Luxury & Precision (LP) Portable USB DAC/AMP W1 and W2 (The new W2-131 Version is Available, Related Info on Post #1)
Jun 19, 2021 at 7:42 AM Post #3,181 of 5,297
I like the Focal Celestee with the W2 but they are not foldable and I do EQ them. If you only have the stock lightning cable, I’d definitely try one of the aftermarket ones like Penon or the Apple camera connector.
Thanks! I'm also thinking about Celestee, haven't found a demo unit to try them yet. Could you suggest any more options with more neutral or just slightly warmish mid-centric, detailed sound and portable (or preferably even foldable) design which could be easily driven by W2?

When I tried A2C I liked them quite a lot, but even 85+ high gain balanced W2 wasn't enough to feed them properly.
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 9:19 AM Post #3,183 of 5,297
Want to share some interesting new products, especially for those who are considering purchasing a small dongle like the Lotoo PAW S1.

Latest update: my own review and comparison between Lotoo S1, LP W1, and LP W2.

Update: see post #43 for a first impression! :)

Update 2: see post #180 for English user manual and instructions.

Update 3: from Andrew @MusicTeck
“As far as we tested, there is no issues with W1 since it only draws 90mA, but W2 draws 110-120mA and iPhone has a limitation of 100mA to support external devices. So, when using W2 with iPhone 11 or 12 and W2 volume is over 70, it draws more current than iPhone allows and volume gets choppy and cuts off, even with that white cable. We suggest you set your iPhone to max volume, set W2 gain high and lower W2 volume below 70. That is when there are no issues with iPhone. Android phones and windows laptops don't have this issue. Only iPhones.”

——————————————————
FW Update Info

Since most of the users cannot
download FW files directly from their official webpage, I have downloaded these files and then upload them to google drive so that everyone can access them.


General FW Update Steps (only for Windows 7/10 ATM).
  1. Download the FW update package (google drive link).
  2. Connect W1/W2 to your PC.
  3. Install the driver (LuxuryPrecision_setup_WHQL_20210510.exe and Windows 7 drivers if necessary).
  4. Install and run the FW update tool (ISP_Tool.exe) with FW file (W1_V1.0.2.6_AS.bin).
  5. In case the upgrade fails or your W1/W2 is bricked, install this rescue driver.
You only need to install the driver and FW update tool once. For future FW updates, you only need to load the latest FW file to the FW update tool.


Latest FW: W1_V1.0.2.6 (06032021)

  • Added IE800s, SE846 EQ
  • Added the asynchronous UAC connection mode (check out this article for what this is)
  • Fixed the bug of no sound from DSD files after switching EQ

Previous FW: W1_V1.0.2.1 (03082021)
  • Add the Xelento-tuned EQ
  • Add the Self-adapted UAC connectivity mode
  • Fix W2's balanced DSD output issue.
  • Improve connection stability.
To check your current FW version. Unplug your W1/W2 first. Then, keep holding the shorter of the two bottoms and plug the device into your PC. The device’s screen will display your current FW version.

—————————————————
Some Preliminary Product Info

Luxury & Precision (LP) is launching its Portable USB DAC/AMP W1 and W2; W1 has 1 DAC chip and W2 has 2. For some of you who may be hearing this brand for the first time, LP made its name by producing high-end R2R DAP P6.

Both devices come in two outputs: 3.5mm and 4.4mm. The 3.5mm output is also a SPDIF output, allowing it to be used purely as a DAC and connect with other AMPs.

What is insane about these two products is the crazily low noise levels and huge output power. I cannot post the link to the other forum, but if you are interested just google the product names and you will see the measurements. Long story short, based purely on the measurements, it outperforms many desktop devices... Of course, we will need to wait for the actual products to tell whether it sounds good or not.

Some data for its power level (the third party measured numbers rather than OEM-supplied numbers):
Balanced:
32Ω 235mw
Single-ended:
32Ω: 125mw

W1 retails for 199 USD and W2 retails for 299 USD. Both W1 and W2 are now ready for order! Their advertisements suggest that the prices already include two cables in the box: one USB C-to-C and one USB C-to-lightening. The attached images are for W2. The detailed info for W1 can be found on Musicteck.
Can W1_V1.0.2.6_AS.bin on the google drive link be used for W2 too?
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 9:20 AM Post #3,184 of 5,297
Jun 19, 2021 at 11:53 AM Post #3,185 of 5,297
A long over-due comparison between Lotoo S1, LP W1, and LP W2.

WechatIMG1053.jpeg


Finally got some time to do a serious comparison among the three. Thanks to Andrew @MusicTeck for sending me the S1 and W1 for a review. I own the W2 myself.

There has already been enough illustration of the packaging and accessories of these three products, so I will go directly to the functionality and sound. If you think some additional comparisons are necessary, let me know and I will try to enhance this post.

The three products share a lot of things in common, yet are also quite different from each other. I will divide this review into two parts: the common, and the difference.

The common

The Physical Aspect.

  • Size and weight-wise, the three are comparable. S1 might be slightly longer, but you really wouldn't realize this too much when holding them on hand. From left to right are: S1, W2, and W1.
WechatIMG1051.jpeg


Functionality:
  • They all include a set of EQs for various genres of music and certain application contexts (like Game). In general, I have found the EQ on all three devices to change the sound in quite a noticeable way; however, whether the change is desirable is a relatively subjective question. To me, Lotoo has done a slightly better job here in tuning the EQ. But, after some use, I end up just going with the normal/no EQ setting in all three devices as this seems to be the best all-rounder setting.
  • They all have two outputs: 3.5 and 4.4. Even today, this does not seem standard in all the dongles, so I am glad that all three devices have both balanced and unbalanced output.
  • All of them have a LED screen to show the current status of the device, and a couple of side bottoms to adjust the volume and change settings. IMO, these settings should have been standard in the dongles at this price range (around $200), but I am surprised to find that this is still not the case. In daily use, the screen and physical bottoms are extremely useful.

The difference.

There are lots of differences between the three devices. I will start with probably the most important aspect: The sound comparison. I will then cover the functionality and price/value aspect of them.

Sound comparison

I want to first talk about the general differences between the Lotoo dongle versus the two LP dongles. The comparison between W1 and W2 will come afterward.

Lotoo vs. LP

In a direct comparison, the sound from S1 appears to be analytical and a bit "explicit" to the listener. The good side of this is that it is easier for you to capture the emotion of the singer/performer, and some people will call this to be musical. The downside is that it could appear to be a bit too aggressive as S1 has a bit more emphasis on treble, which could cause it to be a bit fatiguing to some people. Me personally, I enjoy the emotional impact of listening to devices, so this tuning suits me very well. For other people, I have clearly encountered listeners to feel the opposite.

On the other hand, the sound from W1/W2 is smooth, with greater textures, and very good for long listening sessions. What impressed me most is that this smoothness is achieved WITHOUT sacrificing the technical aspects of the sound such as great details, soundstage, very black ground, and so on. This is directly enabled by the excellent measurement of both W1 and W2, with W2 to be an even more technically impressive option. I think LP has done an excellent job here in finding out a way to make a technically excellent device non-fatiguing. Trust me, this wasn't easy.

W1 vs. W2

So, how do the two LP dongles compare to each other? Most generally, I would say they go in the same direction. Similar tuning of being smooth, and overall good technical performance between the two. However, upon listening, you can still clearly tell apart the two devices. W2 has a refined sound compared to W1. Things from W2 do not get muffled by the smoothness. Soundstage and details are both better on W2. Overall, W2 is a clear step up from W1.


Finally, I want to have a general comment on pairing with IEMs. I have found all three devices to be pretty versatile. They usually perform quite well regardless of what I throw at them: from $100 gears to $6000 ultra flagship Traillii. Although I have come to notice that the more expensive the IEM is, the better W2 tends to pair with it. In particular, Traillii and W2 make a wonderful pairing based on many user reports. Regarding a specific pairing, I think you can try to judge from the sound signature of these devices and consider whether the device, in a combination with the signature of your IEM/headphone, will suit your taste.

Functionality comparisons:

W1 and W2 have a wider set of settings compared to S1. W1 and W2 have the following extra settings:
  • Whether you want the screen to be auto-off;
  • Whether you want to be able to control volume from your source device (the "HID KEY");
  • The ability to change different filters; they do change the sound on W1/W2 in a noticeable way.
  • Some tuning specifically designed for certain IEMs. The first such pairing tuning has been released - it is for the Xelento.
  • W1/W2 can produce SPDIF digital output. A lot of people ask why this is useful. Well, if you want to connect your PC to a high-end dedicated DAC, it is very likely that the PC noise can pass through to your DAC through the USB transmission. W1/W2, in this SPDIF mode, can serve as the "filter" in-between and reduce the signal noise entering into your DAC from your PC.
Between W1 and W2, the two devices have an almost identical set of setting options (EQ, screen-on option...) except for one thing: the Tune function. W2 has tune 01 and tune 02 that is supposed to fit different kinds of music, while you do not have this on W1. That is, even within W2, LP provides you with two ways to slightly adjust how the device sounds overall. Mr. Wan told me that the hardware implementation is actually different between tune 01 and 02 on W2, so it is something more than just an EQ.

MQA compatibility

I will not comment on whether MQA is worth it or not, just on the functionality. S1 is now MQA compatible with the latest firmware. W1 and W2 have no plan to implement MQA.

Line-out (LO) mode?

A lot of people ask about whether W1/W2 has a LO mode and can serve as a dedicated source. The answer, after tying it with my external Amp Cayin C9, is a "yes and no". The "yes" aspect is that you can indeed turn the volume to 100 and then feed it into C9's line-in mode. W1/W2 will not create much distortion (assuming you are connecting to a PC, not an iPhone), and the sound is actually pretty enjoyable. The "No" aspect is that it is actually not a "true" LO that completely bypasses the amp function of W1/W2. Hence, you can hear a bit of the "double" amping from doing this: the LP sound signature from W1/W2's amp, and the external amp's sound signature.

It is worth noting that I also try this in Lotoo by turning its volume to 100 and connecting it to C9. The result is very poor. Very soft and distorted sound.


The value

S1 is priced at $165 and comes without a usbc-lightening cable (available at $25 separately). W1 is priced at $199 and W2 at $299; both W1 and W2 include a lightening cable. So, in some sense, S1 and W1 are at the same price, and W2 is apparently more expensive. In the comparison of value, I will agree with Alex's assessment here. Between S1 and W1, it is probably better to go with S1 as it has an overall better sound. However, if you are into the smooth, textured sound, I will strongly recommend you invest a bit more to get W2 as it is a significant step up in technical performance.

Verdict

I think we are at a wonderful time where we have these amazing dongles that can deliver such shockingly good, high-quality sound. They are so convenient to use and many people have found them using these high-quality dongles more so than their dedicated DAPs, especially when using them together with their PC/laptop. In terms of pure SQ, I think these small dongles, especially W2, have no issue in challenging mid-tier DAPs at $700-$1000. However, dedicated DAPs and dongles will always have different use cases as DAPs can work on their own, have a screen, have their own music storage, and so on. Still, options like W1/W2 are highly desirable if you want to get a more handy listening option and do not want to sacrifice in SQ. It is still shocking to me that how much the dongle market has evolved in just a couple of years, and how good these dongles have become.
Thanks for the review, I'm still undecided whether I should go for the W1 or the W2 - or maybe neither as I probably don't need one at this point in time :) as working from home at the moment and use my desk top set up.

Is there a night and day difference between the W1 & W2 sound wise which is easy to hear?

Thanks
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 11:57 AM Post #3,186 of 5,297
Thanks for the review, I'm still undecided whether I should go for the W1 or the W2 - or maybe neither as I probably don't need one at this point in time :) as working from home at the moment and use my desk top set up.

Is there a night and day difference between the W1 & W2 sound wise which is easy to hear?

Thanks
I think so, the sound of W1 is much less refined and a bit “too smooth” to my ears compared to W2.

With that being said, for most of gear comparisons, I tend to find that the difference is most salient in direct A/B. If you just pick up a W1 and start listening, you will probably find it to sound very good too.
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 1:35 PM Post #3,187 of 5,297
Thanks! I'm also thinking about Celestee, haven't found a demo unit to try them yet. Could you suggest any more options with more neutral or just slightly warmish mid-centric, detailed sound and portable (or preferably even foldable) design which could be easily driven by W2?

When I tried A2C I liked them quite a lot, but even 85+ high gain balanced W2 wasn't enough to feed them properly.

When I researched the Celestee I almost ended up buying the Shure 1540, which tick some of your boxes (although they are not foldable, they are quite light). I also considered the Denon AH-D5200. I haven’t tried either, with or without the W2, but they are efficient enough I think that the W2 should be able to drive them balanced. I do own the Austrian Hi-x55, they fold, are lightweight, very detailed, and can be driven by the W2, but the frequency response is *very* unusual and they require heavy EQ-ing.
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 1:48 PM Post #3,188 of 5,297
I think so, the sound of W1 is much less refined and a bit “too smooth” to my ears compared to W2.

With that being said, for most of gear comparisons, I tend to find that the difference is most salient in direct A/B. If you just pick up a W1 and start listening, you will probably find it to sound very good too.


Thanks, most appreciated👍
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 3:02 PM Post #3,189 of 5,297
Received my balanced cable yesterday for the Phonak 232. Forgot who recommended going with balanced but I owe you a big thank you. It sounds much more better with the new cable. It’s really helped with iPhone volume and clipping at high volume. Between the new cables, W2 and the DDHiFi interconnection it really added new life to the Phonak’s. Been listening to Apple Music since it doesn’t seem to drain the battery as much as neutron.
 
Jun 19, 2021 at 3:53 PM Post #3,190 of 5,297
Could you send a photo of how you have that set up? I’m intrigued…
Apologies for the delayed reply. I actually didn't see your post. Lol. But yea, you can set it up like this:
A9926499-8BE1-4163-B708-201ABBA723C3.jpeg


But I normally have my iDefender in series to provide external power to the W2. I've found it to sound better this way:
B8B0F730-B90E-43FD-95F5-2CB779F8A2EC.jpeg
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 9:57 AM Post #3,191 of 5,297
Fellows! I just spotted a teaser from LP regarding their protective case for W1/W2. More details coming tomorrow.

The Chinese says: magmatic, full grain leather, hand crafted protective case.

Very curious about the magnetic aspect of it. Does this mean that we can attach it to our phones with the case? :thinking:

FE39FCFA-911E-4368-95D9-7FFA18BAC1DD.jpeg
 
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Jun 20, 2021 at 9:59 AM Post #3,192 of 5,297
Also, worth nothing that this design follows the case design from their flagship DAPs P6 Pro.
12906F08-0EB4-45AB-A742-DFC7BF013AAA.jpeg
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 11:52 AM Post #3,194 of 5,297
And the bright yellow, or even green, cover will ensure i don’t have a repeat of the scare I had yesterday when I couldn’t find it cos it is so TINY! 😆
 
Jun 20, 2021 at 12:52 PM Post #3,195 of 5,297
Fellows! I just spotted a teaser from LP regarding their protective case for W1/W2. More details coming tomorrow.

The Chinese says: magmatic, full grain leather, hand crafted protective case.

Very curious about the magnetic aspect of it. Does this mean that we can attach it to our phones with the case? :thinking:

FE39FCFA-911E-4368-95D9-7FFA18BAC1DD.jpeg
That does look really classy - now to see how much it will cost....
 

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