Luxury & Precision (LP) Portable USB DAC/AMP W1 and W2 (The new W2-131 Version is Available, Related Info on Post #1)

[twister6]

Anyone use Samsung s22 / s22 ultra with w2 / w2-131? I use s22u and my w2-131 keep disconnecting and reconnecting while it is plugged. I have no issues at all with another dongle(ibasso dc03) on the s22u, nor w2-131 on oneplus 7. Not sure if it is compatibility issue or anything to do with settings on my s22?

This is related to your cable. I have S22, no issues, but I'm also not using their stock cable. L&P stock cable is not the best quality. You can get aftermarket cables from ddhifi, oe audio, and even cayin and lotoo cables are better quality.

 

[rarewolf]

I think the statement regarding RU6 in the RU6 thread is a bit mistaken on how it is phrasing 'balanced'. The fact is, as far as what technical regarded as being balanced or not, RU6 has indeed a balanced output and the way it is implemented is actually one of the most common way of how balanced output are done in many devices these days. It is no more fake or real than many other balanced output out there IMO.

Correct me if I’m wrong but, the RU6 implementation may provide the power you want from a balanced output, but because it’s implemented only at the output you don’t get the full benefit of the noise reduction that would come with it having been implemented at all stages.

I didn’t buy into the RU6 primarily because its noise rules out any DAC precision greater than 16bits.

 

[Hyde00]

What settings did u use for the comparison?

Both were running EQ normal, DSP normal, High Gain, Filter Fast, and Tone 02.

W2-131 default came with newest firmware, W2 I upgraded to newest firmware.

W2-131 naturally is slightly more powerful than W2 so I just volume match the best as I could. So I could still be off by a bit but that was my general impression.

Does the w2 131 feature a fully balanced 4.4 out? Just read that the competitor cayin ru6 although features a 4.4 out but not fully balanced …

Post in thread 'Cayin RU6: R-2R USB Dongle DAC with Head-Amp'
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cayin-ru6-r-2r-usb-dongle-dac-with-head-amp.960113/post-16883432

Correct me if I’m wrong but, the RU6 implementation may provide the power you want from a balanced output, but because it’s implemented only at the output you don’t get the full benefit of the noise reduction that would come with it having been implemented at all stages.

I didn’t buy into the RU6 primarily because its noise rules out any DAC precision greater than 16bits.

Yeah I think rarewolf is correct. You'll get balanced power, but you don't get the separation / sound stage benefit from a fully balanced chain from beginning to end. RU6 only duplicate the signal at the end to make it balanced.

To my understanding W2 and W2-131 are "fully balanced" in the sense that it start from earlier in the chain (i.e. dac chip).

Reason for RU6 not balanced all the way is due to cost, size, and power consumption. I think Andy from Cayin explained that in order to do fully balanced they need to double the amount of resistors (because R2R, and currently already at 96 resistors). And it would increase the power draw above the iPhone threshold (probably ok for PC but on phone it's not good). Also hard to fit 96 resistors in such small package, now imagine double the amount of resistors. Also more parts = cost more.

For DAPs they can probably do true balanced though, or like desktop dac/amp.

 

[rarewolf]

What are the appropriate considerations when choosing high gain over low? For example, for IEMs, which is better… volume 70 at low gain, or volume 50 at high gain? Does it really make a difference with the L&P W2?

 

[AlexCBSN]

What are the appropriate considerations when choosing high gain over low? For example, for IEMs, which is better… volume 70 at low gain, or volume 50 at high gain? Does it really make a difference with the L&P W2?

For me it depends upon the iem and the impact it has over the dynamics. For example with any Audiotechnica I prefer high gain. They hold their ground and benefit from the extra power to feed the bass region and have some rumble. But with Sony iems I prefer lower gain, they are quite sensitive (ex850st and n3bp. ex1000 benefits a lot from high gain) IMR's with big dynamics do love the extra juice but can become muddy, acoustunes LOVEEEEE POWER, and so on

Planars do need juice though most ba's doesn't show much change IME

 

[rarewolf]

For me it depends upon the iem and the impact it has over the dynamics. For example with any Audiotechnica I prefer high gain. They hold their ground and benefit from the extra power to feed the bass region and have some rumble. But with Sony iems I prefer lower gain, they are quite sensitive (ex850st and n3bp. ex1000 benefits a lot from high gain) IMR's with big dynamics do love the extra juice but can become muddy, acoustunes LOVEEEEE POWER, and so on

Planars do need juice though most ba's doesn't show much change IME

I use the 4.4mm balanced output for my planars. For IEMs that scale better with respect to power, I would think choosing a balanced 4V output over SE would be a totally different consideration than which gain setting? Am I wrong?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

I only heard clear difference from switching to High gain with Smabat ST-10s Gold (150 Ohm) earbuds, they were very anemic in Low.

 

[Hyde00]

What are the appropriate considerations when choosing high gain over low? For example, for IEMs, which is better… volume 70 at low gain, or volume 50 at high gain? Does it really make a difference with the L&P W2?

I'll be honest, I only tested this on day one of getting W2-131 so I could be wrong...... but I remember it just doesn't sound right at low gain for my headphone? Again it's been a while so I could be wrong. But generally speaking for other amps I've noticed the following, again not always but most of the time:

- High gain seems to open up layering and soundstage
- High gain timbre sound more correct
- High gain sound more dynamic

For W2-131 me memory is fading but my guess is that maybe it just didn't sound the right when volume matched at low gain for my headphone. Different gear react differently so it is best to test with your gear too.

For me the most noticeable thing is listening for human voice, a lot of the time the voices just don't sound right when using low gain (most notably with Project Polaris and Playmate 2). Only exception is that RU6 I liked low gain better lol. Again test yourself since your iem/headphone might react differently. Good luck!

 

[rlw6534]

The gain setting doesn't change the power characteristics or dynamics of the amp, it just changes the volume. If you run out of volume at low gain, switch it to high. It's that simple. And yes, louder generally sounds better to most ears, but it does't matter whether it's done by gain or the volume knob.

 

[Hyde00]

The gain setting doesn't change the power characteristics or dynamics of the amp, it just changes the volume. If you run out of volume at low gain, switch it to high. It's that simple. And yes, louder generally sounds better to most ears, but it does't matter whether it's done by gain or the volume knob.

I feel like in theory it should be the case, where low and high gain should sound identical when volume matched.

But in actuality from my testing I find they sound different when volume matched. And I've tried it on all the amps I owned and almost all of them sound different on high and low gain. Hence why everytime I buy a new amp this is the first thing I test.

Then again everyone's ear and headphones are different so I'm only speaking from my own experience.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Great study on the subject
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/study-headphone-amp-gains-low-or-high.5495/

 

[Hyde00]

Great study on the subject
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/study-headphone-amp-gains-low-or-high.5495/

This I agree, most measurement seems to show low gain measure better.

But I owned Schiiit Asgard 3 and Vali 2+ at one point and the sound difference between low gain and high gain was quite obvious. Like low gain sound very in your face and almost no sound stage and high gain open up sound stage tremendously. This was tested on Denon D2000.

Again probably would get different results on sensitive iem or high impedance headphone (say like 300 Ohm). But I don't have those to test lol.

Although luckily this is something that is easy to test and anyone can give it a try actually.

 

[rarewolf]

Great study on the subject
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/study-headphone-amp-gains-low-or-high.5495/

So, for a given volume level, you should expect more noise using high gain… but how much noise, even nil, is amplifier dependent…

 

[Faustchz]

A sincere question: do you guys know any DAP that sound exactly like the W2?

I ask this because my recent purchases of DAPs have been awful. I have had the Hiby R3Pro, Shanling Q1, and Hiby New R6 for my IEMs. I voltage-matched all of them around 6mV so that volume differences are controlled and minimized. All of these DAPs are surprisingly lack of bass compared to the W2, let alone my desktop amp. All of them sound really shallow and light-weighted, especially the most expensive New R6, it makes wired IEM sound like Bluetooth. I keep an old Fiio M3Pro which sounds much closer to the W2 than any of those newer gears. It at least has the right amount of bass. I am considering ibasso DX240 or DX300, but really want to make sure they sound at least as good the W2.

 

[Hyde00]

A sincere question: do you guys know any DAP that sound exactly like the W2?

I ask this because my recent purchases of DAPs have been awful. I have had the Hiby R3Pro, Shanling Q1, and Hiby New R6 for my IEMs. I voltage-matched all of them around 6mV so that volume differences are controlled and minimized. All of these DAPs are surprisingly lack of bass compared to the W2, let alone my desktop amp. All of them sound really shallow and light-weighted, especially the most expensive New R6, it makes wired IEM sound like Bluetooth. I keep an old Fiio M3Pro which sounds much closer to the W2 than any of those newer gears. It at least has the right amount of bass. I am considering ibasso DX240 or DX300, but really want to make sure they sound at least as good the W2.

I share the same sentiment, most gear these days are tuned to be neutral it's actually quite hard to find gear with an emphasis on bass like W2.

Hmmmm is there anything preventing you from just plugging your W2 into the DAP? Or just too many items to carry?