Magnepan Mini Maggie Desktop Speaker System

[rrahman]

What is the recommended power draw to really make the mini maggies sing? I taake it I could not just use the Mjolnir sourced by Gungnir to drive the MMs pretty well? It hink it is good for about 15W IIRC. Other option I am thinking of is the Odyssey Cyclops amp but will need to see about whether or not it would drive a sub also. Is the bass panel really insufficient or are these [above] comments relative to weak bass sans the bass panel?

Thanks!

I think current is more important than watts and I think class a/ab sounds better. That being said they aren't too finicky, >80 watts should be find for reasonable volumes. I think odyssey cyclops would probably sound excellent with them.

I bought a powered subwoofer so I can't comment on sub power recs. I think the dwm does not extend deep enough, so IMO I think it is necessary.

 

[rrahman]

Forgot to mention I do have a pair of Audeze LCD 3s with the Schiit stack but looking at the prices of the new Audeze phones I see they are asking 2900 for the LCD3s now and frankly I feel that is ridiculous. They do sound great but not $3000 great and that means looking into alternatives. I have been intrigued with the mini magnepans for quite some time... Just researrching to see what other hardware needs to go with the mini maggies so they would work the best they can.

I know it's kind of silly to compare speakers and headphones, but the LCD3 w/ schiit stack is in a completely different league than the mini Maggie's. It's not even close.

 

[commtrd]

 

Forgot to mention I do have a pair of Audeze LCD 3s with the Schiit stack but looking at the prices of the new Audeze phones I see they are asking 2900 for the LCD3s now and frankly I feel that is ridiculous. They do sound great but not $3000 great and that means looking into alternatives. I have been intrigued with the mini magnepans for quite some time... Just researrching to see what other hardware needs to go with the mini maggies so they would work the best they can.

I know it's kind of silly to compare speakers and headphones, but the LCD3 w/ schiit stack is in a completely different league than the mini Maggie's. It's not even close.

As in the LCD3s not nearly as nice sounding as the MMs? Of course the sound stage should be vastly improved with the speakers obviously but the phones sound pretty good. Just researching what it would take to buile a really nice desktop system.

 

[jazzfan]

 
As in the LCD3s not nearly as nice sounding as the MMs? Of course the sound stage should be vastly improved with the speakers obviously but the phones sound pretty good. Just researching what it would take to buile a really nice desktop system.

 
If you are looking to build a good Mini Maggie system, you are definitely asking the right person for advice.  I'm not exaggerating when I say rrahman has assembled what may very well be "the" best desktop speaker system on the planet!
 
Also, I wholeheartedly agree with rrahman regarding the need for a subwoofer, if you expect to achieve anything close to realistic bass from the Mini Maggie system.

 

[rrahman]

   
If you are looking to build a good Mini Maggie system, you are definitely asking the right person for advice.  I'm not exaggerating when I say rrahman has assembled what may very well be "the" best desktop speaker system on the planet!
 
Also, I wholeheartedly agree with rrahman regarding the need for a subwoofer, if you expect to achieve anything close to realistic bass from the Mini Maggie system.

Why thanks.  Praise from Ceasar.  I used alot of your advice to build it.

 

[rrahman]

 
As in the LCD3s not nearly as nice sounding as the MMs? Of course the sound stage should be vastly improved with the speakers obviously but the phones sound pretty good. Just researching what it would take to buile a really nice desktop system.

Sorry I wasn't clear.  I think the LCD3 trumps the MMs, by a substantial margin.  But then again, I love the LCD3's more than I probably should.

 

[sonance]

I finally properly wired up my Mini Maggies (they've been sitting in the boxes unused since I moved several months ago). While they sound great overall, I was a little disappointed in the bass-light sound using just the 2 sats + DWM - i.e no separate sub. The system is being driven by a pre-amp  + amp combo from PS Audio, borrowed from my main system after I changed that system around.
 
Unlike many, I'm truly using it as a desktop system. The 2 sats are around about 3 ft from me and about 10" from the wall. I have the DWM under the desk but tilted up towards me. The tilt is because the crossover is so high (~200hz?) the DWM is more directional by far than the average sub which usually cuts over < 100hz. I know it only goes down to 40hz (theoretically) but it sounds bass-light until I turn the volume up (and even then..) I am used to relatively low-level listening since I moved to an apartment, but I do like listening to speakers from time to time.

The speakers are wonderfully clear and other than the slightly narrow sweet spot, image well (until there's a voice dipping down below 200hz). But they have a slightly 'hi-fi' sound with the treble sounding... not hot, but a little prominent. Should I change the jumpers, and should that be both the tweeter jumpers and the DWM?How do I know what the rating is on the included jumpers?

 

[rrahman]

  I finally properly wired up my Mini Maggies (they've been sitting in the boxes unused since I moved several months ago). While they sound great overall, I was a little disappointed in the bass-light sound using just the 2 sats + DWM - i.e no separate sub. The system is being driven by a pre-amp  + amp combo from PS Audio, borrowed from my main system after I changed that system around.
 
Unlike many, I'm truly using it as a desktop system. The 2 sats are around about 3 ft from me and about 10" from the wall. I have the DWM under the desk but tilted up towards me. The tilt is because the crossover is so high (~200hz?) the DWM is more directional by far than the average sub which usually cuts over < 100hz. I know it only goes down to 40hz (theoretically) but it sounds bass-light until I turn the volume up (and even then..) I am used to relatively low-level listening since I moved to an apartment, but I do like listening to speakers from time to time.

The speakers are wonderfully clear and other than the slightly narrow sweet spot, image well (until there's a voice dipping down below 200hz). But they have a slightly 'hi-fi' sound with the treble sounding... not hot, but a little prominent. Should I change the jumpers, and should that be both the tweeter jumpers and the DWM?How do I know what the rating is on the included jumpers?

Congrats on the purchase.  The DWM is a woofer not a subwoofer, thats why the cross over is so high.  I understand your problem though, the system is pretty bass light w/o a sub.  Placement is key, but it sounds like you are pretty constrained.  The resistors are labeled and they help, but I don't think you'll get the sound your looking for w/o a proper sub.

 

[sonance]

  Congrats on the purchase.  The DWM is a woofer not a subwoofer, thats why the cross over is so high.  I understand your problem though, the system is pretty bass light w/o a sub.  Placement is key, but it sounds like you are pretty constrained.  The resistors are labeled and they help, but I don't think you'll get the sound your looking for w/o a proper sub.

Thanks - I do realize that the DWM is not a proper subwoofer, but -3db or -6db @ 40hz is pretty typical for a desktop 2.1 "subwoofer", so I was expecting a little more bass. As it turns out, the 1 ohm resistors helped a lot, as did reversing the polarity on the DWM. I noticed one half was out of phase when running a pink noise sweep. I also changed the height of the sats. The combination of the three is that the sound is much more in balance. I will still buy a subwoofer, I just need to figure out if my pre-amp will do balanced out  + unbalanced at the same time, to avoid  running a splitter to the subwoofer. I'm looking for a very fast sounding sealed sub that can keep up with the mini maggies. Maybe a Rythmik or Velodyne?

 

[jazzfan]

@sonance,
 
There are many good subwoofer options available to consumers across all budgets.  In addition to the companies you mentioned, Hsu Research, SVS and JL Audio all have sealed subwoofer offerings that would mate well with the Mini Maggie.  If money is no object, I'd look to auditioning the JL Audio Fathom series F113 (I wouldn't need any larger for my small room.)  But if you are looking for something at a lower price point look into the SVS SB13-Ultra.  rrahman has had good results with this highly rated subwoofer.  HomeTheaterShack has comparisons of a number of subwoofers here.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of the treble, as I too found the treble a bit aggressive.  But as I noted in my Mini Magnepan review, I was able to ameliorate the issue with the use of 1 ohm 10W resistors on the tweeter panels.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you describe the treble as 'hi-fi' sounding. Perhaps you can elaborate with examples.

With the Mini's properly setup and positioned (mine are 14" from the wall and angled in at ~40 deg), I find the treble to be light, detailed and fast.  Good recordings of cymbals are rendered with a lifelike quality that is typically only found in highend speakers.  Perhaps a combination of placement and the use of resistors can address this issue in your system.  The Maggies are reveling of amplifier differences as well.  I do find paring the Mini with my Yamaha MX-1000 produces a much more relaxed, open and effortless listening experience at all volume levels. 

The "true" sweet spot for me not slightly narrow, but is incredibly narrow.  Any deviation in head position, an inch or so in any direction, can destroy an otherwise wide an deep sound stage image.  This is readily apparent with many solo vocal recordings.  But if you are in the sweet spot, the soundstage takes on an immersive three dimensional quality that I so enjoy.  This is a quality that is unique to the speaker listening experience (unless headphones are used in conjunction with the Realiser).  I may be wrong about the narrow sweet spot, but I believe this is a quality that is common among Magnepan ribbon tweeters because this was also true for the larger Magnepan I owned previously.

Lastly, at least for me, a quality subwoofer is mandatory accessory for the Magnepan Mini.  The good sub will provide the balance that is lacking in an otherwise excellent speaker system.  With the addition of a sub, I think you'll find that the overall characteristic of the system will be transformed into something quite special.

 

[Maelob]

I believe any near field speaker set up will have a narrow sweet spot due to the close proximity of the speakers. 

 

[jazzfan]

  I believe any near field speaker set up will have a narrow sweet spot due to the close proximity of the speakers. 

 
Excellent point.  It's very likely the effect is exacerbated by the fact that this is a near-field application.

 

[sonance]

  @sonance,
 
There are many good subwoofer options available to consumers across all budgets.  In addition to the companies you mentioned, Hsu Research, SVS and JL Audio all have sealed subwoofer offerings that would mate well with the Mini Maggie.  If money is no object, I'd look to auditioning the JL Audio Fathom series F113 (I wouldn't need any larger for my small room.)  But if you are looking for something at a lower price point look into the SVS SB13-Ultra.  rrahman has had good results with this highly rated subwoofer.  HomeTheaterShack has comparisons of a number of subwoofers here.

I agree somewhat with your assessment of the treble, as I too found the treble a bit aggressive.  But as I noted in my Mini Magnepan review, I was able to ameliorate the issue with the use of 1 ohm 10W resistors on the tweeter panels.  On the other hand, I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you describe the treble as 'hi-fi' sounding. Perhaps you can elaborate with examples.

With the Mini's properly setup and positioned (mine are 14" from the wall and angled in at ~40 deg), I find the treble to be light, detailed and fast.  Good recordings of cymbals are rendered with a lifelike quality that is typically only found in highend speakers.  Perhaps a combination of placement and the use of resistors can address this issue in your system.  The Maggies are reveling of amplifier differences as well.  I do find paring the Mini with my Yamaha MX-1000 produces a much more relaxed, open and effortless listening experience at all volume levels. 

The "true" sweet spot for me not slightly narrow, but is incredibly narrow.  Any deviation in head position, an inch or so in any direction, can destroy an otherwise wide an deep sound stage image.  This is readily apparent with many solo vocal recordings.  But if you are in the sweet spot, the soundstage takes on an immersive three dimensional quality that I so enjoy.  This is a quality that is unique to the speaker listening experience (unless headphones are used in conjunction with the Realiser).  I may be wrong about the narrow sweet spot, but I believe this is a quality that is common among Magnepan ribbon tweeters because this was also true for the larger Magnepan I owned previously.

Lastly, at least for me, a quality subwoofer is mandatory accessory for the Magnepan Mini.  The good sub will provide the balance that is lacking in an otherwise excellent speaker system.  With the addition of a sub, I think you'll find that the overall characteristic of the system will be transformed into something quite special.

 
Thanks for the detailed response. My placement sounds similar, although you do have your speakers angled more than I do. I believe that at this point, the treble issues I'm hearing are probably only in relationship to overall system balance.
I see you're using a 'classic' amp - I've heard good things about the MX-1000. I think the comment regarding the sub is spot-on, I'm reading up on the subs you mentioned and reading through reviews on the linked sites. Unfortunately the F113 is not an option - it would be completely out of balance budget-wise (I believe they run $5k+), plus I think it would be overkill for a 1500 ft^3 office/computer room. The SVS SB13-Ultra is very tempting. I'm going to do a little more research and buy a sub for sure, I'll probably post updated impressions after. I am also somewhat intrigued by the option of dual DWMs, but I think it will still never fill in the bottom octave and only partially fix the overall bass impressions, so I will try the sub first.

Near-field listening does have its challenges (re: narrow imaging and placement) but it can also be rewarding when done right, I still have high hopes for this system when I'm done.

 

[jazzfan]

System Update
 
The HSU STF-2 has served its time in my Mini Maggie system.  It has been replaced with a single JL Audio Fathom f113.  The STF-2, a good sub for its price point ($499 MSRP), sometimes struggled with demanding low bass passages (even at low volumes).  The Fathom f113, on the other hand, breezes through the most difficult tracks completely unconstrained, without a hint of compression or loss of control. The control exhibited by the f113, is analogous to (for those who have been around audio long enough to remember) the sure footed tracking performance of what was arguably the trackability "king" - the Shure V15 cartridge.
 
I'm not sure if it's feeding a signal directly to my amp vs through the Hsu built in crossover, or the control and clarity provided by the f113, or a combination of the two, but the Mini has never sounded better.  Now there is an amazing sense of clarity with almost every recording.  For example, with Are You Shpongled? on the 1998 Shpongle Falls album by Shpongle, listening to this track can be immensely immersive.  One can clearly hear many layers of sometimes almost imperceptibly subtle detail (distant whispers, triangles hidden in the backgound, synthesized reverberation, etc.) painted across an expansive soundstage that extends beyond the outer edges of the speakers.  On this track, the difference between the two subs in my system is akin to the difference between viewing a film in a traditional theater vs the experience of viewing a film in an IMAX theater.  But not just any IMAX theater, but rather an "domed" IMAX 70mm theater.  Again, depending on the recording, the effect can be very immersive.  But I suppose this is to be expected with a sub costing 8x the price of the HSU.  For those seeking a more affordable alternative, I believe the SVS SB13-Ultra provides comparable performance (some might argue even better in some areas) to the f113, albeit at a more attractive price point.
 
For now, my computer desktop speaker system is complete.  With the addition of the JL Audio Fathom f113, the Mini Maggie is now paired with a sub that more than matches its speed and accuracy.  I'm looking forward to enjoying this system for many years to come.

 

[sonance]

Sorry to necro an older thread, but I wanted to add some comments since I purchased a subwoofer. I found a relatively inexpensive Paradigm subwoofer that had good reviews off Craigslist, because I wanted to test the effect of a subwoofer before I took a plunge on a more expensive subwoofer. In a word - wow. The mini maggie is greatly enhanced by filling in the bass hole. To the point that I think for most music types, it's disingenuous to say that 'some people may not feel the need for a sub'. While technically true, I don't think anyone hearing a properly dialed in MM + DWM + Sub combo with a good sub would prefer it without the sub.
 
The tricky part is integration, but even without achieving absolute perfection, having the sub present helps a lot. I think a really fast, low distortion sub (in the 4 figures $-wise) would sound even better, because I can easily tell the difference between the DWM and the sub, but like I said, turning off the sub makes the sound much more brittle and lightweight. I used some calibration discs and a sound meter to get a rough idea of the updated in-room frequency response, and despite a slight dip in the mid bass due the the 200hz handoff to the subs, it is suprisingly smooth (better than my professionally calibrated living room). I now find the treble and overall balance perfect. These really do sound like a much more expensive set of speakers now, and not easily put to shame by the high end headphones sitting next to them. Highly recommended.