the HD700 and the HD660 track almost identically if the drivers don't have some significant design commonality?
- Is it possible that the HD660 and the HD700 have the same/very similar drivers?
- Do the measurements of the HD58X parallel those of the HD660 enough that they also have some significant design commonality (i.e. did Senn tweak the HD660 driver to create another "New" one for the HD58X)?​

Certainly all/any of this is possible.

In general, I guess I'd 'trust' the manufacturer more regarding it being a 'New' driver than any subjective reviewers' opinions. That said, manufacturers can and do stretch the truth for marketing reasons (i.e. how do I sell this $500 set of cans [HD660] when it uses the same/similar driver as these $140 cans [HD58X])?

I tend to look at it more like Tyll (PeteMtl, etc.) do. Senn is continuously evolving their product line and the components within their products and that's a good thing.



TBH, I really don't care if they use tin foil for drivers if they sound good and are a good value (to me)!

Personally, I've had the HD58X's for over a month and would agree with the folks that say it's a tremendous set of cans for $140. I say this having owned the HD800, 700, 650 & 600 for several years.

I've also owned a set of renewed HD660s (by Sennheiser Outlet) and sent them back...weren't worth the $277 (muffled). Side note, to my way of thinking, manufacturer renewed cans should be totally up to snuff from a sound perspective -- unless Senn is just trying to recoup $$$ from returns/QC issues/etc. which I highly doubt they'd do.


Most importantly...hopefully we're enjoying the music along the way and not totally lost in agonizing over gear minutiae.