[Polky74]

@Andrew_WOT

The pieces to try the mod are these two and they cost 46 euros together, we have tried it with dozens of people and there wasn't even one who said that it doesn't sound much better. You try... it costs less than a USB cable which is useless compared to this mod. When and if you try it, the order to connect it is as follows:
1) Connect the power bank to the USB under the hub (the only one that accepts the
current)
2) Connect the hub to your mobile phone/tablet and also your PC if you take the one I posted (which does not pass current to the streamer)
3) Connect the dongle to the hub

Hub:

https://www.amazon.it/dp/B0C2YN8F7Z?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Powerbank:

https://www.amazon.it/INIU-Compact-...ectronics&sprefix=iniu,electronics,223&sr=1-7


P.S. If you don't notice improvements in the sound, send me your PayPal email and I will refund the 46 euros (and you can keep both the hub and the power bank)

 

[Tiax]

Unless you have some measurements to prove it, it's just unscientific made up gibberish which honestly makes no sense at all

Ouch. You've just described at least the half of all posts on head-fi

 

[musicday]

I might try this myself since I like the W4 quite a lot still. It is well known that the USB dac dongles sound better and fuller when connected to a laptop compared to a mobile phone.
I can hear the difference.

 

[Polky74]

I might try this myself since I like the W4 quite a lot still. It is well known that the USB dac dongles sound better and fuller when connected to a laptop compared to a mobile phone.
I can hear the difference.

Everything will get darker around the dongle... night will fall. It will increase cleanliness, definition, power, separation, soundstage. It will become a perfect desktop DAC in all respects with related performance. And this applies to all dongles, not just the W4, I've tried the mod with all of them and now I'm also waiting for the ifi GO bar to try it with it too. Anyone who has tried it can report his testimony here. Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/Aceele-𝟏𝟎𝐆𝐛𝐩𝐬-Extension-Adapter-Chromebook/dp/B0C2YN8F7Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=10N6N5002BLXQ&keywords=Aceele&qid=1698319761&sprefix=aceele,aps,323&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

P.S. Note that by not allowing current to pass through its output cable (to be connected to the streamer), unlike other hubs it can also be easily used to connect it to a USB on your PC (obviously with a type C to type A adapter)

 

[Reader]

I might try this myself since I like the W4 quite a lot still. It is well known that the USB dac dongles sound better and fuller when connected to a laptop compared to a mobile phone.
I can hear the difference.

Now you got a great point, one thing hub would help is power. Same W4 connect to my phone was unable to draw as much power as when it connect to my laptop. This whole clean up signal thing is unproven but the power difference is easily measured.

 

[Polky74]

Now you got a great point, one thing hub would help is power. Same W4 connect to my phone was unable to draw as much power as when it connect to my laptop. This whole clean up signal thing is unproven but the power difference is easily measured.

The cleanliness of the signal results from one fact... when the dongle is connected directly to the phone, it receives both data and power from it. Instead in this case the cables that travel in the hub start from different sources, the data one comes from the long cable which is connected to the phone (without electricity) and the one below connected to the power bank which exclusively carries the electricity. This explains the cleanliness of the signal that is not mixed with the current. This is thanks to how this hub is made. But obviously not all hubs are like this. Most mix signal and current the same way as when you plug the dongle directly into your phone.

 

[Reader]

the data one comes from the long cable which is connected to the phone (without electricity)

That can't be done. Unless your hub takes optical input and convert it to USB, which in most cases is a bad idea.

 

[Ferdinando1968]

I conducted some tests and performed some measurements using a simple USB voltmeter.

Below you see the output voltage from a USB cable connected to a powerbank:

Below you see the same cable as before powering the USB hub (blue light on):

Below you see the 'data cable' of the USB hub (the one I would connect to the smartphone):

As you can see, the USB voltmeter doesn't even turn on, that is, it doesn't receive power (while at the same time the USB hub is still turned on and powered by the power bank).

From a circuit point of view, it is quite simple to implement
a circuitry to achieve this result.

It is sufficient to insert the equivalent of a diode in series with the wire containing the positive pole in the data cable (the one that connects to the smartphone), placing the anode (of the diode) towards the USBC connector to connect to the smartphone.

This prevents power from the USB hub from flowing to your smartphone.

The smartphone is still able to send the digital signal
(contain the data) to the USB hub, and, potentially, also its power supply, which would conflict with that of the hub.
This is prevented by specific circuitry (what I earlier called 'diode equivalent').

So, from a superficial analysis, I don't see any conceptual impediments to the functioning of this HUB.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

This is how all "dynamic-powered" USB hubs work, not just this one, you can try any powered hub and see the difference.

Dynamic-powered hubs are hubs which can work as bus-powered as well as self-powered hubs. They can automatically switch between modes depending on whether a separate power supply is available or not. While switching from bus-powered to self-powered operation does not necessarily require immediate renegotiations with the host, switching from self-powered to bus-powered operation may cause USB connections to be reset if connected devices previously requested more power than available in bus-powered mode.

But you still have ground and power lines connected, and data lines still transfer all the noise from the host, even if power is not drawn, there is no galvanic isolation to have "no electricity", data bits are carried as electrical signal via USB.

If your source has weak or dirty USB power, splicing power and ground line from the cable and connecting 5V power source to it could be a more portable solution. Otherwise having mini dongle with huge supplemental hub makes very little sense, just get yourself battery powered unit like ifi Gryphon, it will have smaller footprint.

I have used bunch of powered USB hubs before, they helped with too many USB powered devices, but I've never experienced sound improvement with PC and especially already "clean power" battery operated phone.

 

[Polky74]

This is how all "dynamic-powered" USB hubs work, not just this one, you can try any powered hub and see the difference.



But you still have ground and power lines connected, and data lines still transfer all the noise from the host, even if power is not drawn, there is no galvanic isolation to have "no electricity", data bits are carried as electrical signal via USB.

If your source has weak or dirty USB power, splicing power and ground line from the cable and connecting 5V power source to it could be a more portable solution. Otherwise having mini dongle with huge supplemental hub makes very little sense, just get yourself battery powered unit like ifi Gryphon, it will have smaller footprint.

I have used bunch of powered USB hubs before, they helped with too many USB powered devices, but I've never experienced sound improvement with PC and especially already "clean power" battery operated phone.

If you don't believe that the sound of the W4 can improve I certainly can't force you to try it or invite you to my house... I'm too far away, but know that you're missing out on a nice improvement... then freedom comes first. For $16 (how much it costs here) you could try it... but do as you think is right (obviously). I don't know how the hubs you tried with the W4 work... but this one works very well.

 

[Bosk]

Recently I've been lucky enough to participate in the L&P W4 Australian Tour organised by Damz87.

I had planned to write a full review of the unit but work has been rather hectic of late so instead I'll merely present some brief impressions.

The W4 immediately impresses with its' enviable build quality. The volume wheel in particular stands out not only for its' usability, with decisive tactile clicks reminiscent of those found on Astell & Kern players, but also the visual distinctiveness it adds to help differentiate the W4 from other dongles. Speaking of visuals, the slanted screen was something I found surprisingly easy to adjust to, with the screen's commendable resolution making reading volume levels a snap.

The dongle itself feels extremely light and built for genuine portable use, yet finished to a standard that again reminded me of high end DAPs.

I've been lucky enough to compare the W4 directly to Cayin's RU7 & iFi's Go Bar 10th Anniversary and will frame my sonic impressions within this context.


W4

Sonically, to my ears the W4 is the most technically-accomplished dongle on the market. By which I mean its' resolution, imaging, background blackness & soundstage dimensions are as good or better than any I've heard from a dongle thus far.

However there is a downside as no audio product is perfect, which comes in the form of the W4's fairly flat tuning which feels somewhat reference in nature. I wouldn't say it goes far enough in this direction to be considered genuinely 'boring' per se, but the tuning is definitely less exciting by nature than that of the two other dongles here. Though I typically prefer more lively tunings, I wouldn't say this aspect of the W4 would dissuade me from purchasing one.



Go Bar 10th Anniversary

Immediately noticeable is the Go Bar's much higher background noise/hissing, which is very evident when no music is playing, and also during quiet passages of music.

The Go Bar's best attribute is its' excellent bass texture, although its' bass definitely isn't as tight or fast as the W4's. Dynamics are also impressive, but its' stage is considerably flatter than the W4's and resolution appears lower also. The W4 is definitely brighter, almost making the Go Bar feel dark by comparison. Though bass feels very impressive on the Go Bar I am surprised how readily it feels like a step down from the other two dongles. It also feels nearly twice as heavy, which impacts portability.

RU7

The RU7's great strength is its' midrange, which is forward, warm & rich with superb tonality. RU7's stage is not quite as spacious as the W4's, treble isn't as prominent either nor the background as black. Bass output is fairly similar between them, with W4's bass feeling a little bit tighter with slightly better texture, however the RU7 boasts more overall bass quantity and it pervades the overall presentation more.

The W4 is definitely the more reference-sounding dongle with a cleaner sound, and its' soundstage is also slightly deeper & wider. Whereas the RU7 feels more like a midrange specialist, focusing your attention on vocals and perhaps delivering more musical involvement as a result, but compromising the rendition of technicalities in the process. If you value technical performance over tonality I would opt for the W4, though there is an organic naturalness to the RU7 I find particularly alluring.


CONCLUSION

It's amazing how far dongles have come in a relatively short space of time and the W4 has truly thrown down the gauntlet to the rest of the competition. For portable use with a smartphone there's no better way to obtain genuinely impressive sonic performance without all the bulk of a separate device.

 

[NYanakiev]

Anyone here having issues with the W4 and their iPhone 15/15 Pro (now with usb-c)?
I am using a W2-131 and while the display lights up when connected to my phone, I can't get any sound through the W2 at all.

Cheers!

 

[ttt123]

Everything will get darker around the dongle... night will fall. It will increase cleanliness, definition, power, separation, soundstage. It will become a perfect desktop DAC in all respects with related performance. And this applies to all dongles, not just the W4, I've tried the mod with all of them and now I'm also waiting for the ifi GO bar to try it with it too. Anyone who has tried it can report his testimony here. Thank you.

https://www.amazon.com/Aceele-𝟏𝟎𝐆𝐛𝐩𝐬-Extension-Adapter-Chromebook/dp/B0C2YN8F7Z/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=10N6N5002BLXQ&keywords=Aceele&qid=1698319761&sprefix=aceele,aps,323&sr=8-2-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

P.S. Note that by not allowing current to pass through its output cable (to be connected to the streamer), unlike other hubs it can also be easily used to connect it to a USB on your PC (obviously with a type C to type A adapter)

This mod, or configuration was intriguing enough that I ordered the hub. Received the hub today, and gave it a try. Using Sony WM1AM2 as source, DDHiFi cable TC09S , to W4 EX. I went back and forth multiple times, trying the W4 EX straight into the Sony, and then through the hub to the Sony. My experience is the same as @Polky74 . I find an "increase cleanliness, definition, power, separation, soundstage".
- Bass more defined/solid
- Instrument notes more defined, and stand out better from the background. An improved "flow" to the music
- Vocals more expressive, holographic, and stage is more solid.

In general, music was more involving, and clear, like a very slight haze had been removed from it. On first listen, not sure what the difference was. On more detailed listening, the difference was that the music was more natural, a better flow, and more immersive.

So for the small price of the hub, it is a definite and worthwhile improvement. Would probably not use it outside, but for home use, it is absolutely worth the extra trouble of adding the hub and battery.

 

[Polky74]

This mod, or configuration was intriguing enough that I ordered the hub. Received the hub today, and gave it a try. Using Sony WM1AM2 as source, DDHiFi cable TC09S , to W4 EX. I went back and forth multiple times, trying the W4 EX straight into the Sony, and then through the hub to the Sony. My experience is the same as @Polky74 . I find an "increase cleanliness, definition, power, separation, soundstage".
- Bass more defined/solid
- Instrument notes more defined, and stand out better from the background. An improved "flow" to the music
- Vocals more expressive, holographic, and stage is more solid.

In general, music was more involving, and clear, like a very slight haze had been removed from it. On first listen, not sure what the difference was. On more detailed listening, the difference was that the music was more natural, a better flow, and more immersive.

So for the small price of the hub, it is a definite and worthwhile improvement. Would probably not use it outside, but for home use, it is absolutely worth the extra trouble of adding the hub and battery.

Thank you for leaving your impressions...
I'm glad you liked the mod... besides this it's friendly to our streamers' batteries...

 

[Polky74]

The ifi GO bar with the mod becomes simply spectacular... and its consumption is no longer scary...